len(songs) Posted August 30, 2014 Share Posted August 30, 2014 Metallic/metal Rush songs: •Working Man?•Anthem•Bastille Day•Under The Shadow (heaviest period)•2112 Overture/TOS?•Jacob's Ladder Part 2 (unofficial but clear what it is)•Between The Wheels•Stick It Out•Test For Echo?•Driven?•One Little Victory•Certain parts of Armor and Sword•BU2B•The verse riff of Carnies is certainly metallic•Headlong Flight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) "they were definitely a huge influence on what would eventually become known as "heavy metal". They were pioneers and that crazy instrumental section in Under the Shadow sounds more like metal than almost anything else from the early 70's. Let them be metal. " Makes no sense to me. Rush was mostly unknown before 1976. Black Sabbath's Paranoid was released in 1970. No matter, we have different ideas about what is heavy metal, obviously. Edited August 31, 2014 by Rutlefan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pars123 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 It's just music???... Haha I'm kidding, I have to label everything. Rush are Progressive Hard Rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 ^ +1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted August 31, 2014 Share Posted August 31, 2014 (edited) "they were definitely a huge influence on what would eventually become known as "heavy metal". They were pioneers and that crazy instrumental section in Under the Shadow sounds more like metal than almost anything else from the early 70's. Let them be metal. " Makes no sense to me. Rush was mostly unknown before 1976. Black Sabbath's Paranoid was released in 1970. No matter, we have different ideas about what is heavy metal, obviously. Yes because you apparently have some personal definition of what heavy metal is rather than what it actually is. You may be confusing it with one of the many subgenres heavy metal eventually branched out to. Edited August 31, 2014 by savagegrace26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 You think Rush is heavy metal, which shows that you have no idea what is heavy metal. You were minus 5 years old when Black Sabbath was defining the genre, so what do you know. The only "metal" that remotely applies to Rush is prog metal; not the same thing as heavy metal. And your use of Wikipedia to defend your claim? WIkipedia is written by any old knob that wants to throw in an opinion. You can also find on Wikipedia that Rush is hard rock and progressive rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) You think Rush is heavy metal, which shows that you have no idea what is heavy metal. You were minus 5 years old when Black Sabbath was defining the genre, so what do you know. The only "metal" that remotely applies to Rush is prog metal; not the same thing as heavy metal. And your use of Wikipedia to defend your claim? WIkipedia is written by any old knob that wants to throw in an opinion. You can also find on Wikipedia that Rush is hard rock and progressive rock. I never said they were excusively heavy metal. Please tell me where I said that. I said they fit within the genre as defined within that time period. Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Rush fits right alongside other bands that are defined as heavy metal in the 1970s: Zeppelin, Sabbath, Deep Purple, etc. Oviously heavy metal would get heavier as it evolved but it started in the 70's and if you don't include Rush you're just being overly pedantic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Led Zeppelin was never heavy metal. Whole Lotta Love maybe/partly, maybe Immigrant Song, but a couple songs don't make them heavy metal anymore than The Beatles' numerous country songs makes them a country music band. And Rush does not fit alongside Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. I knew people who liked all those bands; I also knew Rush fans in the mid/late '70s who wouldn't be caught dead listening to Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, etc. because they weren't heavy metal fans. Edited September 1, 2014 by Rutlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Led Zeppelin was never heavy metal. Whole Lotta Love maybe/partly, maybe Immigrant Song, but a couple songs don't make them heavy metal anymore than The Beatles' numerous country songs makes them a country music band. And Rush does not fit alongside Black Sabbath and Deep Purple. I knew people who liked all those bands; I also knew Rush fans in the mid/late '70s who wouldn't be caught dead listening to Black Sabbath, Iron Maiden, Motorhead, etc. because they weren't heavy metal fans. So you base these classifications entirely on anecdotal evidence? Ok... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) http://trickledown.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hmngp9.jpg Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 http://www.welovemetal.com/newsite/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/periodic_table_of_metal.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) http://trickledown.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/hmngp9.jpg Nice chart, but the OP's question was "Is Rush heavy metal?" I don't see a "heavy metal" category here but Rush is listed in Progressive Metal, which I wouldn't disagree with, though I think they're more accurately described as progressive hard rock, up until the synth era at least. No matter, they're not heavy metal in either case. You keep throwing out Wikipedia bs and entertaining charts (wtf is "Alkali Metal" except for a cutesy periodic table joke) for some unknown reason, as they aren't supporting the claim that Rush is "heavy metal." Are they metal in that they can be called prog metal? Yes, as has been said several times. But that wasn't the OP's question. I look forward to your next offer of irrelevant evidence (this chart includes punk groups, so it's hard to imagine what the overarching genre is supposed to be -- loud guitar music?). Your MO is to say something idiotic or incoherent and then double down on it when called out. Edited September 1, 2014 by Rutlefan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. P. L. Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 I read the title and immediately thought: "Where's King Troll??" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Progressive Metal is a subset of Heavy Metal and anything within a subset belongs to the main set/category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len(songs) Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Also, it shows punk as an influence on certain genres of metal and not as an actual subset of the genre. If you actually looked at the connections between different genres you would see that it doesn't show any heavy metal influence on punk, and hence does not call punk "metal". However, it does include Progressive Metal as a descendent of "early metal", and hence as a subset of the heavy metal genre. Edited September 1, 2014 by len(songs) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Just like progressive rock and hard rock are subsets/subcategories of Rock (as is Heavy Metal). If Rush are Progressive Metal then they are part of the larger group of Heavy Metal. That's how it all works. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) The entire chart is "heavy metal" or "metal" which is the same. I'm not using that chart as a definitive guide but to illustrate how subcategories work. If one considers Rush to be progressive metal then they are part of the group "heavy metal". Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) Rush belong to these sets: Rock/Hard Rock Rock/Progressive Rock or would it be Rock/Hard Rock/Progressive Rock? Rock/Heavy Metal (or Metal)/Progressive Metal Now the question is how does Progressive Rock branch into Progressive Metal (more subsets within subsets)? I would like to see some crazy chart that includes every genre/subgenre of Music ever invented and how they all branch/connect. Would look like insanity. Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) We are getting there. Exactly what I have been saying and illustrating. Disagree if you want, but IF you agree that Rush are Progressive Metal than they by default are categorized within Heavy Metal. Progressive Metal definition This category represents the core movement of what is called "Progressive Metal" in the literal sense. It is a subgenre of progressive rock as much as it is a subgenre of heavy metal, and this is how its sound is defined: a blend of heavy, guitar-oriented metal music enriched with compositional innovation and complex arrangements, usually expressed through diverse instrumentation and often (but not always) with odd-time signatures. Common, but not essential to define the movement, are the frequent use of keyboards, high-pitched vocals, concept lyrical themes and tracks of longer duration. Similar to progressive rock, progressive metal draws influences from other genres, such as jazz/fusion, ethnic, classical and symphonic music. http://www.progarchi...re.asp?style=19 Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) So it can be ebstablished that Progressive Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal. So the real question of this thread should be "Does Rush belong to the subgenre 'Progressive Metal?' If that can be answered with a 'Yes' then they are by default part of the "Heavy Metal' genre. I look forward to your next offer of irrelevant evidence (this chart includes punk groups, so it's hard to imagine what the overarching genre is supposed to be -- loud guitar music?). Your MO is to say something idiotic or incoherent and then double down on it when called out. Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCXII Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Rush belong to these sets: Rock/Hard Rock Rock/Progressive Rock or would it be Rock/Hard Rock/Progressive Rock? Rock/Heavy Metal (or Metal)/Progressive Metal Now the question is how does Progressive Rock branch into Progressive Metal (more subsets within subsets)? I would like to see some crazy chart that includes every genre/subgenre of Music ever invented and how they all branch/connect. Would look like insanity. Have you seen Mapofmetal.com? I haven't because I can't view it on my retarded iPhone at the moment :( I think bands like rush would find this thread pretty amusing because like most artists they hate having labels pinned on them. It's hard to even get Geddy to admit that they are/were even a Prog band! That aside (lol) the definition of metal has changed greatly and I say Rush is prog-metal! Why? Mostly because I grew up in the 70's and back then they were! Kids today listen to stuff that's waaaay more metal than Rush. So if today's more extreme metal is still considered metal than that automatically relegates Rush to a lower form like maybe prog rock? Is that even possible? So should we use today's definition of metal or the definition that existed when the music was released (70's)? I guess what I'm saying is that Rush is Prog-metal because I'm 44 years old lol. If you listen to speed thrash doom gloom etc etc then I guess you'd see Rush as just a Prog rock band.. Reminds me of a sticker I have on my vehicle that says 'it's not that I'm old, your music really does suck!' My daughter laughs at it and thinks I'm an old fart. I just think she's too young to understand lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savagegrace26 Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 (edited) error Edited September 1, 2014 by savagegrace26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Empty Mindless Spectre Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Who exactly is the authority defining these categories? Dick Clark? Casey Kasem? Don Kirschner? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMCXII Posted September 1, 2014 Share Posted September 1, 2014 Also is "heavy metal" and "metal" still the same thing? And what's with "capitalized M" metal and "small m" metal? Does metal defy grammar now?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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