String Gauges

[Indica]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Sep 27 2005, 08:07 AM)

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Sep 27 2005, 07:32 AM) Sometimes with lighter strings, it feels like you have to chase them around because they move around too much. also they dont give you enough resistance so its harder to know what you are doing to them by feel, if that makes any sense. That makes perfect sense, and that's exactly what I was experiencing...only I didn't realize it until I played the heavier strings. It was like, "Eureka!"   QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Sep 27 2005, 07:32 AM) Also I believe (I could be wrong) that its easier to get nasty fret noise from thin, loose strings because they vibrate "sloppily" so then you have to raise your action ever so slightly which defeats some of the purpose of having thin strings to begin with. Right again. As I was tuning the new strings to pitch for the first time I found myself lowering the bridge saddles for each string. I actually have lower action and less buzz now. I swear, this Strat is set up better now than when I bought it new in 1992. I feel like I'm playing someone else's guitar that I like better than mine! I'm glad to hear that 1-0-0-1-0-0-1, it sounds like your guitar is better than ever. I went through the same thing with my 78 Les Paul, a number of my problems went away (all the ones mentioned in this thread) once I went with bigger strings.   These threads are really great for people who are just starting out because it took me years to figure out how to take care of these problems and the answer was so easy. Sure I comprimized a little on feel but it was way worth it not to keep tuning my guitar between every couple songs on stage (Very unprofessional if you ask me) and fixing this problem made me a lot more comfortable up there which made for a better show. Little details go a long way when it comes to a delicate instrument.   A forum like this is a great idea because everyone has input through experience, also someone who just started playing can teach me/us something we never though about in years of playing, the more imput the better.

[Digital Man]

QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 26 2005, 02:59 PM)

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Sep 24 2005, 05:37 PM) QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 21 2005, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Sep 21 2005, 02:23 PM) For Indica, you obviously need one: http://www.unclesgames.com/images/products/big/073000000455_big.jpg Instead of being a f***ing smart ass can you please explain what the f**k you mean by that? What because I thrashed my guitar? Because the type of strings I used? This type of comments is what sucks about forums, I hate smart ass people like that, at least be a man and explain what the f**k you mean. I agree Indica ... I have been playing guitar/bass/drums/keys since I was 8. Played professionally for 10 years, worked in music shops, owned over 30 differents guitars/basses over the years. I know my stuff, but I am sometimes afraid or timid to post in this forum as I know lord Cyg is looming to pounce on any opinion, misused term etc ... that may be posted. I understand that he has worked in the field most of his life, is a music libraian, was schooled in it, his dad was a music guy etc etc etc ... but just like a Dr. with bad bedside manners, he could use a little sensitivity training. I mean, i fel that i need to research to post here so i will use the right terms, etc LOL!!!   Cyg, I sincerely respect your knowledge in these field, I feel confident that if I have a question, you can answer it. Just venting a little, sorry bro, this has built up since 02 ... I mean, if I am timid to post here, I would hate to think what a beginer would feel.   Back to the topic.   I used a peavey Deuce amp for many years in the 80s, had a 4 10 cab under it, it was very versatile with the dual channels and had that great tube sound. I hope that helps 1001 This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen. Good honesty there Lee.     Someone telling me to get a clue when I post something the to me it's like someone telling me "You don't know shit".... Well 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 asked what gauge strings people use and I answered the question (a great answer I may add) and someone tells me I need a clue, what kind of shit is that? I played for years using Ernie ball strings, usually pretty light gauge ones because they were easier to play leads and when I first started playing and the type of music that we played had some rough lead parts in them. My style changed a bit over the years and I wanted a more bassy tone and I played less Randy rhodes and more tool like music, so swtiching to heavier strings was great for what I needed. The Bottom end was better, they stayed in tune better even though I thrashed my guitars at intense points of the show and I didn't have to change my stings as often and I maintained my good tone. Not to mention it seemed easier to set my intonation for some reason. Why? Maybe Cyg can answer that, that would be nice if so. But I don't know the situation with his guitar and sometimes looking at it would help tons. (sorry)       Anyway, I'm not going to be afraid/intimidated to post here although I may not be able to explain things as good as others. I feel it would be a waste for me to stop posting when I can offer good information from time to time. Having 25 years experience really helps someone to know a nice amount of info. It wouldn't have been such BS if I actually said something stupid, which I'm sure I do from time to time. No sense in acting like that, If someone don't like me they should be mature about it and just don't answer my posts, no need for head trips.   If I say something that's not correct, by all means correct it, that way I can learn from a mistake, making snide smart ass remarks doesn't help anyone except maybe the person doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves. Beats me. These posts are a little too dramatic. Cyg doesn't deserve these comments. Being sure of the terms used in here seems like a good idea to me as it is the "technical music" forum. I thought that was the whole point of this Forum?   Cyg is just secure in the knowledge that he has and he's very confident. Some people don't have that level of confidence & it can come across as cocky to others. (I know I have been known to do it when I talk to people about computers & networks). He is just trying to get it discussed in the proper context & terms, again because that is what this Forum was designed for.

[Indica]

QUOTE (Digital Man @ Sep 27 2005, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 26 2005, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (ES-335 @ Sep 24 2005, 05:37 PM) QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 21 2005, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Sep 21 2005, 02:23 PM) For Indica, you obviously need one: http://www.unclesgames.com/images/products/big/073000000455_big.jpg Instead of being a f***ing smart ass can you please explain what the f**k you mean by that? What because I thrashed my guitar? Because the type of strings I used? This type of comments is what sucks about forums, I hate smart ass people like that, at least be a man and explain what the f**k you mean. I agree Indica ... I have been playing guitar/bass/drums/keys since I was 8. Played professionally for 10 years, worked in music shops, owned over 30 differents guitars/basses over the years. I know my stuff, but I am sometimes afraid or timid to post in this forum as I know lord Cyg is looming to pounce on any opinion, misused term etc ... that may be posted. I understand that he has worked in the field most of his life, is a music libraian, was schooled in it, his dad was a music guy etc etc etc ... but just like a Dr. with bad bedside manners, he could use a little sensitivity training. I mean, i fel that i need to research to post here so i will use the right terms, etc LOL!!!   Cyg, I sincerely respect your knowledge in these field, I feel confident that if I have a question, you can answer it. Just venting a little, sorry bro, this has built up since 02 ... I mean, if I am timid to post here, I would hate to think what a beginer would feel.   Back to the topic.   I used a peavey Deuce amp for many years in the 80s, had a 4 10 cab under it, it was very versatile with the dual channels and had that great tube sound. I hope that helps 1001 This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen. Good honesty there Lee.     Someone telling me to get a clue when I post something the to me it's like someone telling me "You don't know shit".... Well 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 asked what gauge strings people use and I answered the question (a great answer I may add) and someone tells me I need a clue, what kind of shit is that? I played for years using Ernie ball strings, usually pretty light gauge ones because they were easier to play leads and when I first started playing and the type of music that we played had some rough lead parts in them. My style changed a bit over the years and I wanted a more bassy tone and I played less Randy rhodes and more tool like music, so swtiching to heavier strings was great for what I needed. The Bottom end was better, they stayed in tune better even though I thrashed my guitars at intense points of the show and I didn't have to change my stings as often and I maintained my good tone. Not to mention it seemed easier to set my intonation for some reason. Why? Maybe Cyg can answer that, that would be nice if so. But I don't know the situation with his guitar and sometimes looking at it would help tons. (sorry)       Anyway, I'm not going to be afraid/intimidated to post here although I may not be able to explain things as good as others. I feel it would be a waste for me to stop posting when I can offer good information from time to time. Having 25 years experience really helps someone to know a nice amount of info. It wouldn't have been such BS if I actually said something stupid, which I'm sure I do from time to time. No sense in acting like that, If someone don't like me they should be mature about it and just don't answer my posts, no need for head trips.   If I say something that's not correct, by all means correct it, that way I can learn from a mistake, making snide smart ass remarks doesn't help anyone except maybe the person doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves. Beats me. These posts are a little too dramatic. Cyg doesn't deserve these comments. Being sure of the terms used in here seems like a good idea to me as it is the "technical music" forum. I thought that was the whole point of this Forum?   Cyg is just secure in the knowledge that he has and he's very confident. Some people don't have that level of confidence & it can come across as cocky to others. (I know I have been known to do it when I talk to people about computers & networks). He is just trying to get it discussed in the proper context & terms, again because that is what this Forum was designed for. The thing is I don't recall anyone not using incorrect terms. All I seen was a smart ass snide remark with no reason for it what so ever. If someone says something wrong then by all means someone should correct it, that way everyone learns from it. The way I look at it, I didn't deserve the smart ass remark in the first place and I'm surprized only ES picked up on that. It's actually pretty sad really. It would be a shame if only one person would respond to the posts when people ask questions. Theres no reason for someone to have a head trip so bad that others cant throw in their 2 cents. Like I said if I ever said something that wasn't correct, I wouldn't care a bit to be corrected. But that's not the case here, I guess it takes for the snide remarks to be directed to each person before some pickup on it that it's not constructive in any way. For instance if you posted something and I told you that you needed to get a clue, I promise you that you wouldn't like it. Forums like this are great for people needing help but uncalled for snide remarks helps no one.     Anyway back on topic of stings. I'm curious if anyone else have tried elixir strings and do they like them and think they are worth the extra money? I'm a cheap0 and I don't mind paying a little more for something if they are worth it and I feel these strings are worth it bigtime. I suggest anyone who haven't tried them to give them a try and see if they see a difference.

Edited September 27, 2005 by Indica

[My_Shrimp_Cot]

There is something else I noticed after changing string sizes. If you change string gauges, you change the tension on the neck and then you can re-set everything up until it's in tune with no buzz and nice action. But there seems to be a settling period where the guitar will/may change again over the next few days.

 

I guess my point is, dont be surprised if the guitar sounds like crap in a couple days and you have to do some more minor tweaking.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Sep 27 2005, 05:03 PM)

There is something else I noticed after changing string sizes. If you change string gauges, you change the tension on the neck and then you can re-set everything up until it's in tune with no buzz and nice action. But there seems to be a settling period where the guitar will/may change again over the next few days. I guess my point is, dont be surprised if the guitar sounds like crap in a couple days and you have to do some more minor tweaking.

I think I'll notice that more with my Les Paul with its fixed tailpiece (I need to get it back from my friend who borrowed it and do the string change). The floating bridge on the Strat seems pretty forgiving. I've had the new strings on there for five days and nothing's changed as far as I can tell. But I certainly won't be surprised if some tweaking is necessary in the near future.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (Digital Man @ Sep 27 2005, 12:09 PM)

These posts are a little too dramatic. Cyg doesn't deserve these comments. Being sure of the terms used in here seems like a good idea to me as it is the "technical music" forum. I thought that was the whole point of this Forum? Cyg is just secure in the knowledge that he has and he's very confident. Some people don't have that level of confidence & it can come across as cocky to others. (I know I have been known to do it when I talk to people about computers & networks). He is just trying to get it discussed in the proper context & terms, again because that is what this Forum was designed for.

I couldn't agree more.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 27 2005, 12:54 PM)

I'm curious if anyone else have tried elixir strings and do they like them and think they are worth the extra money? I'm a cheap0 and I don't mind paying a little more for something if they are worth it and I feel these strings are worth it bigtime. I suggest anyone who haven't tried them to give them a try and see if they see a difference.

I've seen you and Fuzzplug rave about these Elixir strings. I'm not a big fan of the Blue Steel-type strings but I can see trying these. How much for a set?

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Elixirs cost around $10 a pack.

 

I use Ernie Ball Skinny Top Heavy Bottom because of the gauge. They last pretty long and are fairly inexpensive. In a pinch I will go with GHS, Dean Markley, DR or D'Addario for electric. Markleys fade the quickest I've noticed.

I like D'Addario or Martin acoustic strings.

Until recently I was using Fender nickel wound on my basses but GC doesn't carry them anymore so I am now using GHS Boomers again. They retain brightness for a long time and are inexpensive. I used to use RotoSound before Fender, but they don't stay as bright for as long.

 

Yes thicker strings will increase neck tension as well. Stevie Ray used to replace necks regularly because he was using .013's. Adjusting the bow of a Strat neck can be a pain if your truss rod is only accessable under the pickguard (like mine). If you are inexperienced doing so you may want to have it done for you, as you can really damage a nice guitar with one bad truss rod tweak (snap!). When upping string gauges you should tune the guitar to pitch then check neck alignment before intonating. Hold the guitar as if it were hanging from a strap and look down the strings from behind the bridge to see the bow of the neck. If you need to make an adjustment do so in small increments so as to not over compensate. If there is too much of a dip tighten the truss rod in 1/8 to 1/4 turn increments. This should be done slowly. After a truss rod turn let the guitar rest for a few minutes then check again then repeat until the neck seems straight. You don't want to do this drastically.

 

I can't remember what string company it was that put string tension graphs on thier string packs. It was very interesting to see that generally G and B strings have less tension than the other 4 strings.

 

 

 

[Indica]

Here's a webpage that talks a lot about this subject.

 

Adjustment and Care

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Man that is really detailed. I don't have feeler gauges. I have always done neck adjustments by sight and feel.

I recommend the Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer which is where I got a lot of tech info. It covers everything from history to players to theory to maintanence to repair and schematics. It has been updated over the years and is a great all around book to have around.

 

 

[hentorstrat]

It was mentioned to file "out " the nut slots to accomodate larger strings. Also, if the nut slots are too high, the open strings will be in tune, but as you go up the neck, the intonation will not be correct, because the string has a longer distance to travel.

[ES-335]

QUOTE (Digital Man @ Sep 27 2005, 11:09 AM)

QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 26 2005, 02:59 PM) QUOTE (ES-335 @ Sep 24 2005, 05:37 PM) QUOTE (Indica @ Sep 21 2005, 02:16 PM) QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Sep 21 2005, 02:23 PM) For Indica, you obviously need one: http://www.unclesgames.com/images/products/big/073000000455_big.jpg Instead of being a f***ing smart ass can you please explain what the f**k you mean by that? What because I thrashed my guitar? Because the type of strings I used? This type of comments is what sucks about forums, I hate smart ass people like that, at least be a man and explain what the f**k you mean. I agree Indica ... I have been playing guitar/bass/drums/keys since I was 8. Played professionally for 10 years, worked in music shops, owned over 30 differents guitars/basses over the years. I know my stuff, but I am sometimes afraid or timid to post in this forum as I know lord Cyg is looming to pounce on any opinion, misused term etc ... that may be posted. I understand that he has worked in the field most of his life, is a music libraian, was schooled in it, his dad was a music guy etc etc etc ... but just like a Dr. with bad bedside manners, he could use a little sensitivity training. I mean, i fel that i need to research to post here so i will use the right terms, etc LOL!!!   Cyg, I sincerely respect your knowledge in these field, I feel confident that if I have a question, you can answer it. Just venting a little, sorry bro, this has built up since 02 ... I mean, if I am timid to post here, I would hate to think what a beginer would feel.   Back to the topic.   I used a peavey Deuce amp for many years in the 80s, had a 4 10 cab under it, it was very versatile with the dual channels and had that great tube sound. I hope that helps 1001 This has got to be one of the best posts I've ever seen. Good honesty there Lee.     Someone telling me to get a clue when I post something the to me it's like someone telling me "You don't know shit".... Well 1-0-0-1-0-0-1 asked what gauge strings people use and I answered the question (a great answer I may add) and someone tells me I need a clue, what kind of shit is that? I played for years using Ernie ball strings, usually pretty light gauge ones because they were easier to play leads and when I first started playing and the type of music that we played had some rough lead parts in them. My style changed a bit over the years and I wanted a more bassy tone and I played less Randy rhodes and more tool like music, so swtiching to heavier strings was great for what I needed. The Bottom end was better, they stayed in tune better even though I thrashed my guitars at intense points of the show and I didn't have to change my stings as often and I maintained my good tone. Not to mention it seemed easier to set my intonation for some reason. Why? Maybe Cyg can answer that, that would be nice if so. But I don't know the situation with his guitar and sometimes looking at it would help tons. (sorry)       Anyway, I'm not going to be afraid/intimidated to post here although I may not be able to explain things as good as others. I feel it would be a waste for me to stop posting when I can offer good information from time to time. Having 25 years experience really helps someone to know a nice amount of info. It wouldn't have been such BS if I actually said something stupid, which I'm sure I do from time to time. No sense in acting like that, If someone don't like me they should be mature about it and just don't answer my posts, no need for head trips.   If I say something that's not correct, by all means correct it, that way I can learn from a mistake, making snide smart ass remarks doesn't help anyone except maybe the person doing it to make themselves feel better about themselves. Beats me. These posts are a little too dramatic. Cyg doesn't deserve these comments. Being sure of the terms used in here seems like a good idea to me as it is the "technical music" forum. I thought that was the whole point of this Forum?   Cyg is just secure in the knowledge that he has and he's very confident. Some people don't have that level of confidence & it can come across as cocky to others. (I know I have been known to do it when I talk to people about computers & networks). He is just trying to get it discussed in the proper context & terms, again because that is what this Forum was designed for. That is fine DM ... I respect your opinion.

[ES-335]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Sep 26 2005, 10:15 PM)

QUOTE (My_Shrimp_Cot @ Sep 26 2005, 08:35 PM) It seems strange that both your guitars are doing the same thing. Maybe something in your technique? Nice to get back on topic...thanks MSC!   The only way my technique would cause notes to be sharp would be if I pressed down too hard, or bent the strings as I fretted them. Neither is the case. I think I have a fairly "normal" touch on the fingerboard. And my picking technique is pretty light. Not a bad theory, though.   So, my Strat's transformation to heavier strings is complete, and I'm extremely pleased. As I said last week, I did have to file the nut slots out a bit on the E, A and D strings, and I might have to tweak the G string slot on the next string change (it's hanging up a bit, but some graphite may do the trick). I also added a fourth tremelo spring to compensate for the extra tension of the thicker strings. (I came across a great article on how to adjust your tremelo springs when going to thicker strings, which I'll post later.) I thought I would have to readjust the truss rod because of the extra tension, but the slight (and correct) curve the neck had before the string change was exactly the same afterwards. I thought that was strange at first, then I realized that the extra trem spring is taking up all that extra tension, thereby leaving the neck unaffected. (Sweet! But my Les Paul with its stop tailpiece will be a different story.)   I'm happy to report that my intonation is now nearly flawless. The low-E's bridge saddle is still pinned to the back of the bridge, but that string's intonation is 99% perfect now. If that saddle could go back another 1/64", it would be flawless, but it's close enough, and it's an obvious improvement from before. The heavier string made all the difference. (Thanks, Cyg!)   What else is better with these thicker strings? Umm...everything! Overall intonation of all six strings is better, especially the G string. (And what's better than a nice G-string? ) Tuning is easier and more accurate, and the guitar stays in tune better. The guitar just sounds thicker and stronger now. Chords ring out more clearly, and notes sound sharper. Power chords sound FAT. After playing light strings for so many years I thought it would be harder to bend strings, harder to get a good left hand vibrato, and harder to press down while playing chords. Bending is a little tougher, but nothing a little practice won't help. I notice a difference in my vibrato on the wound strings (the increase in string thickness is more extreme than on the plain strings), but again...practice, practice. And overall, it's easier to play now. The strings are so much more stable underneath my fingers on both chords and single notes. My playing has improved because of this -- and trust me, there's PLENTY of room for improvement! I wish I went to the light top/heavy bottom set sooner. It was the best thing I ever did to improve my guitar's performance and playability. Cool ... glad it is shaping up for you!! Also, i apologize for contributing to taking the topic off topic.

[ES-335]

Topic Off:

 

I re read this topic ... and to be brief (as brief as I can be )... I apologize to Cyg for my earlier diatribe. DM, you brought out a great point that made me think about it and I agree with your point. I still think that the get a clue post was a little harsh, but Cyg, you did say that it was a joke relatively soon after you posted it and we should have lightened up. Cyg is a great resource for this forum, as if that needed to be said ! LOL

 

Also, Cyg, I repsect the hell out of you for not replying to any of the susbsequent posts. That took a secure man to do that and i repsect that. On that same note, i don't expect you to reply to this post and that is fine.

 

Indi, I came to your defense and like you said at the time, it was my honest emotions. But even at 40, this old dog is still learning some new tricks and really, we could all try to be a little less defensive from time to time.

 

Cyg: thanks for your info on this forum as well as throughout the years. http://www.rushmessageboard.com/forums/cp/style_emoticons/default/hippie.gif

 

And DM, I hope you are not like this guy:

http://page3.gotdns.com/page3/yourewelcome.jpg

 

 

 

Topic on

 

 

 

[Indica]

QUOTE (ES-335 @ Oct 2 2005, 09:32 PM)

Topic Off: I re read this topic ... and to be brief (as brief as I can be )... I apologize to Cyg for my earlier diatribe. DM, you brought out a great point that made me think about it and I agree with your point. I still think that the get a clue post was a little harsh, but Cyg, you did say that it was a joke relatively soon after you posted it and we should have lightened up. Cyg is a great resource for this forum, as if that needed to be said ! LOL Also, Cyg, I repsect the hell out of you for not replying to any of the susbsequent posts.  That took a secure man to do that and i repsect that.  On that same note, i don't expect you to reply to this post and that is fine. Indi, I came to your defense and like you said at the time, it was my honest emotions. But even at 40, this old dog is still learning some new tricks and really, we could all try to be a little less defensive from time to time.

Yeah, I know what you mean there. I was definitely defensive but I'm not used to people talking to me that way so I got a little defensive. I also apoligize to cyg for going off. I also apoligize to everyone else for disrupting this thread. I hope we can all get along from now on, I don't see why we can't. I know it's not a good excuse but some weird things are happening to me lately as far as my health and it's starting to scare me, I got a lot of crap on my mind and when I get in those moods I am easily offended. But I can't expect everyone to know what's going on in my life and I shouldn't let anything said about me on the internet bother me in any way. I'm a better person that than, really I am.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Indica

[Modest Man From Mandrake]

I'm partial to thicker strings. Maybe cause I'm a bass player. I'm still trying to find a way to make Telephone cables a pratical type of guitar sting. Edited October 7, 2005 by Modest Man From Mandrake

[Dr.Gomez]