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Have to Say Royster Killed it

druid13

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Al.

Al.

Posted
Posted

QUOTE (pratt53 @ Aug 23 2011, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 23 2011, 04:59 PM)
Sure, but should this be in this section?

 

...Royster nailed it as did everyone else on the first drum solo week except for Neil.

 

Neil totally sucked and for a bunch of reasons.

 

Instead of taking some time to craft something for the four minutes allotted, he scaled down his eight minute solo and it seemed rushed and disjointed. He showed up with his huge kit that looked ridiculous on the Letterman stage and had to show off his revolving riser trick and waste time with those silly electronic drums.

 

What Neil also did, which was totally lame, was that he totally ignored the band and gave up the opportunity to play with a bunch of really great musicians. Even if he wanted to end with "Love for Sale" he could have had the band play live with him instead of his pre-recording. I'm sure they would have had no problem pulling it off or keeping up with him.

 

This weeks roster, with Harrison and Copeland, is levels above week 1 and they will all put Neil to shame. These guys are musicians who will tailor an appropriate segment for the show and acknowledge the great musicians in Paul's band. Not show up with their huge kits and toys and silly matching t-shirts and hats.

....

 

First post here for me, but hey, I'll jump in the deep end!

 

Yep, Royster is phenomenal, but he was nailing it better as a 12 year old! (google it)

 

Peart did this in a middle of a world tour at the age of 58. When was he supposed to sit down and craft something new?

 

Kit size? Hey, that's his kit that he's comfortable with, he brought his, they brought theirs! As for the rotating kit, that's showmanship for the non-musicians.

 

But for sure Peart killed 'em all, and here's why (in my opinion). Peart did something that NONE of the other drummers did, and probably something that most of the them can't (even the young Neil Peart of ESL era couldn't do this). He did the ostinato thing with his feet while soling over top like usual, but he also switched up the tempos (in the part that sounded like a train). He kept one tempo with the feet and another with the hands. No other drummer did that. It's one thing to do the ostinatos but totally another to have 2 different tempo's going. Sure he could've come out and did the flashy rudiments like Sheena E (impressive in high heels no less!) but at that level, ALL those drummers are skilled enough to do that stuff. ONLY Peart kept 2 different time sigs and 2 different tempos going at the same time. The 4 limb independence stuff is always more difficult than the basic patterns done at high speed; even though it may come across as not being as impressive.

 

(As for Copeland, I realise you posted before he was on, but Copeland didn't come across all that well; none of his intricate HH work to be heard)

 

Now, that being said, music is not a competition!

 

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Khan

Khan

Posted
Posted

QUOTE (Al. @ Sep 15 2011, 04:06 PM)
QUOTE (pratt53 @ Aug 23 2011, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 23 2011, 04:59 PM)
Sure, but should this be in this section?

 

...Royster nailed it as did everyone else on the first drum solo week except for Neil.

 

Neil totally sucked and for a bunch of reasons.

 

Instead of taking some time to craft something for the four minutes allotted, he scaled down his eight minute solo and it seemed rushed and disjointed. He showed up with his huge kit that looked ridiculous on the Letterman stage and had to show off his revolving riser trick and waste time with those silly electronic drums.

 

What Neil also did, which was totally lame, was that he totally ignored the band and gave up the opportunity to play with a bunch of really great musicians. Even if he wanted to end with "Love for Sale" he could have had the band play live with him instead of his pre-recording. I'm sure they would have had no problem pulling it off or keeping up with him.

 

This weeks roster, with Harrison and Copeland, is levels above week 1 and they will all put Neil to shame. These guys are musicians who will tailor an appropriate segment for the show and acknowledge the great musicians in Paul's band. Not show up with their huge kits and toys and silly matching t-shirts and hats.

....

 

First post here for me, but hey, I'll jump in the deep end!

 

Yep, Royster is phenomenal, but he was nailing it better as a 12 year old! (google it)

 

Peart did this in a middle of a world tour at the age of 58. When was he supposed to sit down and craft something new?

 

Kit size? Hey, that's his kit that he's comfortable with, he brought his, they brought theirs! As for the rotating kit, that's showmanship for the non-musicians.

 

But for sure Peart killed 'em all, and here's why (in my opinion). Peart did something that NONE of the other drummers did, and probably something that most of the them can't (even the young Neil Peart of ESL era couldn't do this). He did the ostinato thing with his feet while soling over top like usual, but he also switched up the tempos (in the part that sounded like a train). He kept one tempo with the feet and another with the hands. No other drummer did that. It's one thing to do the ostinatos but totally another to have 2 different tempo's going. Sure he could've come out and did the flashy rudiments like Sheena E (impressive in high heels no less!) but at that level, ALL those drummers are skilled enough to do that stuff. ONLY Peart kept 2 different time sigs and 2 different tempos going at the same time. The 4 limb independence stuff is always more difficult than the basic patterns done at high speed; even though it may come across as not being as impressive.

 

(As for Copeland, I realise you posted before he was on, but Copeland didn't come across all that well; none of his intricate HH work to be heard)

 

Now, that being said, music is not a competition!

Agreed Royster is the shit for sure and Copeland just didn't do it for me either.

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druid13

druid13

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Posted (edited)

QUOTE (Al. @ Sep 15 2011, 03:06 PM)
QUOTE (pratt53 @ Aug 23 2011, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (An Enemy Without @ Aug 23 2011, 04:59 PM)
Sure, but should this be in this section?

 

...Royster nailed it as did everyone else on the first drum solo week except for Neil.

 

Neil totally sucked and for a bunch of reasons.

 

Instead of taking some time to craft something for the four minutes allotted, he scaled down his eight minute solo and it seemed rushed and disjointed. He showed up with his huge kit that looked ridiculous on the Letterman stage and had to show off his revolving riser trick and waste time with those silly electronic drums.

 

What Neil also did, which was totally lame, was that he totally ignored the band and gave up the opportunity to play with a bunch of really great musicians. Even if he wanted to end with "Love for Sale" he could have had the band play live with him instead of his pre-recording. I'm sure they would have had no problem pulling it off or keeping up with him.

 

This weeks roster, with Harrison and Copeland, is levels above week 1 and they will all put Neil to shame. These guys are musicians who will tailor an appropriate segment for the show and acknowledge the great musicians in Paul's band. Not show up with their huge kits and toys and silly matching t-shirts and hats.

....

 

First post here for me, but hey, I'll jump in the deep end!

 

Yep, Royster is phenomenal, but he was nailing it better as a 12 year old! (google it)

 

Peart did this in a middle of a world tour at the age of 58. When was he supposed to sit down and craft something new?

 

Kit size? Hey, that's his kit that he's comfortable with, he brought his, they brought theirs! As for the rotating kit, that's showmanship for the non-musicians.

 

But for sure Peart killed 'em all, and here's why (in my opinion). Peart did something that NONE of the other drummers did, and probably something that most of the them can't (even the young Neil Peart of ESL era couldn't do this). He did the ostinato thing with his feet while soling over top like usual, but he also switched up the tempos (in the part that sounded like a train). He kept one tempo with the feet and another with the hands. No other drummer did that. It's one thing to do the ostinatos but totally another to have 2 different tempo's going. Sure he could've come out and did the flashy rudiments like Sheena E (impressive in high heels no less!) but at that level, ALL those drummers are skilled enough to do that stuff. ONLY Peart kept 2 different time sigs and 2 different tempos going at the same time. The 4 limb independence stuff is always more difficult than the basic patterns done at high speed; even though it may come across as not being as impressive.

 

(As for Copeland, I realise you posted before he was on, but Copeland didn't come across all that well; none of his intricate HH work to be heard)

 

Now, that being said, music is not a competition!

I have one big problem wiht the keeping time with feet and hands thing.....first off, Gavin did indeed do this at one point.

 

The concept you are talking about is an ostinato....Bozzio is a king in this along with a few others Minneman, Mangini, Wackerman etc...

 

The idea is to hold a repeating pattern with feet ( or hand) and solo wiht the opposing limbs ( hands or feet depending on what you are using as ostinato)....

 

My problem wiht Neil's was...well...he lost it....his ostinato at times got off...way off ...at points and did not stay solid. It's a coordination thing bu tit's best to really have the thing down before playing it out. I heard stuff in there that sounded like practice room flubs. And before anyone jumps on me WE ALL MAKE THEM....especially with ostinato patterns...they are deceptive and difficult....but you will notice the guys who really have this stuff down are not losing time etc.

 

Clearly if you listen around 3:11 ( start earlier to catch groove and settle in) the Hat part ( tamborine sound) gets off..again at 3:15...3:18...3:21....3:24...having the part stand out strongly (because he is playing strange keyboard sounds) makes it all the more obvious there is a timing issue.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs...ayer_detailpage

 

 

that and his Gadd fill ( Ugh) placed at strange times....like here:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs...tailpage#t=298s

 

 

I just can't give him the best solo award.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs...ayer_detailpage

Edited by druid13
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Al.

Al.

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Posted

Yes, I know it's an ostinato, that's why I used the word ostinato in my post! smile.gif

 

I don't think this section sounded off though. I thought it was very clever. If you think about it, the sound samples he was using was that of steam engine type sounds/machinery. I think he was mimicking the sound of a steam(punk) machine. I think it was intentional.

 

If you listen to the hand pattern, to my ear, it's consistent. If you listen to the feet, it's consistent (and he intentionally switches up the feet pattern at one point). But together, they sound all over the place. He even talks about that in Anatomy of a Drum solo, how he's finally able to transcend the time barrier *and* time signature barrier. So my impression was that was what he was trying to accomplish in that part.

 

It actually sounds like some convoluted warped piston engine to me, which ties in with his whole steampunk theme. Which is something he of all people would do deliberately. If you watch Anatomy of a Drum solo, as he breaks down his solo, you realise Peart is (at least recently) very deliberate/intellectual in the progressions of the different motifs in his solos.

 

I see your point about the HH later on though, yeah it's off. Steve Gadd fill...yeah not the best place for it, although some say that about many of Peart's fills, but to me that's what makes it...cool!

 

Great fun discussing this though!

 

 

 

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Drummerrobin

Drummerrobin

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I still think Neil had one of the better solos - I'd place it 3rd behind Gavin and Copeland, making it my favourite of the 1st week. IMO it was the most musical and creative of the solos that week. I was quite liking Anton's solo until he did that HORRIBLE crash cymbal groove which killed it for me. Shelia E. had the chops, but I found her solo to be lacking in creativity and musicality (I'd say the same about Tony Royster Jr). Roy Haynes I liked but I wouldn't really call what he played a "solo" in the conventional sense - still good though.

 

While I agree Neil's solo might have suffered from being shortened and the it might not have been the tightest big band finale, I also think he still outshone the other players that week in terms of constructing an effective and musical solo - Sheila E. could take a leaf out of his book maybe!

 

He's definitely played worse... tongue.gif

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An Enemy Without

An Enemy Without

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Posted

Sheila E.'s solo was really very boring. Her technical ability is incredible, but it was just very uninspiring and lacking.

 

 

Now as for Copeland's solo, THAT was incredible. It was an amazing display of showmanship and love of his craft and that's really what places him above many of the others. He's a great drummer, and above all, a natural entertainer. You can tell from his solo that he loves what he does.

 

 

 

And this is coming from a guy who doesn't even like The Police. wink.gif

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Draco

Draco

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Posted

Ok. I went back and listened to Royster, Copeland, Harrison, Chambers, and Peart.

 

Letterman obviously loved Chambers the most. I though Chambers could have done more, he certainly is talented enough to do so. That left me a little disappointed.

 

The crowd reaction I thought was strongest for Peart.

 

I guess if I hadn't seen Peart before, I would have thought he was the best. I did show it to an friend not familiar with Peart, and she said that she hasn't seen anything like that before. So my view was a little off target.

 

If I have to rank them, and this is purely my viewpoint...

 

Royster

Peart

Copeland

Harrison and Chambers, can't decide which one is above the other.

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