I need some drummers advice.

[deadwing2112]

I have roughly $240 to spend on some drum gear. I want to get some variety in my set with splash's, china's, and a new crash cymbal. I found some stuff which I think would work. I picked out a Sabian XS20 Medium-Thin Crash 16", and a straight Pacific Drums cymbal stand to go with it. A Zildjian ZXT Fast Splash 8", and a Pacific boom cymbal stand to go with it. And last a 12" Wuhan China Cymbal($9.99 how can I go wrong?), and possible putting the china on a Pearl CH70 clamp or putting a splash on it. This all totals out to $230.90 and I would have just enough for all of it. But I would like to hear any opinions anyone on this board would have on any of the cymbals or stands.

 

Thanks.

Edited April 17, 2007 by deadwing2112

[mars_volta]

get the splash.

 

i know youre trying to get a lot for your money but theres nothing like the sound of a good quality cymbal. id rather have 1 i really like instead of 3 i dont. same for the china. 9 bucks is good but its very 'trashy' sounding.

Edited April 17, 2007 by mars_volta

[RushTraveler]

Dude, stands don't matter too much, if it solid If the stand is solid and will stay up, then you all set. As for cymbals, I agree about the one good one. I like Zildjan's darks, thins and k's They crack a lot for me at least but I get a year out of it. I love Zil's 8 and 10 inch splash. I would try to get the bigger one's next time at a used store or a pawn shop. So many young kids quit and sell off stuff to pawn or check your local papers under musical items. As NP would say...Happy Drumming ~RT

 

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

The 12" china may be a bit small. If they have a 14" or a 16" they won't be too much more expensive and will be a little more useful. The ZXT splash is a sheet metal cymbal. It looks nice but I am sure it sounds brittle and because it is cut from a sheet rather than a bronze cast it will have a certain amount of inherent tension and will likely crack easily.

I would recommend the Sabian Crash cymbal which is one of their quality lines, and a 16" Wuhan china which is a bit more all purpose cymbal (I have a few Wuhans, a 14" and 2 x 16", one of which I have had for 24 years and they all sound great). If you can get the stands with them that would be great too. The difference in price between the PDP straight vs. boom is minimal and I would recommend 2 booms because if I remember correctly the booms can be a straight stand by telescoping the boom arm into the main shaft. That's a better deal.

[Rush!]

I'd like to get another china myself. I have a Paiste PST 18" China right now and I have 2 problems with it, (not that these are a big deal):

 

1. It's way too big, I should've gotten a 14" or 16"

2. It sounds too much like a gong.

 

I'd like to get a more "trashy/thrashy"-sounding china cymbal, what types should I go for do get this type of sound?

 

I guess it could also depend on what sounds trashy/thrashy to me. My friend has a Sabian 14" Dave Weckl signature china, I love the sound of that one.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I have a Paiste 18" 505 China and it too sounds a bit gongy. But at the same time it has that Paiste China sound so I keep it around. I am a real big fan of Wuhans. All of the drummers in my "circle" except for 1 uses Wuhans. The standout is a guy who is endorsed with Meinl, so that's all he plays. That said, Meinl makes some nice sounding china and effect cymbals. the Paragon 19" China sounds really good, but it is pricey. The thing about Wuhans is they are very cheap but sound really great. You do have to play a few of them to find a good one, as with anything percussive. If you can find an old Zildjian China Boy from the 80s or 90s those sound good too. Both the Zildjians and the Paragon 19" are based on the Wuhan design (The Paragon 21 is based upon the Zildjian Swish). The Wuhans have that signature trash sound that we are accustomed to from years of Rush albums. Edited April 17, 2007 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[deadwing2112]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Apr 17 2007, 01:35 PM)

The 12" china may be a bit small. If they have a 14" or a 16" they won't be too much more expensive and will be a little more useful. The ZXT splash is a sheet metal cymbal. It looks nice but I am sure it sounds brittle and because it is cut from a sheet rather than a bronze cast it will have a certain amount of inherent tension and will likely crack easily. I would recommend the Sabian Crash cymbal which is one of their quality lines, and a 16" Wuhan china which is a bit more all purpose cymbal (I have a few Wuhans, a 14" and 2 x 16", one of which I have had for 24 years and they all sound great). If you can get the stands with them that would be great too. The difference in price between the PDP straight vs. boom is minimal and I would recommend 2 booms because if I remember correctly the booms can be a straight stand by telescoping the boom arm into the main shaft. That's a better deal.

I have played on that splash at school for jazz band and just normal concert band. It has taken kinda a beating over the year, being used for probably 8 hours a day. I thought maybe to get one just to start myself out with a splash. If I drop buying the splash I could upgrade the 12" China up to a 16" or 18".

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

If you like it then get it. I am not a fan of sheet cymbals because when they do break it can be nasty.

 

Wuhan makes some decent splashes too. I have been less than satisfied with recent Zildjian splashes, even in their A line which used to be awesome when I was younger. But these days they are made too thick and sound too much like ashtrays and not splash cymbals. They come in a "Thin" but used to be called "Paper Thin" and were very malleable. I really like the Paragon splashes because they sound like A Zildjians from the 80s, nice and thin. UFIP also makes a nice splash, but they are hard to find. Then again I listen for specific tonality in a splash.

[double bass chick]

QUOTE (mars_volta @ Apr 16 2007, 10:17 PM)

get the splash. i know youre trying to get a lot for your money but theres nothing like the sound of a good quality cymbal. id rather have 1 i really like instead of 3 i dont. same for the china. 9 bucks is good but its very 'trashy' sounding.

I agree with you.

 

 

You should just invest in 1 pro cymbal at a time. I personally think the Paiste Signatures are the best cymbals made. Period. Perfect full beautiful sound. You can get Signature's half price on E-bay. I have bought so many used but in like new condition for half the price of new.

When it comes to the sound of a kit, IMO, you just shouldn't cut corners.

 

for $240 you could get a 16' full crash for about $150 & a 10' splash foe $80.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 16 2007, 10:57 PM)

I have roughly $240 to spend on some drum gear. I want to get some variety in my set with splash's, china's, and a new crash cymbal. I found some stuff which I think would work. I picked out a Sabian XS20 Medium-Thin Crash 16", and a straight Pacific Drums cymbal stand to go with it. A Zildjian ZXT Fast Splash 8", and a Pacific boom cymbal stand to go with it. And last a 12" Wuhan China Cymbal($9.99 how can I go wrong?), and possible putting the china on a Pearl CH70 clamp or putting a splash on it. This all totals out to $230.90 and I would have just enough for all of it. But I would like to hear any opinions anyone on this board would have on any of the cymbals or stands. Thanks.

Working for a couple of music retailers allows me to put my $.02 here. First, play around with many small china's. In all honesty, if you don't like the sound, you won't play it....

Second, like Cygnus said-a boom stand by PDP is only $10 more....There are cymbal packs....the Sabian XS20's aren't a bad cymbal but I'd simply start tapping away at cymbals & pick a couple you would like. Even though I have a large set, I took time to gather money to buy those pieces (except the shells....) The cymbals wereby happenstance. I guess I recognized the timbre in which my cymbals sounded too because I never tried them out prior to buying....That was stupid & lucky of me. Trust me & the others. Enjoy the stuff you buy even if it isn't a million pieces, it's still something you picked.

Also, if you go to GC, try to get one guy to help you out. One that you trust & will always go to. Usually, in turn, this guy will give discounts (if he can) on stuff....Some are just simply kind hearted enough to get you some cool things for what you got. When I worked there, both my cohort & I used to always get the hook up on regulars that were cool with us. Deals always flew easily....So, make sure you try some stuff out & do what the other guys told you about getting a couple of good things....OOOOHHH wait....if you can, try to get a good month for GC. When they have the PResident's Day sale or anything like that, the deals fly much better....There was an Ayotte kit used that was tagged originally for $3000. On one of these days, it sold for $1250! So, always get the cool guy who likes helping & not the sleaze who wants your $$$.....

[Rush!]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Apr 17 2007, 03:30 PM)

I have a Paiste 18" 505 China and it too sounds a bit gongy. But at the same time it has that Paiste China sound so I keep it around. I am a real big fan of Wuhans. All of the drummers in my "circle" except for 1 uses Wuhans. The standout is a guy who is endorsed with Meinl, so that's all he plays. That said, Meinl makes some nice sounding china and effect cymbals. the Paragon 19" China sounds really good, but it is pricey. The thing about Wuhans is they are very cheap but sound really great. You do have to play a few of them to find a good one, as with anything percussive. If you can find an old Zildjian China Boy from the 80s or 90s those sound good too. Both the Zildjians and the Paragon 19" are based on the Wuhan design (The Paragon 21 is based upon the Zildjian Swish). The Wuhans have that signature trash sound that we are accustomed to from years of Rush albums.

So what would be a good size for a Wuhan China? Like 14-16"?

 

And Neil used Wuhan Chinas? I didn't know that, his Chinas have always sounded great to me.

[deadwing2112]

Second choice on how I should spend my money:

 

Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99

 

Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99

 

Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95

 

Total - $203.93

 

 

ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion.

[Gompers]

Spend money on cymbals. Nothing is better than a good sounding cymbal. Stay away from cheap cymbals. Of course, a whole new set of drum heads is nice too. I am a fan of Remo Pinstripe.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 18 2007, 05:23 PM)

Second choice on how I should spend my money: Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99 Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99 Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95 Total - $203.93 ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion.

Nice!

[deadwing2112]

I finally made my decision last night and bought a 16" A Custom.

[Rush!]

As soon as I save enough money, I'm going to buy a few jam blocks, maybe a cowbell or two, and possibly a Wuhan China if Jersey Drums has them.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 18 2007, 08:23 PM)

Second choice on how I should spend my money: Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99 Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99 Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95 Total - $203.93 ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion.

Go to www.GuitarCenter.com...check out the stuff they have there too. Jersey has quite a few shops...

I never like the Z Customs but I'm not the one using them. Try out the cymbals & get a feel for the sound that jumps out at you. As far as Neil is concerned, he used an 18" Wuhan (religiously at that!). The other 2 were an 18" China Boy low & a 20" China swish (If memory serves correct). BTW, why do you need Hi-hat felts? Spending the $$$ you are, you might someone at GC to throw them in.....

[the masked drummer]

I believe in getting quality cymbals, too, but as far as splashes go, I use the wuhan china splash and I LOVE the trashiness to it. Plus, if held tight, you can play sixteenth notes on it, unlike a standard splash cymbal. I used to get the Sabian china splashes, but they don't last as long and the sound isn't as good imho. Also, the wuhan $30 chinas are decent. But for crashes, rides and hihats I would stick with the expensive ones. Sometimes music stores carry a decant ride for $50 that you can try out. I wouldn't buy a cymbal I haven't heard before, though!

[deadwing2112]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Apr 25 2007, 09:03 PM)

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 18 2007, 08:23 PM) Second choice on how I should spend my money: Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99 Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99 Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95 Total - $203.93 ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion. Go to www.GuitarCenter.com...check out the stuff they have there too. Jersey has quite a few shops... I never like the Z Customs but I'm not the one using them. Try out the cymbals & get a feel for the sound that jumps out at you. As far as Neil is concerned, he used an 18" Wuhan (religiously at that!). The other 2 were an 18" China Boy low & a 20" China swish (If memory serves correct). BTW, why do you need Hi-hat felts? Spending the $$$ you are, you might someone at GC to throw them in..... I don't have a guitar center. And I wanted the high hat felts because I lost one of mine on accident.

[deadwing2112]

I just got my A Custom in the mail today. God, I love this cymbal.

[the masked drummer]

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 27 2007, 06:47 PM)

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Apr 25 2007, 09:03 PM) QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 18 2007, 08:23 PM) Second choice on how I should spend my money: Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99 Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99 Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95 Total - $203.93 ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion. Go to www.GuitarCenter.com...check out the stuff they have there too. Jersey has quite a few shops... I never like the Z Customs but I'm not the one using them. Try out the cymbals & get a feel for the sound that jumps out at you. As far as Neil is concerned, he used an 18" Wuhan (religiously at that!). The other 2 were an 18" China Boy low & a 20" China swish (If memory serves correct). BTW, why do you need Hi-hat felts? Spending the $$$ you are, you might someone at GC to throw them in..... I don't have a guitar center. And I wanted the high hat felts because I lost one of mine on accident. Get the "drummer's survival kit" made by zildjian. It was lotsa cymbal and drum parts including tons of felts and "washers" and even snare string. It's the best ten bucks you'll ever spend!   http://www.actionmusic.com/images/products/misc/ZildjianSurvivalKit.jpg   Drummer's Survival Kit

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (the_masked_drummer @ May 1 2007, 01:21 PM)

QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 27 2007, 06:47 PM) QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Apr 25 2007, 09:03 PM) QUOTE (deadwing2112 @ Apr 18 2007, 08:23 PM) Second choice on how I should spend my money: Zildjian Z Custom Medium Crash 16" - $164.99 Pacific Drum DW P/D 700 Boom Stand - $34.99 Gibraltar Hi-Hat Felts - $3.95 Total - $203.93 ps. If you have an opinion about one of the items above please voice your opinion. Go to www.GuitarCenter.com...check out the stuff they have there too. Jersey has quite a few shops... I never like the Z Customs but I'm not the one using them. Try out the cymbals & get a feel for the sound that jumps out at you. As far as Neil is concerned, he used an 18" Wuhan (religiously at that!). The other 2 were an 18" China Boy low & a 20" China swish (If memory serves correct). BTW, why do you need Hi-hat felts? Spending the $$$ you are, you might someone at GC to throw them in..... I don't have a guitar center. And I wanted the high hat felts because I lost one of mine on accident. Get the "drummer's survival kit" made by zildjian. It was lotsa cymbal and drum parts including tons of felts and "washers" and even snare string. It's the best ten bucks you'll ever spend!   http://www.actionmusic.com/images/products/misc/ZildjianSurvivalKit.jpg   Drummer's Survival Kit I agree here!! Very cool thought!