Johnny Damon bashed by Boston fans

[Der Trommler]

Yes, but the Yankees are at the top of these heap. First, they will pay any player any amount. So, they actually are ones that have been dictating. I am speaking in recent terms of officiating & the calls weren't as obvious as the other. As for the White Sox, they deserved it...The rise above calls makes it very difficult if it's bad call against bad call. Yes, the Yankees, for the 26 championships get many of these (called the benefit of the doubt)

 

I hate the Yankees for many reasons. I can actually respect them for the fact the have a burning desire to win. But I can't sit there & say that the Yanks always win because they're good. I have read articles on their championships....sometimes, they are the best team....there have been times in the last 20 years where they haven't & won....but that makes it poetic justice when I see the Wild card winner win the whole damn thing. Then there's the whole band wagon thing. I hate it when everyone loves a team because they are winners (for the last 2 years, I've watched people wear Red Sox hats gear because of the win....I hate it because people are such followers of whoever seems to be 'cool' at the time)

 

But that's about it....Although, Red Sox fans can admit this hatred to everyone.....Yanks fans? They will lie through there teeth & say there is no rivalry.....

[anagramking]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jun 5 2006, 10:10 AM)

Yes, but the Yankees are at the top of these heap. First, they will pay any player any amount. So, they actually are ones that have been dictating. I am speaking in recent terms of officiating & the calls weren't as obvious as the other. As for the White Sox, they deserved it...The rise above calls makes it very difficult if it's bad call against bad call. Yes, the Yankees, for the 26 championships get many of these (called the benefit of the doubt) I hate the Yankees for many reasons. I can actually respect them for the fact the have a burning desire to win. But I can't sit there & say that the Yanks always win because they're good. I have read articles on their championships....sometimes, they are the best team....there have been times in the last 20 years where they haven't & won....but that makes it poetic justice when I see the Wild card winner win the whole damn thing. Then there's the whole band wagon thing. I hate it when everyone loves a team because they are winners (for the last 2 years, I've watched people wear Red Sox hats gear because of the win....I hate it because people are such followers of whoever seems to be 'cool' at the time) But that's about it....Although, Red Sox fans can admit this hatred to everyone.....Yanks fans? They will lie through there teeth & say there is no rivalry.....

I'd like to see how you do around Boston saying how lucky the Celtics were for all those years.

 

The Yankees did not win in the late 90s by buying any player at any price. Gene Michael took advantage of Steinbrenner's forced exile by building up a farm system and by making good trades to build the core of the team that won the titles. It's recently that they have bought a team of stars. The teams that won the titles were very home grown teams. That's the truth. Now the farm system is depleted, and they are not too far away from having some bad teams again. Some say this year could be 1965 all over again for them. The Yanks can't spend their way out of every problem. They need to get back to developing players in their system instead of paying top dollar on the free agency market all the time.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 5 2006, 11:33 AM)

I'd like to see how you do around Boston saying how lucky the Celtics were for all those years. The Yankees did not win in the late 90s by buying any player at any price. Gene Michael took advantage of Steinbrenner's forced exile by building up a farm system and by making good trades to build the core of the team that won the titles. It's recently that they have bought a team of stars. The teams that won the titles were very home grown teams. That's the truth. Now the farm system is depleted, and they are not too far away from having some bad teams again. Some say this year could be 1965 all over again for them. The Yanks can't spend their way out of every problem. They need to get back to developing players in their system instead of paying top dollar on the free agency market all the time.

I lived in Boston during those times & aside from not liking basketball in the first place, I can say that easily if I so choose. I'd need facts to back it up but if I could, I would.

 

Well, for the almighty dollar the Yanks would. I agree they had a good farm team but many of the names I saw weren't the people that were on the farm. There were a few. Many of the AAA players were from another but got traded....honestly, I'd love to see the Yanks below the Devil Rays (which I'm still trying to figure out how they can never get themselves closer to any other team in the division....they seem to be in the same place with the same record every year. They make changes & nothing happens)

 

I don't mind anyone else winning the World Series. I think it's the Cubs turn anyway...It would get the curse off their back....Sox fans don't have that to fall back on anymore.....But I still believe there was a curse. No other explanation of failure.....unless you say it was luck....then it would go both ways for the Yanks as well.....

[anagramking]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jun 5 2006, 10:50 AM)

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 5 2006, 11:33 AM) I'd like to see how you do around Boston saying how lucky the Celtics were for all those years. The Yankees did not win in the late 90s by buying any player at any price.  Gene Michael took advantage of Steinbrenner's forced exile by building up a farm system and by making good trades to build the core of the team that won the titles.  It's recently that they have bought a team of stars.  The teams that won the titles were very home grown teams.  That's the truth.  Now the farm system is depleted, and they are not too far away from having some bad teams again.  Some say this year could be 1965 all over again for them.  The Yanks can't spend their way out of every problem.  They need to get back to developing players in their system instead of paying top dollar on the free agency market all the time. I lived in Boston during those times & aside from not liking basketball in the first place, I can say that easily if I so choose. I'd need facts to back it up but if I could, I would.   Well, for the almighty dollar the Yanks would. I agree they had a good farm team but many of the names I saw weren't the people that were on the farm. There were a few. Many of the AAA players were from another but got traded....honestly, I'd love to see the Yanks below the Devil Rays (which I'm still trying to figure out how they can never get themselves closer to any other team in the division....they seem to be in the same place with the same record every year. They make changes & nothing happens)   I don't mind anyone else winning the World Series. I think it's the Cubs turn anyway...It would get the curse off their back....Sox fans don't have that to fall back on anymore.....But I still believe there was a curse. No other explanation of failure.....unless you say it was luck....then it would go both ways for the Yanks as well..... I suppose it was luck that Frazee had money problems and had to unload Babe Ruth for cash to the Yankees. Fortune made that frame, no doubt about it. This move alone played a big part in the success of the Yanks in the 20s and 30s. One could make the case that this alone was the catalyst for all the success of the Yanks through 1964. The Red Sox had financial problems through the 30s, even. Not until Ted Williams did the franchise show new signs of life, and begin the real traditions that still stand today. The Red Sox have fielded a lot of good teams sine the 60s. They've had some good chances to win, and I can't say that they were unlucky when they lost those chances. They should have won in '86, and they should have won the pennant in '78. They could have won in '75. What would have happened if Grady Little took out Pedro? No, the Red Sox have had opportunities to make their own luck. I cannot say that they were unlucky. After the first big dynasty endied in 1964, the Yankees have won 6 titles. The Red Sox could have won some of their own. To blame the umps and some curse for having only won only once since then is so wrongheaded. I still don't know why this mindset persists after the Red Sox finally won one. It's like seeing White Sox fans still bitter about the Cubs after last year's success.

[Der Trommler]

The mindset of the hated yanks are much deeper. Boston is very proud of their teams. They are proud to the point that people will go watch a team that won't make the playoffs.....but don't be fooled, Boston is a sports town.

Ok, so then how does it not be the officiating, luck, curse that made these teams lose? All those teams should've won, but didn't. Yanks teams won when perhaps shouldn't....how? By just skill. A bloop broken bat hit that scores a run is not luck?

It's a combination & yes, when there is a BETTER team on the field, I will call it by such. But I still know that the Yanks don't deserve to be where they were or are....Prior successes? I'll give them that but since the early 90's, they have been the ones who really don't deserve it. For many reasons beyond just a good farm team. I can't believe that the Yanks would win all the time for just having a good farm team. Even with that much untested 'talent' it stands to reason they may still ot be that good. I've seen much more talented teams with just a good farm teams do nothing. How does that happen? Teams slated to be the ones going to the World Series not to even make the playoffs....there have been a ton of reasons but many times, simple luck & officiating will help the teams whose name is untarnished gain favors.....Therefore, the hatred of the Yanks are much more founded. Are you a Yanks fan....Do you watch many Yanks games? I watched almost every Yanks/Sox game.....If I go by your standard, then the Sox have sucked for the last 86 years prior to winning. Because the Yanks hold the record....

 

[Jewel Out of Reach]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jun 4 2006, 12:28 PM)

Boston is a blue-collared team. Players have to think & play like this in order to gain respect of Boston fans.

u know what, i think this hits the nail on the head. we are a bc team. it makes sense now u say it. the 'idiots', even. 04 had that feeling. we won, but along the way was great chemistry, comraderie, and shennanigans. what's left now isn't the same. manny isn't even "being manny" anymore. that spirit's gone. sure, there's still terrific players left, and great new ones. but it's still a blue-collar team. kinda bruce-springsteen-ish. i think this new redsox are a bit humbler, having lost some key dudes. not that they were outrageous and snotty in 04- they weren't. but they were celebratory and it was good to see them being silly on the field and dugout and such. now they're a bit toned-down. i wonder about any bad blood between those that left a la damon and those still in boston. u know, ex teammates aren't going to bash damon in public/press. i wonder if there were some rifts caused there

[Der Trommler]

maybe a bit....the players have respect but, to go to NYY? I wouldn't be happy if he was on my team.....But I think that was what I was trying to say all along & kept replying in the same terms....It's like redundant...over & over again.....

[Jewel Out of Reach]

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 4 2006, 01:05 PM)

The blue collar thing is another concept created by marketing departments and sportswriters. I don't necessarily buy into it. These guys make millions, and as such it will always be difficult for the average fan to identify with and relate to them. And those prices to see a game at the park are anything but blue collar today.

ok, i agree with that too. it's got to be true, about the marketing. on the other hand tho, they do reflect a BC life, with the possible exception of Papi and his bling! lol

fenway is the most expensive park in the league, if not the nation. why? i mean, really- why? what for? it's not new, it's not big. it's not spiffy. (of course it does have, along with yawkey way, a certain olden-days charm)

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (Jewel Out of Reach @ Jun 5 2006, 01:53 PM)

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 4 2006, 01:05 PM) The blue collar thing is another concept created by marketing departments and sportswriters.  I don't necessarily buy into it.  These guys make millions, and as such it will always be difficult for the average fan to identify with and relate to them.  And those prices to see a game at the park are anything but blue collar today. ok, i agree with that too. it's got to be true, about the marketing. on the other hand tho, they do reflect a BC life, with the possible exception of Papi and his bling! lol fenway is the most expensive park in the league, if not the nation. why? i mean, really- why? what for? it's not new, it's not big. it's not spiffy. (of course it does have, along with yawkey way, a certain olden-days charm) Yeah....they just won the Championship & that played a part. But, it has everything to do with supply & demand. The demand is HUGE!!! The place is sold out the entire way!!!!

[anagramking]

This might shock you, DT, but I am NOT a Yankee fan. I grew up a Dodger fan. I lived through the pain of the Bronx Zoo years in the late 70s. 1981 was all the sweeter because of that. And it was nice to see them fall on their faces through the rest of the 80s, though I'm sure you enjoyed that even more than I did. These days, I just love baseball. I don't seem to have a default team anymore, though I secretly hope the D-Backs (my hometown team) can come back to prominence someday. It's okay to not like the Yankees. Don't let it cloud your baseball sense, though. Just wanted to get that part out of the way.

 

The Yanks had more than a farm system. They also made some key pickups along the way. Nobody does it on farm systems alone in this day and age. Go back to those late 90s teams and find me the big ticket free agents that George splurged on. Not the home grown players, and not the players they traded for. Who were the big ticket free agents? Joe Torre also has done a great job running the club since 1996, it should be added.

 

Of course Fenway is always sold out. It's not a big park, and it has a great history. And yes, the Red Sox compete nearly every year. Wrigley always sells out, and the Cubs are horrible this year. It is true that winning is the best way to sell tickets, though. The Cubs are the big exception to this rule.

 

I don't think Damon's teammates in Boston cared so much that he went to the Yanks. As I said, there are only about eight of them left. Come free agency and big offers, most of them would leave, too. Yes, even for the Yankees. That's how it is today. The players don't buy into the rivalry like the fans do. Most players are mercenaries at heart. The rivalry is perpetuated by marketing departments and sportswriters and the fans themselves. It is not perpetuated so much by the players. The Yankees and Red Sox are in the same division, and they usually finish 1-2 in the division. That is also why there's a rivalry. That and the proximity of the two cities.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[crushtopher]

True the Red Sox finally won a world series with Johnny Damon. The folks at beantown need to be reminded that Damon played with KC long before he played for Boston. Everybody from Boston acts like he is Benedict Arnold for signing with the Yankees....give me a break . This is the world of professional sports were any player is fair game if the money is right. Ask the Twins if Big Poppy is as equal a trader to their organization for leaving to the east coast. Boston could have matched new Yorks offer . They didnt want to give him a 5 year contract they only offered 3 . Boston betrayed themselves ....that is my oppinion.

 

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 5 2006, 05:07 PM)

Joe Torre also has done a great job running the club since 1996, it should be added.

This, I will agree definitely. He is one of the reasons I can respect them a bit more....I've grown up a baseball fan. I played & should've continued. But I can say that I can look at any other team with the same amount of equality as each EXCEPT SOX & YANKS.....I guess maybe because it has ALWAYS been there my whole life....

 

Well, I should add that the players do get a bit hyped up on the rivaly. Remember, when Pedro motioned to hitting Posada's head? The players do get up in it...If the players live in the respective city enough, they get really worked....I do wish the trading/free agency was cut back a bit. I'm not saying to kill it all but there is WAY too much movement & makes the game less fun to watch. Rivalry was one of the things that was so great (back in the day).....They should hate each other.....Same thing foes fo hockey

[anagramking]

The Yanks and Sox compete in the same division and finish 1-2 nearly every year, as I said before. That is what makes the rivalry go. When I followed the Dodgers, first it was the Reds in the 70s. Then the Giants. Then the Astros. Those were the main competitors in the NL West back then. The rivalry with the Giants has greater historical implications, going all the way back to when they were both in New York until the late 50s. After the late 80s, that rivalry hasn't been that big. There haven't been too many instances of years where the teams have both been competing at the highest level. It's not the same as it once was. There's still a lot of Dodger hate in San Fran (in LA there's more apathy than anything else), but the rivalry is pretty dull today. The other rivalries I mentioned were pretty strong 25-30 years ago. Nowadays, they're nonexistent. That was all about competing against other good teams in the same division.

 

If the Red Sox and Yankees descend into mediocrity, nobody is going to care when they play each other. It will be a big nonevent, like when NL West teams play each other.

[Der Trommler]

I agree & disagree, the fans would be the only ones that do...I know too many Sox fans who think more dangerously than I. You are wearing a NYY cap & you are asking for trouble.....While I do not think that bad, I still will always hate them....probably even if they are cellar dwellers...

 

Too bad though....rivalries make good conversation as well as it becomes more interesting for those not involved....

[anagramking]

QUOTE (Der Trommler @ Jun 5 2006, 05:30 PM)

I agree & disagree, the fans would be the only ones that do...I know too many Sox fans who think more dangerously than I. You are wearing a NYY cap & you are asking for trouble.....While I do not think that bad, I still will always hate them....probably even if they are cellar dwellers... Too bad though....rivalries make good conversation as well as it becomes more interesting for those not involved....

I would never wear Yankee garb to Fenway, that's for sure. Just like I would never wear Cub garb to U.S. Cellular. I'd wear Dodger blue to a Giant game, though. Just to piss them off.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (anagramking @ Jun 5 2006, 06:56 PM)

Too bad though....rivalries make good conversation as well as it becomes more interesting for those not involved.... [/quote] I would never wear Yankee garb to Fenway, that's for sure. Just like I would never wear Cub garb to U.S. Cellular. I'd wear Dodger blue to a Giant game, though. Just to piss them off.

Actually, I've heard horror stories of people wearing Sox gear in Yankee stadium & getting their asses kicked....Couldn't find out who though....

[doubled_mystic]

plenty of horror stories for Yankee fans at Fenway.....a girl I know was brave enough to wear a Jeter replica jersey in to Fenway, sitting in the bleachers (this is where all the really wonderfully fun people are, who are drunk before they get in the gate), some guy tried to rip her shirt off saying something involving four letter words and Yankees S&^%...luckily she was wearing another shirt underneath and wisely took off the Jeter jersey (yes I'm a Sox fan, and no I don't advocat any of this behavior). Another good one, walked in to one of the bathrooms in Fenway, and saw 2 kids wearing Yankee hats, a couple of rather inebriated older gentlemen came in, took the kid's hats off and placed them in the urinals and proceed to relieve themselves on the hats.........yes, not even the kids are safe if wearing Yankee gear at fenway

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (doubled_mystic @ Jun 6 2006, 08:49 PM)

plenty of horror stories for Yankee fans at Fenway.....a girl I know was brave enough to wear a Jeter replica jersey in to Fenway, sitting in the bleachers (this is where all the really wonderfully fun people are, who are drunk before they get in the gate), some guy tried to rip her shirt off saying something involving four letter words and Yankees S&^%...luckily she was wearing another shirt underneath and wisely took off the Jeter jersey (yes I'm a Sox fan, and no I don't advocat any of this behavior). Another good one, walked in to one of the bathrooms in Fenway, and saw 2 kids wearing Yankee hats, a couple of rather inebriated older gentlemen came in, took the kid's hats off and placed them in the urinals and proceed to relieve themselves on the hats.........yes, not even the kids are safe if wearing Yankee gear at fenway

Yeah, I've heard of similar...Yanks fans just beat you to a pulp. I don't advocate any behavior like this at all but the rivalry is still in place....Sox hate Yanks & vice-versa....I like to keep it that way....Like the Habs & Bruins...I still hate the Habs but that lost it's luster.....

[Want2bLikeBrutus]

QUOTE (doubled_mystic @ Jun 6 2006, 07:49 PM)

plenty of horror stories for Yankee fans at Fenway.....a girl I know was brave enough to wear a Jeter replica jersey in to Fenway, sitting in the bleachers (this is where all the really wonderfully fun people are, who are drunk before they get in the gate), some guy tried to rip her shirt off saying something involving four letter words and Yankees S&^%...luckily she was wearing another shirt underneath

Well I'm all for girls taking off their shirts and even ripping them off myself but...

 

Thats not the time, place or reason!!! that kind of behavior is just inexcusable and makes me ashamed to be a sox fan.

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (Want2bLikeBrutus @ Jun 8 2006, 04:54 PM)

QUOTE (doubled_mystic @ Jun 6 2006, 07:49 PM) plenty of horror stories for Yankee fans at Fenway.....a girl I know was brave enough to wear a Jeter replica jersey in to Fenway, sitting in the bleachers (this is where all the really wonderfully fun people are, who are drunk before they get in the gate), some guy tried to rip her shirt off saying something involving four letter words and Yankees S&^%...luckily she was wearing another shirt underneath Well I'm all for girls taking off their shirts and even ripping them off myself but...   Thats not the time, place or reason!!! that kind of behavior is just inexcusable and makes me ashamed to be a sox fan. I'm not sure why these people did it. Sox fans are vocal but not THAT violent. I usually leave it up to the Yanks fans to come up with that behavoir. Well, I guess you put a few too many in someone & they'll come up with something new...I am a bit ashamed of that as well....