So can YOU tell a difference?

[clem]

Enjoyed reading the thread started by Captain Avatar's "Neil's Drumming....What Gives", and it inspired me to ask some questions around topic that I've always been curious about, which are:

 

"Is there really that much of a difference between the different instruments (i.e. guitars) that the guys play when they're on stage?"

"If so, what exactly are they?"

"Is it more of a change in how the instrument sounds, or how the instrument feels when they play?"

 

Whenever I watch a Rush show, it seems as though Geddy and Alex frequently change guitars in between songs, and I, for the life of me, can't really hear any difference most of the time. If I were to close my eyes, I wouldn't be able to tell if Alex were playing the "red" one as opposed to the "black" one.

 

Now, as you obviously can tell, I'm no musician. I don't the difference between a stratocaster and a fendercaster. I always get a bit lost when people post things like "Wow! Geddy is now using an oberheim x87tk42 synth!"

 

I'm just really curious if there's that much of a difference. Any recommendations of listening to different performances with different guitars of the same song where one can really notice?

 

Clem

 

PS - Back in the 80's, I remember Geddy used to use a small, rectangular shaped bass (I think called a "Wal"). At one point, he ranted and raved how great it was. If that's the case, how come he doesn't use it anymore? Is it just that technology has changed?

[Tombstone Mountain]

It was a Steinberger bass. Incredible transition because it feels like you're playing a broom with a thick handle. He did a masterful job on it

[Maverick]

Alex may change guitars due to needing different tunings, etc. Aside from that, a lot of it has to do with how the guitar feels and reacts for certain songs. He might need a guitar with a tremolo for one song, and then a guitar with a hard tail for another, as well. But generally, Alex is playing through such heavy distortion and other processing, you really won't wear any difference between guitars he will use.

[Maverick]

Geddy used the Steinberger because it didn't have a headstock, and was easier to maneuver past mic stands and keyboards with it. I think he only used it on the GUP tour, but not even on the album. By the time Power Windows came out, he had discovered Wal, and used them on PoW and HYF. He liked those basses because they produced a really punchy sound that really cut through the mix. Edited November 26, 2014 by Dr. Sheldon Cooper

[Tombstone Mountain]

Geddy use the Steinberger because it didn't have a headstock, and was easier to maneuver past mic stands and keyboards with it.I think he only used it on the GUP tour, but not even on the album. By the time Power Windows came out, he had discovered Wal, and used them on PoW and HYF. He like those basses because they produced a really punchy sound that really cut through the mix.

Not bad coming from a guitar player

[KennyLee]

Different basses and amps can create different tones but one constant truth that most musicians will agree on.

 

90% of your tone is in your fingers.

[toymaker]

All I know is that different guitars do sound different, but I would agree that because the effects Lifeson uses are pretty layered, and he has such a distinctive style, and the music is quite complex, it can be hard to notice the subtle difference. I have a big electric hollow-body archtop guitar, a Fender Nashville telecaster, and a Les Paul, and they do sound very different when I'm just playing by myself. The overdrive effect sounds different on each one as well. Leads and solos have radically different tones.

 

I think it's easier to tell with bass. Each of the main basses Lee's used - Rickenbacker, Fender Jazz, and Wal - have very distinctive sounds.

 

Back to guitar - I associate the hollow-body electric - the 335 or whatever it is - with the opening electric chords of A Farewell to Kings. I'd be surprised to learn that that wasn't what he used.

 

And can I ask a question that I've asked on two other threads, but no one has responded to? The solo near the end of 2112 has a very distinctive, trebley, sort of trashy sound, and I've always wondered if it might be an acoustic guitar that's been over-driven or distorted somehow. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

Edited November 26, 2014 by toymaker

[EagleMoon]

 

And can I ask a question that I've asked on two other threads, but no one has responded to? The solo near the end of 2112 has a very distinctive, trebley, sort of trashy sound, and I've always wondered if it might be an acoustic guitar that's been over-driven or distorted somehow. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

Can you be more specific to which part of the song?

[toymaker]

And can I ask a question that I've asked on two other threads, but no one has responded to? The solo near the end of 2112 has a very distinctive, trebley, sort of trashy sound, and I've always wondered if it might be an acoustic guitar that's been over-driven or distorted somehow. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

Can you be more specific to which part of the song?

 

I'm thinking of the very last solo of the song, in the Grand Finale, somewhere around 19:20 or so.

 

In the other thread I mentioned that when I was young and couldn't afford stuff, I put a cheap pickup into my acoustic guitar and plugged it into a tiny guitar amp. If I cranked it, I could get this nasty distortion. I'm kind of reminded of that.

 

It could just be a fuzztone effect I'm not familiar with.

Edited November 26, 2014 by toymaker

[EagleMoon]

And can I ask a question that I've asked on two other threads, but no one has responded to? The solo near the end of 2112 has a very distinctive, trebley, sort of trashy sound, and I've always wondered if it might be an acoustic guitar that's been over-driven or distorted somehow. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

Can you be more specific to which part of the song?

 

I'm thinking of the very last solo of the song, in the Grand Finale, somewhere around 19:20 or so.

 

In the other thread I mentioned that when I was young and couldn't afford stuff, I put a cheap pickup into my acoustic guitar and plugged it into a tiny guitar amp. If I cranked it, I could get this nasty distortion. I'm kind of reminded of that.

 

It could just be a fuzztone effect I'm not familiar with.

 

Oh I know what part you mean. Sounds to me like a volume swell with a wah pedal and a really tiny amp to me too. It sounds like the 335/355 because even though it's really tinny sounding it still sounds full-bodied.

Edited November 27, 2014 by EagleMoon

[toymaker]

And can I ask a question that I've asked on two other threads, but no one has responded to? The solo near the end of 2112 has a very distinctive, trebley, sort of trashy sound, and I've always wondered if it might be an acoustic guitar that's been over-driven or distorted somehow. Does anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

Can you be more specific to which part of the song?

 

I'm thinking of the very last solo of the song, in the Grand Finale, somewhere around 19:20 or so.

 

In the other thread I mentioned that when I was young and couldn't afford stuff, I put a cheap pickup into my acoustic guitar and plugged it into a tiny guitar amp. If I cranked it, I could get this nasty distortion. I'm kind of reminded of that.

 

It could just be a fuzztone effect I'm not familiar with.

 

Oh I know what part you mean. Sounds to me like a volume swell with a wah pedal and a really tiny amp to me too. It sounds like the 335/355 because even though it's really tinny sounding it still sounds full-bodied.

 

Thanks for the response. Whatever the heck it is, I can't think of another song in which he gets that weird, strident tone . . . although I have to listen to Caress again, because there was something about the guitar tone in one of the songs that I was wondering about. I just can't think of what it is right now.

[Captain Avatar]

I can never tell the difference in a concert.

 

I can, however, tell a huge difference in sound from album to album.

 

I think my least favorite tone that Alex ever had was on Hold Your Fire. It's pretty much the thinest, shrillest guitar I've ever heard. That being said, I really loved the musical choices he made on that album. I hate the sound, but love the beautiful, melodic arpeggios, etc. that he played with it.

 

Conversely, I love the tone that he's getting now much better. The problem is that I don't really care for a lot of his musical choices anymore. He always seems to be going for a loud "wall of sound," with tons of layering and not nearly as melodic. I miss the sparse, beautiful playing that he used to do.

 

I think Geddy's tone was actually better on Hold Your Fire. I actually like the sound of the Wal, as I think it really matched Geddy's playing style well. I also liked the choices he made then. Like with Alex, I'm not nearly as much of a fan of his most recent playing, as he has gone with a very thick sounding Fender Jazz, which might not be so bad, except that he now plays with a flamenco style that, coupled with Alex's "wall of sound," makes for what I consider a much less melodic, much more chaotically jumbled sound. I think one of the few deviations from that was The Anarchist, which is why I love that song so much.

 

I think Rush sounded their collective best on Moving Pictures, when all three guys completely nailed it with regard to tone, chops, musical decisions, melodic sense, inventiveness, etc. I know not everyone will agree with me on that point (or any of my points), but I think there's a good reason Moving Pictures is such a classic.

[EagleMoon]

I can tell the difference between some of Alex's guitars in concert. Like when he brought out the 355 for Working Man on the Time Machine tour, all of the sudden his guitar had balls. His Tele also has a very distinctive tone.

[jacklifeson]

Geddy never used to switch basses between songs back in the day. He started doing it because they started dropping tunings on some songs and he needed a different bass to accomplish that. Nowadays I have noticed he changes occasionally anyway even if its not a different tuning...like the seafoam green jazz bass he plays sometimes I think is in normal tuning. I switch basses between some songs at pretty much every gig I do, usually boils down to what bass I feel will fit the song I am playing. And by the way my main bass is a Rickenbacker and I have a Steinberger I use alot too...saving my pennies for a Wal next...and since I paid alot for each, I am going to give them playing time. So, besides the tuning thing I would say...because he can.