Upgraded to the R30 blu ray (re-sound mix)

[kevycanavan]

So, I've just upgraded to the R30 blu ray, from the DVD.

 

While the picture and the extra songs are well worth the upgrade, I thought I'd start a bit of a fight (only joking)

 

With all the talk in recent months about the new Clockwork Angels Live blu ray, and the remix of VT, I've seen it said on the forums multiple times, almost uniformly, that the Time Machine and Clockwork Angels Tour mixes are vastly inferior to the one on offer from the r30 set.

 

I have to say now that I've heard the Blu Ray (the highest quality available source of the mix) that I couldn't disagree more.

 

There's probably a case for the CAT mix being a bit rough, perhaps a bit guitar heavy, and a little vocals light, but certainly not the TMT mix.

 

Everything in this R30 disc sounds far away, as if being recorded from the back of the hall, using very expensive mics (I know this isn't actually the case, I speak poetically) especially the drums, and especially on the add on tracks.

 

 

TMT absolutely is the best modern era Rush live mix.

 

[EagleMoon]

I would agree with you. The recording is great. Its just that Geddys voice was in such bad shape that it's harder to listen to. Rio has always been a very unsatisfactory recording. The only thing it has going for it is the energy of the crowd. Edited December 27, 2013 by EagleMoon

[driventotheedge]

If you guys can find the TMT bootleg DVD or Blu-ray from Madison Square Garden, I highly recommend it. Ged's voice is in much better shape than the commercial release, it's well shot (Tapehead2) with a lot of close ups of the guys and the sound is very good.

[P-Tor]

TMT absolutely is the best modern era Rush live mix.

 

Surely, you're joking. TMT is, by far, the worst live mix I've ever heard.

Having said that, I agree with you about R30. I think the mix is pretty bad (but nowhere near the disaster that is TMT). S&A is the only decent sounding live recording from the last 10 years but that's not saying much.

Different Stages is still the gold standard for me. I think DS sounds fantastic.

[kevycanavan]

Rio is a travesty. Having said that, it was my introduction to Rush, and at the time I was watching it a lot, I didn't realise how bad the mix was, because I'd nothing to compare it to.

 

I think some of it on rio and r30 is down to the gear Alex is using. PRS guitars have a lovely earthy quality, when in the hands of people like Mike oldfield, but even he will only use it for certain parts of songs, and switch to a strat for clean parts etc.

bands like Opeth use them too, but there's a reason that strat, Les Pauls, telecasters, and 335s have been around for as long as they have. Their sound is just head and shoulders above what a PRS can produce.

If you listen to Rio, when Alex switches to the tele, the sound suddenly clears up a lot. Still not great, but better.

 

Also those h&k amps he was using are useless.

 

 

As I've stated before on this forum, when I saw Rush in Manchester, earlier in the year, the live sound was absolutely disgraceful, so in my opinion the quality of the mix of the CAT release is a bit of a miracle. I don't care how long the guy has been doing it, if he doesn't at least realise that Peart needs to be 45% of the mix, at a very minimum, he shouldn't be doing the job.

 

The instruments sounded great individually, when they played on their own, during solos, but this a mix does not make.

Edited December 29, 2013 by kevycanavan

[tas7]

I now have both R30 and Clockwork Angels on Blu-Ray. All I ask is for a decent stereo sound, shouldn't have to fiddle with the settings, some songs better in stereo, some better in 5.1. Have Yes at Montreaux on Blu-Ray and I just stick the disc in and it plays.

[kevycanavan]

Yes symphonic is a great music blu ray too

[Jake2112]

Rio is a travesty. Having said that, it was my introduction to Rush, and at the time I was watching it a lot, I didn't realise how bad the mix was, because I'd nothing to compare it to.

 

I think some of it on rio and r30 is down to the gear Alex is using. PRS guitars have a lovely earthy quality, when in the hands of people like Mike oldfield, but even he will only use it for certain parts of songs, and switch to a strat for clean parts etc.

bands like Opeth use them too, but there's a reason that strat, Les Pauls, telecasters, and 335s have been around for as long as they have. Their sound is just head and shoulders above what a PRS can produce.

If you listen to Rio, when Alex switches to the tele, the sound suddenly clears up a lot. Still not great, but better.

 

Also those h&k amps he was using are useless.

 

 

Though I 100% understand the thinking in this argument, some of it is a tad baseless.

 

I own an H&K Triamp (exactly like the ones he used on RIO-R30) and it is, hands-down, the greatest sounding amp I've ever played or owned. Having said that, the user does have to fine tune their tones and settings when adding effects and pedals to their Triamp, regardless if they're in the FX loop or not. What makes Alex's tone a little wonky on the RIO and R30 shows, as well as every tour since the hiatus are all the in between effects in his rig. He has multiple programs of delay and phaser running through his rig, even having his wah pedal be nothing more than a controller for his rackamount wah, so the signal gets very dilluted. On top of this, he's using wireless. While wireless technology has come a very long way since the 80's, it still becomes a hinderence when you have that many effects going through it and further dilluting the signal. With his new Lerxrst (read: Marshall) amps, he's improved on the only basis that the Lerxst is strictly the distorted amp, whereas he used the Triamps for all distorted, clean and effects.

 

In summation, it isn't so much the H&K and the PRS that muddied up the tone, it was everything in between and the way it's been set up. Alex has even said as much that Scott Appleton, his tech, wants him to slim his setup down but it's difficult for him because he's a dinosaur, he's done it that way for so long and is sort of set in his ways. Only time will tell, but that's the big reason his sound is the way that it is. I personally think his best sound was the Time Machine Tour, Geddy's tone has become phenomenal with the Orange amps. The TFE/VT and TM/CWA DW kits are by far Neil's best sounding as far as DW is concerned. Very surprising about the way they've been mixed on the last two live albums. It seems live drum mixing and recording is becoming a lost art with a lot of these artists turning to the MIDI drums for when they record.

[The Analog Cub]

/scratches head

 

Huh.

 

I think R30 has the best sounding live mix and Snakes and Arrows has the worst.

 

Rio- Geddy isn't loud enough, the crowd is half-doing it for him, but dammit this live album rocks.

 

R30- I think it sounds fine. No complaints. You can actually hear Neil.

 

S&A- THIS is the offender here. Geddy's vocals and bass sound fine, but the guitar and drums sound like you're standing a couple of blocks away from the venue, the crowd is too loud on this one too, and I won't give it a pass like Rio, because unlike this one, you can hear the crowd's complete and utter lunacy in Rio :D

 

Time Machine- Neil is too quiet. Everything else is fine.

 

CA: Neil is too quiet. Alex is a little too far to the left, but he sounds amazing. Everything else is fine.