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What decade does Permanent Waves really belong in?


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#41 Narps

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:45 PM

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

When in 1979 was it recorded?
I just know the Pre tour or whatever you call it that I saw was in August of 79. They only played TSOR and Freewill...

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#42 Geddy's Soul Patch

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:46 PM

Definitely 70s, when it was created

#43 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:46 PM

View PostNarpski, on 01 October 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

When in 1979 was it recorded?
I just know the Pre tour or whatever you call it that I saw was in August of 79. They only played TSOR and Freewill...

And they weren't the final versions. Different solos.

#44 Lorraine

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:47 PM

View Posttoymaker, on 01 October 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound.  It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

i think it is half and half.  Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album.  Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart.  It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

#45 Lorraine

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:48 PM

Savage, just admit Eagle is right and be done with it.  :lol:

#46 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:48 PM

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

View Posttoymaker, on 01 October 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound.  It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

i think it is half and half.  Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album.  Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart.  It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

Eh. What a way to quickly knock Permanent Waves out of the #1 spot.....Closer to the Heart? No thanks...

#47 EagleMoon

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:49 PM

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

Eh, you have a good response there... :/

I don't know.

Movies and music are different to me. It's dependent on when they are publicly released because they are being produced mainly for public consumption.

Paintings are more personal...

Eh. You have a good point :)

The real question is when is the work conisdered "finished"? Usually it's not until actual release.

I really like your response by the way :) :) :)

Thanks. :-) I guess after being in the business for a lot of years I am aware of what belongs to the artist and what belongs to the public. Rushs music for example is their own property even though their distribution rights have been given to the record companies. So when they created it would have to be when it became a product. It was influenced by what came before, which would make it a product of the 70s. The 80s hadn't happened yet, so it can't be a product of that decade.

#48 Lorraine

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:49 PM

View PostNarpski, on 01 October 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

When in 1979 was it recorded?
I just know the Pre tour or whatever you call it that I saw was in August of 79. They only played TSOR and Freewill...

So the entire album was probably recorded by then and finished?

#49 Narps

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

Eh, you have a good response there... :/

I don't know.

Movies and music are different to me. It's dependent on when they are publicly released because they are being produced mainly for public consumption.

Paintings are more personal...

Eh. You have a good point :)

The real question is when is the work conisdered "finished"? Usually it's not until actual release.

I really like your response by the way :) :) :)

Thanks. :-) I guess after being in the business for a lot of years I am aware of what belongs to the artist and what belongs to the public. Rushs music for example is their own property even though their distribution rights have been given to the record companies. So when they created it would have to be when it became a product. It was influenced by what came before, which would make it a product of the 70s. The 80s hadn't happened yet, so it can't be a product of that decade.
:goodone: Deep....

#50 toymaker

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:50 PM

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

View Posttoymaker, on 01 October 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound.  It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

i think it is half and half.  Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album.  Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart.  It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

Interesting . . . as I recall, you're not a fan of Closer to the Heart.  I think you're right that there's something about the atmosphere of Jacob's Ladder that allows it to snuggle in with Xanadu, maybe.

#51 Lorraine

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:51 PM

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:47 PM, said:

View Posttoymaker, on 01 October 2014 - 04:44 PM, said:

The somewhat brighter production and shorter songs may make it seem like 80s Rush, but it doesn't have the cheeseball 80s synth sound.  It feels 70sish to me, but I also think it's kind of a threshold thing - definitely looking back and looking forward.

i think it is half and half.  Some of the songs seem to not belong on that particular album.  Jacob's Ladder should have been swapped with Closer To The Heart.  It fits more on AFTK than CTTH does.

Eh. What a way to quickly knock Permanent Waves out of the #1 spot.....Closer to the Heart? No thanks...

I don't like the song either, but Jacob's Ladder is out of place on Permanent Waves.  It sounds more like it belongs on AFTK.  

Does anyone here know when that song was written?  It might have been written around the  mid-seventies.

#52 Narps

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:51 PM

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

View PostNarpski, on 01 October 2014 - 04:45 PM, said:

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

When in 1979 was it recorded?
I just know the Pre tour or whatever you call it that I saw was in August of 79. They only played TSOR and Freewill...

So the entire album was probably recorded by then and finished?
I don't know but somehow I doubt it.... :huh:

#53 LedRush

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:55 PM

http://www.therushfo...ermanent waves

#54 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:55 PM

View PostLorraine, on 01 October 2014 - 04:48 PM, said:

Savage, just admit Eagle is right and be done with it.  :lol:

Release date determines when something is eligible for awards...like the Academy Awards..

Permanent Waves could only win an Oscar for the year it was officially released....which was 1980..

(I'm not bringing up the stupid Grammy's)
Writing, production, recording, mixing, mastering, art direction, marketing, etc are all parts of the creation of a work like this, especially with a big band like this.

The release itself is part of the creation process. It's a national or bigger release.

The artist/producers choose when to release something.

The marketing is all part of the creative process. The "creation" of the work does not end until it is released.

Rush wanted to release it in 1980 and so they did therefore making it an official 1980 release.

I'm going to respect their release method.

Permanent Waves is a 1980 album.

#55 LedRush

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:55 PM

Obviously 70s.  Written, recorded, produced, packaged and shipped in the 70s.

#56 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 04:58 PM

View PostNarpski, on 01 October 2014 - 04:50 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:49 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:41 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:37 PM, said:

View Postsavagegrace26, on 01 October 2014 - 04:33 PM, said:

View PostEagleMoon, on 01 October 2014 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm not sure I understand the question. If it was created in the 70s, why wouldn't that make it a product of that decade?

http://www.therushfo...n/#entry3299129

Yes and...? It doesn't really matter when the public heard it. What matters is when it was created. It's their music not ours. If an artist paints a painting in December of one year but doesn't put it up in a gallery until January of the next year that doesn't change the fact that it was created in the previous year.

Eh, you have a good response there... :/

I don't know.

Movies and music are different to me. It's dependent on when they are publicly released because they are being produced mainly for public consumption.

Paintings are more personal...

Eh. You have a good point :)

The real question is when is the work conisdered "finished"? Usually it's not until actual release.

I really like your response by the way :) :) :)

Thanks. :-) I guess after being in the business for a lot of years I am aware of what belongs to the artist and what belongs to the public. Rushs music for example is their own property even though their distribution rights have been given to the record companies. So when they created it would have to be when it became a product. It was influenced by what came before, which would make it a product of the 70s. The 80s hadn't happened yet, so it can't be a product of that decade.
:goodone: Deep....

Read my post above. For a public artist the release date and marketing  is just as much a creative factor as the writing and recording. They are releasing a "product". Sorry, I disagree with you.

#57 toymaker

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:00 PM

It is a "Janus-faced" album.

#58 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:07 PM

Marketing and distribution is just as important in this process as everything else. It was released in 1980.

#59 Lorraine

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:10 PM

We know Neil considers Permanent Waves the start of Rush's "adulthood", but has either Geddy or Neil ever mentioned anything?

#60 savagegrace26

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Posted 01 October 2014 - 05:11 PM

Example. There is a movie called The Plot Against Harry.

It was shelved for over 20 years and not released until 1989.

"The film was shot in black and white in the late 1960s and was not given a proper release. Almost exactly twenty years later, in 1989, it was discovered and given a proper release for the first time."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0064820/

It's listed as "1989" everywhere even though it was shot and edited over 20 years prior.




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