Tom Sawyer on ESL: TTCE v. RRx3

[barry123]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but...

 

The ESL version of Tom Sawyer appears on Rush's vhs "Through the Camera Eye" ('TTCE'). The sound of Neil's snare drum there is just as tight and normal sounding as it sounds on the ESL album itself. Check this out at time-code 5:46

 

But on the the ESL version contained in Rush Replayx3 ('RRx3') , the sound of Neil's snare during that concert has an aggressive echo, sounding more like he is hitting an empty garbage can than a snare drum. Check this out at time-code 7:05

 

I have not been able to verify the sound of the audio in the VHS version of ESL. I assume the audio heard on RRx3 is the same as the audio track originally present on the VHS release.

 

The ESL video itself was released in 1982, obviously before TTCE, released in 1985, meaning somebody, for purposes of the TTCE video, tinkered with the ESL audio to remove the trash-can echo effect.

 

Why this change?

 

This becomes a bigger question because the ESL video contained in RRx3, released in 2006, has restored the original trash-can snare drum sound effect.

 

Does anybody know why Rush made the change (TTCE), then undid this (RRx3)?

 

I personally find the trash-can effect distracting from the song itself.

 

What's really interesting is that the tone of the snare also seems different between the two versions, despite the fact that the video in both cases was showing one and the same identical performance. It therefore appears that the "tinkering" consisted of taking an isolated snare drum hit recorded at another time and splicing it into the original ESL audio, doing this for each and every snare drum hit Neil made during that performance.

 

In other words, not a typical remix or remaster, but more of a 'chop up broadway' job. That's an awful lot of post-recording studio work, the purpose of which many Rush fans would love to hear about.

 

Indeed, how could the original snare drum echo effect be "removed" by studio processes available in 1985, without very extensive and invasive editing?

 

Please provide a true and correct copy of any doctor bills which were occasioned by your lack of sleep over these daunting questions.

Edited March 15, 2016 by barry123

[Day of Light]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I'm impressed with the eloquence of your post.

 

I hope you find your answers soon so that you might finally acquire sleep.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Day of Light

[JARG]

What's really interesting is that the tone of the snare also seems different between the two versions, despite the fact that the video in both cases was showing one and the same identical performance. It therefore appears that the "tinkering" consisted of taking an isolated snare drum hit recorded at another time and splicing it into the original ESL audio, doing this for each and every snare drum hit Neil made during that performance.

Which seems so labor-intensive that I'm not inclined to believe that's what happened.

[ytserush]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but...

 

The ESL version of Tom Sawyer appears on Rush's vhs "Through the Camera Eye" ('TTCE'). The sound of Neil's snare drum there is just as tight and normal sounding as it sounds on the ESL album itself. Check this out at time-code 5:46

 

But on the the ESL version contained in Rush Replayx3 ('RRx3') , the sound of Neil's snare during that concert has an aggressive echo, sounding more like he is hitting an empty garbage can than a snare drum. Check this out at time-code 7:05

 

I have not been able to verify the sound of the audio in the VHS version of ESL. I assume the audio heard on RRx3 is the same as the audio track originally present on the VHS release.

 

The ESL video itself was released in 1982, obviously before TTCE, released in 1985, meaning somebody, for purposes of the TTCE video, tinkered with the ESL audio to remove the trash-can echo effect.

 

Why this change?

 

This becomes a bigger question because the ESL video contained in RRx3, released in 2006, has restored the original trash-can snare drum sound effect.

 

Does anybody know why Rush made the change (TTCE), then undid this (RRx3)?

 

I personally find the trash-can effect distracting from the song itself.

 

What's really interesting is that the tone of the snare also seems different between the two versions, despite the fact that the video in both cases was showing one and the same identical performance. It therefore appears that the "tinkering" consisted of taking an isolated snare drum hit recorded at another time and splicing it into the original ESL audio, doing this for each and every snare drum hit Neil made during that performance.

 

In other words, not a typical remix or remaster, but more of a 'chop up broadway' job. That's an awful lot of post-recording studio work, the purpose of which many Rush fans would love to hear about.

 

Indeed, how could the original snare drum echo effect be "removed" by studio processes available in 1985, without very extensive and invasive editing?

 

Please provide a true and correct copy of any doctor bills which were occasioned by your lack of sleep over these daunting questions.

 

The audio from the DVD is "remastered." The Through The Camera Eye version may have been a "video mix" because sometimes bands used different versions for MTV (I know Pete Townshend and The Who had different audio versions on some of their videos.) If I recall correctly the snare broke during that performance on the album and they had to doctor that but the performances on the album and video/DVD are different.

 

I'm pretty sure there is a thread around here somewhere with complaints in it about the reissue on ReplayX3. Alex was apparently responsible in this case.

[ytserush]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but...

 

The ESL version of Tom Sawyer appears on Rush's vhs "Through the Camera Eye" ('TTCE'). The sound of Neil's snare drum there is just as tight and normal sounding as it sounds on the ESL album itself. Check this out at time-code 5:46

 

But on the the ESL version contained in Rush Replayx3 ('RRx3') , the sound of Neil's snare during that concert has an aggressive echo, sounding more like he is hitting an empty garbage can than a snare drum. Check this out at time-code 7:05

 

I have not been able to verify the sound of the audio in the VHS version of ESL. I assume the audio heard on RRx3 is the same as the audio track originally present on the VHS release.

 

The ESL video itself was released in 1982, obviously before TTCE, released in 1985, meaning somebody, for purposes of the TTCE video, tinkered with the ESL audio to remove the trash-can echo effect.

 

Why this change?

 

This becomes a bigger question because the ESL video contained in RRx3, released in 2006, has restored the original trash-can snare drum sound effect.

 

Does anybody know why Rush made the change (TTCE), then undid this (RRx3)?

 

I personally find the trash-can effect distracting from the song itself.

 

What's really interesting is that the tone of the snare also seems different between the two versions, despite the fact that the video in both cases was showing one and the same identical performance. It therefore appears that the "tinkering" consisted of taking an isolated snare drum hit recorded at another time and splicing it into the original ESL audio, doing this for each and every snare drum hit Neil made during that performance.

 

In other words, not a typical remix or remaster, but more of a 'chop up broadway' job. That's an awful lot of post-recording studio work, the purpose of which many Rush fans would love to hear about.

 

Indeed, how could the original snare drum echo effect be "removed" by studio processes available in 1985, without very extensive and invasive editing?

 

Please provide a true and correct copy of any doctor bills which were occasioned by your lack of sleep over these daunting questions.

 

The audio from the DVD is "remastered." The Through The Camera Eye version may have been a "video mix" because sometimes bands used different versions for MTV (I know Pete Townshend and The Who had different audio versions on some of their videos.) If I recall correctly the snare broke during that performance on the album and they had to doctor that but the performances on the album and video/DVD are different.

 

I'm pretty sure there is a thread around here somewhere with complaints in it about the reissue on ReplayX3. Alex was apparently responsible in this case.

 

 

Found it:

 

 

http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/88959-apparently-is-this-true/

 

 

 

That was 15 minutes I'll never get back. ( All in the name of geekdom. Hope this answers some questions.)

[Lucas]

I had an involuntary blast of diarrhea reading all those acronyms

 

But I am happy that you got you answer

 

Welcome to the forum

 

YFL

 

( Your Friend Lucas )

[RUSHHEAD666]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but...

 

The ESL version of Tom Sawyer appears on Rush's vhs "Through the Camera Eye" ('TTCE'). The sound of Neil's snare drum there is just as tight and normal sounding as it sounds on the ESL album itself. Check this out at time-code 5:46

 

But on the the ESL version contained in Rush Replayx3 ('RRx3') , the sound of Neil's snare during that concert has an aggressive echo, sounding more like he is hitting an empty garbage can than a snare drum. Check this out at time-code 7:05

 

I have not been able to verify the sound of the audio in the VHS version of ESL. I assume the audio heard on RRx3 is the same as the audio track originally present on the VHS release.

 

The ESL video itself was released in 1982, obviously before TTCE, released in 1985, meaning somebody, for purposes of the TTCE video, tinkered with the ESL audio to remove the trash-can echo effect.

 

Why this change?

 

This becomes a bigger question because the ESL video contained in RRx3, released in 2006, has restored the original trash-can snare drum sound effect.

 

Does anybody know why Rush made the change (TTCE), then undid this (RRx3)?

 

I personally find the trash-can effect distracting from the song itself.

 

What's really interesting is that the tone of the snare also seems different between the two versions, despite the fact that the video in both cases was showing one and the same identical performance. It therefore appears that the "tinkering" consisted of taking an isolated snare drum hit recorded at another time and splicing it into the original ESL audio, doing this for each and every snare drum hit Neil made during that performance.

 

In other words, not a typical remix or remaster, but more of a 'chop up broadway' job. That's an awful lot of post-recording studio work, the purpose of which many Rush fans would love to hear about.

 

Indeed, how could the original snare drum echo effect be "removed" by studio processes available in 1985, without very extensive and invasive editing?

 

Please provide a true and correct copy of any doctor bills which were occasioned by your lack of sleep over these daunting questions.

As a drummer normally I would have some insane off the wall answer to your incredible question. Even I can't grasp this reality but man I love your thought process.

Maybe I can come back on this thread and give you some insight. Wow!

I am blown away.

 

At least Neil's snare drum doesn't sound like Portnoy's machine gun shite trigger on "Images And Nerds."

 

Welcome To The Jungle my friend!