Atheist, Agnostic, or Deist?

[drbirdsong]

http://www.errantskeptics.org/Quotes_by_Presidents.htm

 

Looks kids, I can do a google search and find quotes by the founding fathers too. These quotes are religious in nature and are by some of the same fellows listed above. Read them if you want to. I always fail to understand why folks attempt to make the founders of The United States some sort of agnostic, but go ahead if you want to.

 

As for Rush, I think Neil Peart and Geddy Lee probably fall under the modern title, Secular Humanist. I don't recall Alex Lifeson speaking on the subject in any interview I've see or heard.

 

 

[Tommy Sawyer]

QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jun 6 2011, 05:20 PM)

As for Rush, I think Neil Peart and Geddy Lee probably fall under the modern title, Secular Humanist. I don't recall Alex Lifeson speaking on the subject in any interview I've see or heard.

Geddy is Jewish.

[psionic11]

QUOTE (drbirdsong @ Jun 6 2011, 04:20 PM)

http://www.errantskeptics.org/Quotes_by_Presidents.htm Looks kids, I can do a google search and find quotes by the founding fathers too.  These quotes are religious in nature and are by some of the same fellows listed above.  Read them if you want to.  I always fail to understand why folks attempt to make the founders of The United States some sort of agnostic, but go ahead if you want to. As for Rush, I think Neil Peart and Geddy Lee probably fall under the modern title, Secular Humanist.  I don't recall Alex Lifeson speaking on the subject in any interview I've see or heard.

It's true that anyone can make a website, and that one must always be skeptical.

 

I'm especially skeptical of the website you linked. They're claiming the earth is flat , and that evolution is faith not fact, among other things.

 

 

The quotes that I linked also come from a website an individual made, and so one can rightly be skeptical of it. But I also refer to academic textbooks, which have much more veracity and credibility than websites.

 

These are quotes from my American Government textbook from last semester (emphasis added is mine):

 

The Founders were products of the Enlightenment, also called the Age of Reason.... In this era, learned men rejected traditional religious, political, and social notions in favor of rational thought and scientific observation.

 

Deism reflected the spirit of the age. They [Deists] believed that Jesus Christ was a great philosopher but not a divine figure. They rejected most Christian doctrine, including biblical revelations and the existence of Hell, and criticized the Christian church and clergy.

 

After Jefferson, James Madison was the most vocal proponent of separation of church and state. He warned against proclaiming Christianity our national religion, believing that religion was a divisive rather than unifying force. As he got older, Madison apparently became agnostic.

 

Of the six most prominent Founders, only John Adams and Alexander Hamilton could be considered Christian.

 

... the Constitution is a secular document. It doesn't mention "God", "Creator", "Providence", or "divine".

 

Although these prominent Founders were aware of the people's expectations that as leaders seeking or holding office they display the Christian faith in their church affiliation and public statements -- you have probably read quotations illustrating this -- their private beliefs differed significantly.

[circumstantial tree]

Isn't it ironic that the smartest creatures on earth don't use logic or reasoning? They go by instinct and intuition and common sense. Edited June 7, 2011 by circumstantial tree

[psionic11]

At one point, the Deism mentioned in Rush lyrics were positive -- anything can happen from Prime Mover. There is the sense of hope and open wonder, and a can-do attitude. This is also reflected in Mission, Marathon.

 

Freewill and Ghost of a Chance also reject divinity, but stress that individual will can be your positive guide. Neil believes in love.

 

BU2B and Faithless, however, show a more brooding rejection of divinity. BU2B is brimming with deist sarcasm.

 

Atheism isn't necessarily negative or pessimistic. I find it liberatingly defiant, and reassuring via its skepticism and trust in the weight of facts versus the fancy of faith. While it wouldn't be surprising if the boys were atheists, that is a strong position, and can't be fully supported in the lyrics alone.

 

Agnostic, not Deist. BU2B, Totem and Show Don't Tell seem to support this best.

 

"I wasn't walking on water. I was standing on a reef."

 

 

[ioc]

Are we wandering into SoCN territory here?

[circumstantial tree]

QUOTE (ioc @ Jun 6 2011, 11:55 PM)

Are we wandering into SoCN territory here?

No. anybody can stand on a reef. That's no big deal.

[psionic11]

QUOTE (circumstantial tree @ Jun 6 2011, 10:46 PM)

Isn't it ironic that the smartest creatures on earth don't use logic or reasoning? They go by instinct and intuition and common sense.

It takes all kinds, on all sides of the fence.

 

And I would be leary of that phrase "common sense".

 

It no longer interests me so much to get drawn into the anti-evolution debates. I realized one day that they're shouting and quoting and just making noise at the starting gate of the horse race.

 

It seems they didn't notice the race has already run several decades worth of laps while they're denying evolution: --

 

genetically-enhanced crops thanks to selective breeding

generations of types of dogs (who all share a common ancestor with the wolf)

biomedical breakthroughs

DNA and forensics

stem cell research

cladistics (the genetic tree of life)

 

The list goes on. There's much more to the picture than "missing link" fossils.

 

/digress

[circumstantial tree]

I'm glad to see that you're using common sense by not bringing up what you brought up in your last post. It's the Rush portion of the board, not SOCN. Edited June 7, 2011 by circumstantial tree

[drbirdsong]

SoCN territory? I guess we are close because the subject keeps drifting from away from Rush.

 

I remember an interview with Mick Jagger where he mentioned that he went through periods of being more spiritual and then letting it fade again at different points in his life. My guess is that it happens to a large majority of people including members of Rush.

 

Neil Peart has had a tragedy in his life, a very hard one. I have no doubt that it has effected his thinking and I think it shows in his lyrics.

 

Geddy Lee is a cultural Jew. He was born to Jewish parents and yes he did attend a synagog as a child, but he no longer does so. He is not a religious Jew, and if you think so then you haven't read the lyrics from his solo album.

[circumstantial tree]

My opinion is that if you want to discuss religious/political topics, request access to Sense O'Clock News. There's no reason for this topic to be in the Rush section when it could be discussed elsewhere.