Genesis with Bill Bruford

[Powderfinger]

What if Bill had joined Genesis full time, with Phil moving primarily to vox and only an occasional drum spot? Imagine the records they might have made.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLNCGG8YnZc

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FrFytItybk

[sitboaf]

I have more fun imaging Genesis with a proper replacement for Steve Hackett.

Jan Akkerman from Focus?

Steve Rothery?

[Powderfinger]

I have more fun imaging Genesis with a proper replacement for Steve Hackett.

Jan Akkerman from Focus?

Steve Rothery?

 

Oh yeah. I'm in agreement with this statement. That Hackett towers over Stuermer is perhaps nowhere more evident than in the 1982 reunion concert. I don't know if the gulf between them says more about Hackett, or more about Stuermer, but boy can you hear Hackett's absence—until he joins in on the final two numbers:

 

[drbirdsong]

Bruford or a good Hackett replacement might have made for some really interesting Genesis music, but Phil Collins' pop leanings (intentional or not) and Banks/Rutherford's willingness to embrace it probably could not have been stopped.

[Chicken hawk]

I like Genesis regardless as long as Phil is there! Saw them many times in Boston.

[custom55]

I like Genesis regardless as long as Peter is there! Saw them a few times in NY/NJ.

[sitboaf]

Bruford or a good Hackett replacement might have made for some really interesting Genesis music, but Phil Collins' pop leanings (intentional or not) and Banks/Rutherford's willingness to embrace it probably could not have been stopped.

Undoubtedly the pop was coming. Would Bruford have stuck around much into that period? Highly doubtful.

But It's really fascinating to imagine what directions they might have gone in the late '70s if they had taken a "Yes-like" approach to changing members.

While Rutherford was fine as a bass player and surprisingly polished as a rhythm guitarist, he just stunk as a lead. Maybe that is what allowed Banks to be the "lead" instrument most of the time. Having a guitarist with a strong personality would have changed a lot of the dynamics.

Edited August 8, 2013 by sitboaf

[H. P. L.]

Reading Bill's autobio, it looks like he wanted to add creative input to the writing, while the others were perfectly fine and were looking "just" for a session drummer. That's why it ended.

[Tony R]

The Gabriel years were fantastic and Phil was as much a part of that creativity as anyone else. Much as I admire Bruford he would never really have fit in either version of the band. King Crimson was the perfect fit for him stylistically, and Phil was the perfect fit for Genesis.

[circumstantial tree]

According to Bill Bruford, he wasn't satisfied with playing in Genesis.

[Powderfinger]

Thanks to you guys who added some insight into Bruford's stint with the group. I didn't know that he was interested in their creative process, or that he was dissatisfied with his short tenure.

 

And while we are on the topic, I actually think Rutherford is an underrated bassist. Why do I never see his bass talents discussed? Was he simply obscured by the monumental talent surrounding him? Hackett, Collins, Gabriel, and Banks are often cited as being among the most brilliant, innovative artists at their respective positions. Mike, by contrast, sometimes seems to get treated as an afterthought: "Oh yeah, and Mike Rutherford on bass."

 

Not unlike Geddy, Mike juggled bass, guitar, bass pedals, and vocals—often in the same song—to varying extents. I mean, I wouldn't put him in league with Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, or John Entwistle. But he was pretty damn good, nonetheless.

[sitboaf]

Thanks to you guys who added some insight into Bruford's stint with the group. I didn't know that he was interested in their creative process, or that he was dissatisfied with his short tenure.

 

And while we are on the topic, I actually think Rutherford is an underrated bassist. Why do I never see his bass talents discussed? Was he simply obscured by the monumental talent surrounding him? Hackett, Collins, Gabriel, and Banks are often cited as being among the most brilliant, innovative artists at their respective positions. Mike, by contrast, sometimes seems to get treated as an afterthought: "Oh yeah, and Mike Rutherford on bass."

 

Not unlike Geddy, Mike juggled bass, guitar, bass pedals, and vocals—often in the same song—to varying extents. I mean, I wouldn't put him in league with Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, or John Entwistle. But he was pretty damn good, nonetheless.

 

Well, he was "pretty damn good" enough to play with Genesis, anyway…and that's high praise.

I prefer to focus on the pretty songs he wrote, and some rhythm parts that approached sublime.

If you can write the gorgeous Your Own Special Way and Deep in the Motherlode, and also carry songs as diverse as Driving the Last Spike and Throwing it All Away, you're OK in my book.

[Retrospective]

To be fair, Phil wasn't the only one leading the pop charge... if you listen to the other members of the group's solo albums, they were bound to go towards pop whether Phil was in (or into it) or not. But, I'm okay with it.

 

Rutherford is an underrated bass player, I agree... but I do think his song writing talents exceed his bass playing skills. He definitely carried his weight. :ebert:

[Powderfinger]

According to Bill Bruford, he wasn't satisfied with playing in Genesis.

 

I read some comments on Youtube that claim the members of Genesis weren't all that impressed with him either. Apparently the problem was that Bruford wanted to improvise more and not be bound to a dictated pattern or composed set of fills, that he insisted upon doing his own thing, thus causing tension and difficulty live by missing cues and at times almost blowing changes. The same person, if I understand correctly, also claims that Bruford wouldn't unleash the thunder when they needed it.

 

Have you guys read something to this effect? Is Bruford's bio worth purchasing?

[bathory]

To be fair, Phil wasn't the only one leading the pop charge... if you listen to the other members of the group's solo albums, they were bound to go towards pop whether Phil was in (or into it) or not. But, I'm okay with it.

 

Rutherford is an underrated bass player, I agree... but I do think his song writing talents exceed his bass playing skills. He definitely carried his weight. :ebert:

 

even hackett had a pop period in the 80s

[Retrospective]

To be fair, Phil wasn't the only one leading the pop charge... if you listen to the other members of the group's solo albums, they were bound to go towards pop whether Phil was in (or into it) or not. But, I'm okay with it.

 

Rutherford is an underrated bass player, I agree... but I do think his song writing talents exceed his bass playing skills. He definitely carried his weight. :ebert:

 

even hackett had a pop period in the 80s

 

Eeeexactly.