1-0-0-1-0-0-1 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 10:41 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:53 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 01:51 PM) I couldn't care less what the lyrics say... the song rocks. I guess that's why I don't mind "Dog Years" either lol I'm in the "music first/lyrics second" camp too. It's why I like these two songs better than most of S&A, which had too much mid-tempo folksy-rock for my taste. But "Dog Years", despite being an up-tempo rocker, is still pretty annoying to me because of the lyrics. The lyrics are bad enough that they overpower the music. I'm definitely lyrics first. That's why I can't understand the whole mid-tempo complaint. Take an absolutely KILLER song like Armor & Sword. Does that song even have a tempo? Seriously, the lyrics are so moving and powerful, and the music just hammers it home. I really don't care how fast it is. Lyrics to a song like Caravan, however, just leave me cold. The music is killer, but that isn't enough to really make me want to listen to that song. And yeah, it might be part one of some epic, but it doesn't really hold up well on its own IMHO. It was released on its own. Well, they decided to release these two songs early. We're stuck with the fact that their lyrics are out of context until the album is released. If you're a lyrics first person then you're outta luck for now. Let me ask you this, then. When the album comes out, and you get a chance to hear all the songs and read all the lyrics, and you (for the most part) like both the music and the lyrics as they relate to the album concept, will "Caravan's" lyrics sit better with you if they effectively introduce the story? As for "Armor and Sword," I agree. That song is my fave on S&A aside from the instrumentals. It's because most of the rest of the songs are ALSO mid-tempo that I'm not that warm and fuzzy about the album as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 08:22 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 09:41 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:53 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 01:51 PM) I couldn't care less what the lyrics say... the song rocks. I guess that's why I don't mind "Dog Years" either lol I'm in the "music first/lyrics second" camp too. It's why I like these two songs better than most of S&A, which had too much mid-tempo folksy-rock for my taste. But "Dog Years", despite being an up-tempo rocker, is still pretty annoying to me because of the lyrics. The lyrics are bad enough that they overpower the music. I'm definitely lyrics first. That's why I can't understand the whole mid-tempo complaint. Take an absolutely KILLER song like Armor & Sword. Does that song even have a tempo? Seriously, the lyrics are so moving and powerful, and the music just hammers it home. I really don't care how fast it is. Lyrics to a song like Caravan, however, just leave me cold. The music is killer, but that isn't enough to really make me want to listen to that song. And yeah, it might be part one of some epic, but it doesn't really hold up well on its own IMHO. It was released on its own. so I guess you don't like instrumentals? I'm not saying I don't like music. It's just with Rush specifically, if the lyrics don't cut it, I often barely notice the music. For example, people talk bout how great the music is in Dog Years. I don't hear it. All I hear is them rhyming itch with bitch and other horrible lyrics, and I'm completely turned off. And of course I love instrumentals... if they're good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 2 2011, 06:47 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 08:22 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 09:41 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:53 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 01:51 PM) I couldn't care less what the lyrics say... the song rocks. I guess that's why I don't mind "Dog Years" either lol I'm in the "music first/lyrics second" camp too. It's why I like these two songs better than most of S&A, which had too much mid-tempo folksy-rock for my taste. But "Dog Years", despite being an up-tempo rocker, is still pretty annoying to me because of the lyrics. The lyrics are bad enough that they overpower the music. I'm definitely lyrics first. That's why I can't understand the whole mid-tempo complaint. Take an absolutely KILLER song like Armor & Sword. Does that song even have a tempo? Seriously, the lyrics are so moving and powerful, and the music just hammers it home. I really don't care how fast it is. Lyrics to a song like Caravan, however, just leave me cold. The music is killer, but that isn't enough to really make me want to listen to that song. And yeah, it might be part one of some epic, but it doesn't really hold up well on its own IMHO. It was released on its own. so I guess you don't like instrumentals? I'm not saying I don't like music. It's just with Rush specifically, if the lyrics don't cut it, I often barely notice the music. For example, people talk bout how great the music is in Dog Years. I don't hear it. ll I hear is them rhyming with itch with bitch and other horrible lyrics, and I'm completely turned off. And of course I love instrumentals... if they're good! I feel differently.. I love sings like The Trees, whose lyrics to me are really almost sophomoric... I do * prefer * good lyrics along with good music; but if the music is *really* good, I can work through even marginal lyrics. Maybe Im shallow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:37 PM)QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 10:41 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:53 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 01:51 PM) I couldn't care less what the lyrics say... the song rocks. I guess that's why I don't mind "Dog Years" either lol I'm in the "music first/lyrics second" camp too. It's why I like these two songs better than most of S&A, which had too much mid-tempo folksy-rock for my taste. But "Dog Years", despite being an up-tempo rocker, is still pretty annoying to me because of the lyrics. The lyrics are bad enough that they overpower the music. I'm definitely lyrics first. That's why I can't understand the whole mid-tempo complaint. Take an absolutely KILLER song like Armor & Sword. Does that song even have a tempo? Seriously, the lyrics are so moving and powerful, and the music just hammers it home. I really don't care how fast it is. Lyrics to a song like Caravan, however, just leave me cold. The music is killer, but that isn't enough to really make me want to listen to that song. And yeah, it might be part one of some epic, but it doesn't really hold up well on its own IMHO. It was released on its own. Well, they decided to release these two songs early. We're stuck with the fact that their lyrics are out of context until the album is released. If you're a lyrics first person then you're outta luck for now. Let me ask you this, then. When the album comes out, and you get a chance to hear all the songs and read all the lyrics, and you (for the most part) like both the music and the lyrics as they relate to the album concept, will "Caravan's" lyrics sit better with you if they effectively introduce the story? Possibly. I think of Pink Floyd's The Wall. There are songs that on their own I really don't think work that well, but work within the context of the story. I find myself, however, listening only to the songs on that album that work well on their own. Other concept albums (S.F. Sorrow, Quadrophenia, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway, Dark Side) have a lot more material (or even the whole thing) where the songs work really well on their own. Not only will I listen to individual songs from those albums often, but also the whole thing. If I listen to 2112 or Hemispheres or Lameth, almost all the parts work amazingly on their own, even if they're part of the story. I mean, I don't exactly queue up Didacts and Narpets and listen to it by itself, but you get the drift. So yeah, I can appreciate the idea of context, but if a component part (or two or five) doesn't work well on it's own, it's a big strike against me wanting to listen to the album as a whole, and I'm still cognizant of the weakness of an individual song lyrically. And honestly, the only overall concept I can imagine where Caravan, but especially the lyrics to BU2B get redeemed, is if the song is a journey from someone who is an atheist or questioning faith and then somehow later embraces belief and/or faith. That just ain't gonna happen. If it's just the first part of a journey towards embracing free will or something like "I've got my own moral compass to steer by," that's nice, but I've heard it before, and I wasn't particularly moved by those the first time. Nice concepts, mind you, and I agree with them on the level they're on, but I need more than that personally. QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:37 PM)As for "Armor and Sword," I agree. That song is my fave on S&A aside from the instrumentals. It's because most of the rest of the songs are ALSO mid-tempo that I'm not that warm and fuzzy about the album as a whole. I hear what you're saying, but for me S&A was never gonna be an album I was gonna love as a whole anyway, so I don't really think about the overall as much. There are five songs I would always skip, and another two that I would listen to occasionally. The other six I love. If I DID love every song on their own, I wouldn't care what tempo they were. I would just be happy to have awesome songs. I judge each song individually. Then again, if I loved each song individually, I might notice the overall flow more. I honestly, however, can't think of any album by anyone where I love each song individually and then had some kind of overall complaint about the album as a whole in terms of tempo or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushgoober Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 QUOTE (lerxt1990 @ May 2 2011, 03:48 AM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 2 2011, 06:47 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 08:22 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ May 1 2011, 09:41 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 1 2011, 10:53 AM) QUOTE (SeamusWiles @ May 1 2011, 01:51 PM) I couldn't care less what the lyrics say... the song rocks. I guess that's why I don't mind "Dog Years" either lol I'm in the "music first/lyrics second" camp too. It's why I like these two songs better than most of S&A, which had too much mid-tempo folksy-rock for my taste. But "Dog Years", despite being an up-tempo rocker, is still pretty annoying to me because of the lyrics. The lyrics are bad enough that they overpower the music. I'm definitely lyrics first. That's why I can't understand the whole mid-tempo complaint. Take an absolutely KILLER song like Armor & Sword. Does that song even have a tempo? Seriously, the lyrics are so moving and powerful, and the music just hammers it home. I really don't care how fast it is. Lyrics to a song like Caravan, however, just leave me cold. The music is killer, but that isn't enough to really make me want to listen to that song. And yeah, it might be part one of some epic, but it doesn't really hold up well on its own IMHO. It was released on its own. so I guess you don't like instrumentals? I'm not saying I don't like music. It's just with Rush specifically, if the lyrics don't cut it, I often barely notice the music. For example, people talk bout how great the music is in Dog Years. I don't hear it. ll I hear is them rhyming with itch with bitch and other horrible lyrics, and I'm completely turned off. And of course I love instrumentals... if they're good! I feel differently.. I love sings like The Trees, whose lyrics to me are really almost sophomoric... I do * prefer * good lyrics along with good music; but if the music is *really* good, I can work through even marginal lyrics. Maybe Im shallow Maybe, but I'm sure it's more that everyone is different in what they notice more and what's most important. And it's all about degrees. For example, I've played songs for my wife that I love and think she would also love, and she hates them. She'll say something like, "those lyrics are terrible," or "degrading" or "too negative," or something. And I'll say, "yeah, but it's such a pretty song!" All she can hear are the lyrics, and if she can't get past those, the rest doesn't matter. In those instances I either don't notice the lyrics as much or they just don't bother me. She's like me with lyrics, but much more extreme. I'm sure you have your breaking point too where certain lyrics you just wouldn't be able to get past. And I love the lyrics in The Trees! And I guess for me it's specific to Rush. With them I'm hyper-sensitive to their lyrics because they've in the past been such an amazing band lyrically. A large chunk of their appeal to me has always been the lyrics. That's why I don't listen to almost any of the heavy metal bands I loved in my youth, but I still listen to Rush (and of course Rush is also much more talented musically than those other bands as well). When the lyrics don't make it with this band, it's a glaring fault for me. With many other bands I don't care anywhere near as much, but then again, often those bands don't have such a high standard to live up to. Rush set the bar pretty high, and when they miss it, I can't help but notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gompers Posted May 2, 2011 Share Posted May 2, 2011 I'm not so crazy about BU2B but Caravan is awesome. Just like S&A, I'm looking forward to another great CD from Rush. S&A was my best Rush since MP moment. Still rockin out to the entire CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_b_g Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 hehe i love that my random post after listening to caravan (very loudly) got so many people talking while i agree that lyrics are a huge part of rush songs - this one definitely just got to me on a gut level - and i love the "can't stop thinking big" repetition 9 days till glasgow gig .... i fear i may explode d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowItIs Posted May 5, 2011 Share Posted May 5, 2011 Love Caravan! The first time I heard it was at the show last August and it was an immediate hit for me (as was BU2B). The... don't know how else to say it... dirty sounding guitar, the growling bass the heavy drums... man, Caravan really works for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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