Presto vs. Snakes And Arrows

[Cyclonus X-1]

Snakes & Arrows demolishes Presto. The Pass is my favorite song on Presto by miles, but I'd take two S&A songs (Workin' Them Angels and Armor and Sword) over it. Both albums have quite a few "pretty good" tunes, but S&A's lot is stronger overall, and S&A sounds better too.

[TheAccountant]

This is a very tough matchup as both are very good albums.

 

Presto has the title track, The Pass, Scars, Available Light, Red Tide, Anagram, Chain Lightning. Unfortunately it also has some rather blah songs.

 

S&A has Working Them Angeles, The Main Monkey Business, The Larger Bowl, Hope, Far Cry, Armor & Sword, We Hold On & The Way the Wind Blows. Unfortunately it also has Mal Nar, Spindthrift, Good News First and some rather blah songs. By a narrow margin Presto gets my vote. For some reason the album just flows better and feels better together.

 

Like them both a lot however.

[New World Kid]

I think Presto and Snakes and Arrows have the same amount of great songs. Far Cry for The Pass. Armor and Sword for Presto. Available Light for The Way the Wind Blows. War Paint for The Main Monkey Business.

 

But Presto's worst is better than Snakes and Arrows. Anagram and The Larger Bowl are pretty much a tie for awful. But beyond that, the worst for Snakes and Arrows is just worse.

 

Presto has no yodeling. It definitely has that going for it.

 

But both of these albums are probably in my top 10 Rush albums, so I'm clearly only pin-pointing the weaknesses here to explain my opinion.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Jul 20 2012, 12:53 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 11:46 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 20 2012, 02:05 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 01:58 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 01:28 PM) Oh jeez, no contest. Presto has 1 amazing song (The Pass), one pretty great one (Chain Lightning), and the others go from meh to pretty bad. Snakes & Arrows has 3 amazing songs (the first three), three pretty great ones (the instrumentals), two very good songs (Spindrift, TWWB), and five pretty disposable ones, but still it's a Far Cry from the mediocrity that plagues most of Presto. Snakes & Arrows by a HUGE margin. Available Light alone is better than any track on Snakes.   Presto is light years better!!!!   and Spindrift basically blows. Hahaha!   You almost had me there for a second. I thought you lost your mind and were serious. Available Light better than anything on S&A. Just about the worst song on Presto to boot!   Good show!     Always glad to entertain. I'll be here ny whole life. Try the veal. I did. It was very tender.   Available Light I think is perhaps Rush's most overrated song. That's Armor and Sword       -----     I voted for Presto. Most enjoyable album, 2nd only to Hemispheres in terms of awesomeness. Did you actually say Signals was their worst album and Armor & Sword their most overrated song all in the same day?   Dude, TRF break - time to reassess your life.

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 05:17 PM)

QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Jul 20 2012, 12:53 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 11:46 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 20 2012, 02:05 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 01:58 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 01:28 PM) Oh jeez, no contest. Presto has 1 amazing song (The Pass), one pretty great one (Chain Lightning), and the others go from meh to pretty bad. Snakes & Arrows has 3 amazing songs (the first three), three pretty great ones (the instrumentals), two very good songs (Spindrift, TWWB), and five pretty disposable ones, but still it's a Far Cry from the mediocrity that plagues most of Presto. Snakes & Arrows by a HUGE margin. Available Light alone is better than any track on Snakes.   Presto is light years better!!!!   and Spindrift basically blows. Hahaha!   You almost had me there for a second. I thought you lost your mind and were serious. Available Light better than anything on S&A. Just about the worst song on Presto to boot!   Good show!     Always glad to entertain. I'll be here ny whole life. Try the veal. I did. It was very tender.   Available Light I think is perhaps Rush's most overrated song. That's Armor and Sword       -----     I voted for Presto. Most enjoyable album, 2nd only to Hemispheres in terms of awesomeness. Did you actually say Signals was their worst album and Armor & Sword their most overrated song all in the same day?   Dude, TRF break - time to reassess your life.   you're right armor and sword isn't overrated, it just plain sucks

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 03:27 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 05:17 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Jul 20 2012, 12:53 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 11:46 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 20 2012, 02:05 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 01:58 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 01:28 PM) Oh jeez, no contest. Presto has 1 amazing song (The Pass), one pretty great one (Chain Lightning), and the others go from meh to pretty bad. Snakes & Arrows has 3 amazing songs (the first three), three pretty great ones (the instrumentals), two very good songs (Spindrift, TWWB), and five pretty disposable ones, but still it's a Far Cry from the mediocrity that plagues most of Presto. Snakes & Arrows by a HUGE margin. Available Light alone is better than any track on Snakes.   Presto is light years better!!!!   and Spindrift basically blows. Hahaha!   You almost had me there for a second. I thought you lost your mind and were serious. Available Light better than anything on S&A. Just about the worst song on Presto to boot!   Good show!     Always glad to entertain. I'll be here ny whole life. Try the veal. I did. It was very tender.   Available Light I think is perhaps Rush's most overrated song. That's Armor and Sword       -----     I voted for Presto. Most enjoyable album, 2nd only to Hemispheres in terms of awesomeness. Did you actually say Signals was their worst album and Armor & Sword their most overrated song all in the same day?   Dude, TRF break - time to reassess your life.   you're right armor and sword isn't overrated, it just plain sucks yeah, but i expect that from you since you hate most modern rush. not from actual current fans of the band.

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 05:30 PM)

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 03:27 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 05:17 PM) QUOTE (Tommy Sawyer @ Jul 20 2012, 12:53 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 11:46 AM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 20 2012, 02:05 PM) QUOTE (Tick @ Jul 20 2012, 01:58 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 01:28 PM) Oh jeez, no contest. Presto has 1 amazing song (The Pass), one pretty great one (Chain Lightning), and the others go from meh to pretty bad. Snakes & Arrows has 3 amazing songs (the first three), three pretty great ones (the instrumentals), two very good songs (Spindrift, TWWB), and five pretty disposable ones, but still it's a Far Cry from the mediocrity that plagues most of Presto. Snakes & Arrows by a HUGE margin. Available Light alone is better than any track on Snakes.   Presto is light years better!!!!   and Spindrift basically blows. Hahaha!   You almost had me there for a second. I thought you lost your mind and were serious. Available Light better than anything on S&A. Just about the worst song on Presto to boot!   Good show!     Always glad to entertain. I'll be here ny whole life. Try the veal. I did. It was very tender.   Available Light I think is perhaps Rush's most overrated song. That's Armor and Sword       -----     I voted for Presto. Most enjoyable album, 2nd only to Hemispheres in terms of awesomeness. Did you actually say Signals was their worst album and Armor & Sword their most overrated song all in the same day?   Dude, TRF break - time to reassess your life.   you're right armor and sword isn't overrated, it just plain sucks yeah, but i expect that from you since you hate most modern rush. not from actual current fans of the band. certainly no secret that i don't care for more than 1/2 the new album, s & a, but vt is ok. 90's well, enough said.

[spock]

PRESTO - by far. I try, REALLY try to like S&A and I do love Far Cry (and always will), but then it just wanders off into meh until the end. Oh, sure, I give it a spin every once in a while (it took me years to love Counterparts), but PRESTO has always remained strong. But, ya know, I've come to the conclusion that most albums are 50% music and 50% what's going on in your life when you're getting acclimated to it. So I have good memories linked to Presto - PLUS IT HAS AVAILABLE LIGHT!!!

 

Was soooo happy to hear them play the song, PRESTO, live during TM tour!

 

 

[jnoble]

Presto by a mile. Yes it sounds thin and dated by comparison but at least it's listenable. The songs are memorable and have proper intro-verse-verse-chorus arrangments. Oh, and MELODYS. Geddys singing on Presto is some of the best he ever recorded.

 

This was years before Neil forgot how to compose lyrics that could be put into a good song and Geddy lost his range and had to resort to yodeling and awkwardly shoehorning in the words. And the whole "wall of distorted overlayered guitars and bass" sound that started and has been getting worse since TFE.

Edited July 20, 2012 by jnoble

[arushhead]

presto! cuz all songs r gud cumpared two snakes n sparrows lol

[LedRush]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   And, indeed, RTB did improve on Presto in every possible way. (that, of course, is an opinion, albet one supported by Rush fans' response.)

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (jnoble @ Jul 20 2012, 06:04 PM)

Presto by a mile. Yes it sounds thin and dated by comparison but at least it's listenable. The songs are memorable and have proper intro-verse-verse-chorus arrangments. Oh, and MELODYS. Geddys singing on Presto is some of the best he ever recorded. This was years before Neil forgot how to compose lyrics that could be put into a good song and Geddy lost his range and had to resort to yodeling and awkwardly shoehorning in the words. And the whole "wall of distorted overlayered guitars and bass" sound that started and has been getting worse since TFE.

That's a bit harsh, but I agree to some extent with what you're saying.

 

I think we're all willing to make allowances for Geddy's diminished vocal range. It's unrealistic to expect him to have the vocal abilities of a 30 year old forever.

 

As for the "wall of sound", that's just Alex trying to make the last three albums sound like his solo album.

 

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:36 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   just because sales were good doesn't mean everyone was happy with their purchase.

[LedRush]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 07:39 PM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:36 PM) QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   just because sales were good doesn't mean everyone was happy with their purchase. Perhaps. But the songs from RTB got more radio play than anything since Moving Pictures, so people probably knew what they were getting into.   Every year I convince a group of freinds to see Rush with me, though they aren't really Rush fans. They go as a chance to get together with old friends. But those that are casual fans like PeW, MP and RTB more than any other album. I'm not saying they're right, but there it is.

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:36 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   And, indeed, RTB did improve on Presto in every possible way. (that, of course, is an opinion, albet one supported by Rush fans' response.) High sales figures aren't a marker of quality music. I think the majority of Rush fans would agree that RTB was a stinker.   But if you like it........

[LedRush]

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 07:47 PM)

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:36 PM) QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   And, indeed, RTB did improve on Presto in every possible way. (that, of course, is an opinion, albet one supported by Rush fans' response.) High sales figures aren't a marker of quality music. I think the majority of Rush fans would agree that RTB was a stinker.   But if you like it........ I think the hardcore Rush fans didn't like it, in part, because it was more popular. It brought in a bunch of new fans who didn't enjoy Signals through Presto, and the old guard dismissed the album (and those fans). It's kinda like how Grateful Dead fans feel about "In the Dark" (I'm not a Dead Head, so I don't really know how that album stacks up.)

[troutman]

All though I hate the sound production of Presto. I have to go with it. It has a lot of meaning and memories for me.

[HomesickAlien]

QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:55 PM)

QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 07:47 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 07:36 PM) QUOTE (substancewithoutstyle @ Jul 20 2012, 02:52 PM) QUOTE (LedRush @ Jul 20 2012, 02:39 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:35 PM) QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 02:33 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 20 2012, 02:30 PM) Presto to me is the weakest RUSH album overall with very thin sounding production similar to the follow-up album Roll the Bones that was some one-two punch. However, the public at large loved RTB. It reversed the decline of album sales that began with Signals. I think elsewhere you said that RTB "delivered on the unfinished promises" of Presto.   Sales figures are facts, not opinion.   And, indeed, RTB did improve on Presto in every possible way. (that, of course, is an opinion, albet one supported by Rush fans' response.) High sales figures aren't a marker of quality music. I think the majority of Rush fans would agree that RTB was a stinker.   But if you like it........ I think the hardcore Rush fans didn't like it, in part, because it was more popular. It brought in a bunch of new fans who didn't enjoy Signals through Presto, and the old guard dismissed the album (and those fans). It's kinda like how Grateful Dead fans feel about "In the Dark" (I'm not a Dead Head, so I don't really know how that album stacks up.) I have to give you credit for defending this clunker so vehemently.

[rushgoober]

Well, despite so many TRF people for some reason making a 180 in the last 5 years and throwing Snakes & Arrows completely under the bus... this is not the majority of how most people think.

 

ProgArchives:

 

Presto - 3.11 out of 5 - 411 people voting

S&A - 3.57 out of 5 - 493 people voting

 

rateyourmusic.com:

 

Presto - 3.27 out of 5 - 1,149 people voting

S&A - 3.50 out of 5 - 1,371 people voting

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 08:13 PM)

Well, despite so many TRF people for some reason making a 180 in the last 5 years and throwing Snakes & Arrows completely under the bus... this is not the majority of how most people think. ProgArchives: Presto - 3.11 out of 5 - 411 people voting S&A - 3.57 out of 5 - 493 people voting rateyourmusic.com: Presto - 3.27 out of 5 - 1,149 people voting S&A - 3.50 out of 5 - 1,371 people voting

it still sucks dude.

[rushgoober]

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 06:19 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 08:13 PM) Well, despite so many TRF people for some reason making a 180 in the last 5 years and throwing Snakes & Arrows completely under the bus... this is not the majority of how most people think. ProgArchives: Presto - 3.11 out of 5 - 411 people voting S&A - 3.57 out of 5 - 493 people voting rateyourmusic.com: Presto - 3.27 out of 5 - 1,149 people voting S&A - 3.50 out of 5 - 1,371 people voting it still sucks dude. as is so often the case - your loss.

[ReflectedLight]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 08:38 PM)

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 20 2012, 06:19 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jul 20 2012, 08:13 PM) Well, despite so many TRF people for some reason making a 180 in the last 5 years and throwing Snakes & Arrows completely under the bus... this is not the majority of how most people think. ProgArchives: Presto - 3.11 out of 5 - 411 people voting S&A - 3.57 out of 5 - 493 people voting rateyourmusic.com: Presto - 3.27 out of 5 - 1,149 people voting S&A - 3.50 out of 5 - 1,371 people voting it still sucks dude. as is so often the case - your loss. no my gain by not listening to it and wasting my time.

[Shreddy Lee]

In this matchup I'll take S&A any day. There are, you know, some actual good, listenable songs on it.

[ColdFireYYZ]

Snakes & Arrows is a good, especially Armor and Sword and Far Cry, but overall Presto is the better album. The Pass is one of their best songs.

[Presto-digitation]

S&A is better top-to-bottom. More filler on Presto. S&A is also better engineered.