Recording Performance Questions

[rushfanNlv]

[rushringleader]

Tell me about it. I nail Tom Sawyer on bass all the time. I try to record and I can't get to the chorus before I start over out of disgust. Its just pressure. I need some more GRACE UNDER PRESSURE!

[Choose/the/light]

100% agree, it kills me, whenever i'm just jammin by myself, i nail everything, but when someone is watching or i'm recording, i choke

[theworkingman]

I do the same thing as the previous posters. Nail it everyone when im just playing alone. Then under pressure I choke. Not every time but a lot.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Do you really play better, or is there no playback to prove you wrong?

 

Seriously though the difference between laying down a good track and f***ing it is completely mental.

 

Multitrack, while a technological advance, is also the great killer of focus. There was a time before overdubs, many of us have not known it personally. The repercussion is that we musicians have lost a fair amount of focus on our follow through. As much as I like to do one complete pass on a given piece I find that to be the rarity and not the norm. Even tracks one might perceive as being "clean" can always be done "better."

 

Now, when I am recording as a sideman playing someone's original composition I find that there is no real complete take to be had. Mostly because in general we are building something that will ultimately become a studio creation. Even something that is natural for me to play can be reconsidered and redone purely for creative freedom. I did some drum tracks that were all complete clean takes recorded onto several playlists in ProTools. The composer was also the mixer and he chose bits from various takes that he liked, that I might not necessarily would have chosen myself. Is that being lazy or creative? Not for me to say. But that's not really on point either.

 

Only experience can solve the "red light-itis." Money makes a difference I have found too. If you are being paid then you are going to focus more. Because my experiences recently are more as hired gun I have gotten into "less is more" mode, which in Gene $immon$ terms translates into "less time = more money" especially if you are getting a flat rate as I generally do.

 

When recording cover tracks for fun I find that I build to the best performance over a few takes, broken or complete. What'll happen is that the first take will start with good energy but will have some slop in it somewhere. The second take will be clean but lack good energy. Third or fourth takes seem to be good for me, they should have good energy and performance (this of course is dependent upon the difficulty of the tune). Anything after take 5 is a crap shoot, but I do find that I get good energy and performance on certain sections and I can composite from those. Like the Yyz tracks I did for that kid in England a little while back. That is essentially a comp of 4 takes. Take 3 was a bed take, meaning it is the bulk of the comp with certain passages from 3 other takes.

 

As long as you are recording and experimenting is all that really matters.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Apr 8 2008, 03:11 AM)

Do you really play better, or is there no playback to prove you wrong?

In my case, that's exactly it. I never recorded myself in the "studio" until a few months ago when I started recording "La Villa." Before that, I thought I had been playing that song really well all these years...then I rolled tape and listened for the first time. I had never heard my playing that direct and isolated before, and it really threw me for a loop. I was like, "THAT'S what I sound like?" Yikes. It was a humbling experience to say the least. There's nothing like having a mic right up against your speaker cab's grill to expose EVERY little mistake you make. It was at that point that I really wondered if I was any good. 30 years of playing, and that's what I sound like? It took a while to get my confidence back up enough to try laying the song down again.

 

While you're actually playing, you know when you make a big mistake, but it's easy to not notice the little flubs (or, not know how bad that "little" flub really sounded), or not notice if your meter is a little off for a sequence or two. But then you hear the playback, and you hear what you just played in stark detail. And if you're me, you say, "Gawd I need more practice!"

 

Every player should record themselves to accurately gauge how they're playing. It's hard to tell how good you're playing WHILE you're playing. Wish I'd thought of that 20 years ago...

 

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Apr 8 2008, 03:11 AM)

Seriously though the difference between laying down a good track and f***ing it is completely mental. Multitrack, while a technological advance, is also the great killer of focus. There was a time before overdubs, many of us have not known it personally. The repercussion is that we musicians have lost a fair amount of focus on our follow through. As much as I like to do one complete pass on a given piece I find that to be the rarity and not the norm. Even tracks one might perceive as being "clean" can always be done "better." ... When recording cover tracks for fun I find that I build to the best performance over a few takes, broken or complete. What'll happen is that the first take will start with good energy but will have some slop in it somewhere. The second take will be clean but lack good energy. Third or fourth takes seem to be good for me, they should have good energy and performance (this of course is dependent upon the difficulty of the tune). Anything after take 5 is a crap shoot, but I do find that I get good energy and performance on certain sections and I can composite from those. Like the Yyz tracks I did for that kid in England a little while back. That is essentially a comp of 4 takes. Take 3 was a bed take, meaning it is the bulk of the comp with certain passages from 3 other takes.

I found myself doing the same thing. Once I got a take that was reasonably good, which took the pressure off because I knew I had something decent to work with, I'd record a few more takes. Then I went back to that first "good" take, and if there was a part I didn't like, chances are one of the subsequent takes had that part right, and I would splice it in. If not...I'd hit the red button again and have another go at it!

[Cowtothesky]

Good advise given above.

 

Another idea is to have your wife 'trick' you on the record button. Play through it 3 or 4 times and have her not announce which take is being recorded. Then you don't have to worry about that pesky record button! Problem solved.

[Drumnut]

QUOTE (Cowtothesky @ Apr 8 2008, 05:56 PM)

Good advise given above. Another idea is to have your wife 'trick' you on the record button. Play through it 3 or 4 times and have her not announce which take is being recorded. Then you don't have to worry about that pesky record button! Problem solved.

Keep the best 'take' and dump the rest.

[Angua]

Record midi then edit out those duff notes! I play fine on my own, but if anyone else walks in the room I freeze like a rabbit in the headlights. Haven't done a live performance for years since I threw up on stage from nerves!

[rushfanNlv]

Some great advice from all, thanks. I appreciate it. I guess I will have to take the approach suggested by Cyg and 1-0-0-1: record a few takes and splice the best parts together.

 

But what CygnusX-1Bk2 said about musicians and focus really got to me. I want to be able to focus when I am recording. I know I can play the parts and I know I can play them with conviction. I want that one take performance because there is a certain feel to it that sets it at a higher level than something that was pieced together. I guess I have a choice to make.

 

[rushfanNlv]

[darrenhigh]

If you're using a digital recorder or sequencer, why not record everything you do, at least when you're performing songs that you potentially would want to save? After awhile you just ignore the fact it's being recorded. If you have a particularly good take, then stop and save that one specifically. When I started using DAW software I had that red light syndrome as well, but when you realize you can always record another take with no real penalty the relative preciousness of any given take starts to fade. At least it did for me.

[Cowtothesky]

[Drumnut]

Remember what some old singer you and I both know always says, "I can be tired, hungry, angry, grumpy, or whatever it is, but when the light comes on, it's always there."

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (Drumnut @ Apr 10 2008, 09:43 PM)

Remember what some old singer you and I both know always says, "I can be tired, hungry, angry, grumpy, or whatever it is, but when the light comes on, it's always there."

That's the difference between us: He's a performer, I'm a player. I love to play but I'm not to in too performing. Don't know why.

 

Well, I finished the song I was trying when I started this thread. I'm not 100% happy with it but I'm still getting the hang of this Fostex machine. It is an awesome machine but the operator isn't to swift.

 

Rushfans Chemistry You'll have to turn off your pop-up blocker or simply click the link in my signature.

Edited April 20, 2008 by rushfanNlv

[BassLik]

my fingers feel like they have super when the record light is on, and i can swear my hands start to sweat ????????

 

[BassLik]

RUSHFANNLV"

THAT CHEMESTRY TUNE IS BADA** BUD, MAN I CAN DIG IT.

http://www.geocities.com/geddybasslik/

dads

[syrinxpriest 2112]

I get that way when recording, but not when performing. Personally, I like for people to listen and see what I have to offer musically. You never know who's listening; they could be your big break.

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (BassLik @ Apr 20 2008, 04:35 PM)

RUSHFANNLV" THAT CHEMESTRY TUNE IS BADA** BUD, MAN I CAN DIG IT. http://www.geocities.com/geddybasslik/ dads

ummm....did that mean you liked it?

 

Thanks.

[Drumnut]

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Apr 20 2008, 06:57 PM)

QUOTE (Drumnut @ Apr 10 2008, 09:43 PM) Remember what some old singer you and I both know always says, "I can be tired, hungry, angry, grumpy, or whatever it is, but when the light comes on, it's always there."  That's the difference between us: He's a performer, I'm a player. I love to play but I'm not to in too performing. Don't know why.   Well, I finished the song I was trying when I started this thread. I'm not 100% happy with it but I'm still getting the hang of this Fostex machine. It is an awesome machine but the operator isn't to swift.   Rushfans Chemistry You'll have to turn off your pop-up blocker or simply click the link in my signature. Sounds great Bro, I think you know someone who can easily fill in the bass track too...

[Lrigyttiw]

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Apr 20 2008, 06:57 PM)

QUOTE (Drumnut @ Apr 10 2008, 09:43 PM) Remember what some old singer you and I both know always says, "I can be tired, hungry, angry, grumpy, or whatever it is, but when the light comes on, it's always there."  That's the difference between us: He's a performer, I'm a player. I love to play but I'm not to in too performing. Don't know why.   Well, I finished the song I was trying when I started this thread. I'm not 100% happy with it but I'm still getting the hang of this Fostex machine. It is an awesome machine but the operator isn't to swift.   Rushfans Chemistry You'll have to turn off your pop-up blocker or simply click the link in my signature. my current debate with people I encounter. I love to write and record, but I just don't get the performing part. I'm missing that gene.   Cygnus, very eloquently put. Back in the days, bands used to record in the same room in one take. I actually blogged about this last weekend on my myspace page. Music creation is sure a lot different now than it was then. Technology: a big help or creative vampire?

Edited July 16, 2008 by Lrigyttiw

[Camera Eye82]

I have been recording for sometime now and when I first started to record , I always messed up. But , then one day I said you can do this. Its just a button. And if I mess up no big deal. That is what the delete button is for. Now , I don't choke at all. I take my time and learn my parts until I feel that I have it down and then I hit the record button. Most times I get it within 2 or 3 takes. But on a good day I can nail it with one take. Just relax and take a deep breath. Its all good. Edited July 21, 2008 by Camera Eye82