What is a MIDI bass?

[H. P. L.]

I am not a musician, I can't play anything, but sometimes I get interested in some techincal questions about Rush.

Reading here and there, I often find interviews about Geddy using MIDI bass in the 80s albums...

So what exactly is a MIDI bass? I picture it as a kind of synth-keyboard... But why use it instead of a bass guitar?

Also, is there some particular Rush song where you can hear this MIDI bass?

 

Just curious, hope nobody gets offended...

[fenderjazz]

I believe he was referring to synth bass, played on a keyboard. Best example I can think of is "Roll the Bones" during the rap section. Essentially he was playing bass on the keyboard, during all of the 80s "synth-oriented" songs. Midi refers to a connectivity protocol that connects synthesizers, similar to a connectivity protocol that connects computers. It was common to use the terms Midi/Synth interchangeably in the late 80s.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Both he and Alex started playing Moog pedal synthesizers in the late 70's called Taurus which were used for "pads" which are long sutained notes and were sometimes called bass pedals. An early example is in A Passage to Bangkok and then Xanadu. In both of these cases Geddy played his double neck Rickenbacker bass and 12 string combo. During the guitar solos Geddy plays rhythm guitar on the 12 string while playing bass notes on the Taurus pedals. The Taurus could also play higher registers and can be heard on many other Rush songs into the 80's. Around the time of Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures midi technology had solidified. The Taurus pedals were modified to recieve and send midi data so that they could trigger other synthesizers. This evolved into them now using stand alone midi pedal keyboards that trigger sampler and synth modules off stage.

[Geds]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ May 26 2006, 12:20 PM)

Both he and Alex started playing Moog pedal synthesizers in the late 70's called Taurus which were used for "pads" which are long sutained notes and were sometimes called bass pedals. An early example is in A Passage to Bangkok and then Xanadu. In both of these cases Geddy played his double neck Rickenbacker bass and 12 string combo. During the guitar solos Geddy plays rhythm guitar on the 12 string while playing bass notes on the Taurus pedals. The Taurus could also play higher registers and can be heard on many other Rush songs into the 80's. Around the time of Permanent Waves and Moving Pictures midi technology had solidified. The Taurus pedals were modified to recieve and send midi data so that they could trigger other synthesizers. This evolved into them now using stand alone midi pedal keyboards that trigger sampler and synth modules off stage.

Great assessment. I wasn't aware of the history of their migration toward midi, but am very deep into midi myself.

 

I use a ton of midi gear onstage, from creating bass, drum and keyboard parts, to running lights and sound.

 

I also use midi to control my guitar effects, changinging sounds and turning on/off individual effects,changing from clean to distorted sounds.....everything. I never step on a single effect pedal all night long...I just step on a "start" pedal that starts the sequncer that holds all that information.

 

MIDI Bass is not the extent of what Rush uses Midi for. Midi is a kind of control language, too.

 

Watch the Show of Fans video. When Playing MISSION, you see Geddy from an overhead view....He is not actually playing the notes on the keyboard for the beginning, and you can hear the keyboard change sounds without his hand moving......he is "triggering" the keyboard sample, which is a midi sequence with the information that "plays" the sound module for him.

 

Midi can do show control, effect control, music...you name it, it can be done.

 

The only things that midi is not god for is emulating the things that are Very analog....Like the human voice. I also am not satisfied with mid's capability to reproduce the sound of a guitar. (however, sampling is a great way around that, and you see many bands do that....When you are wondering where the backing vocals are coming from....many times, it's a sample.)

 

But that doesn't mean it can't do 90 percent of the the other stuff.

GEddy uses MIDI bass to cover the parts he is too busy to play bass during.

 

Neil also trigers the xylophone with midi pads during the rythm method, I believe. (drummers, verify that for me, eh?)

 

But, not being a musician, it is very hard to describe what midi is to you.

 

It would be like explaining Windows XP to Henry Ford.

 

It's not impossible to grasp, but hard to relate to.

There are pictures of my MIDI gear in the pinned section above for guitar players, I believe....

 

 

 

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (H. P. L. @ May 26 2006, 08:46 AM)

I am not a musician, I can't play anything, but sometimes I get interested in some techincal questions about Rush. Reading here and there, I often find interviews about Geddy using MIDI bass in the 80s albums... So what exactly is a MIDI bass? I picture it as a kind of synth-keyboard... But why use it instead of a bass guitar? Also, is there some particular Rush song where you can hear this MIDI bass? Just curious, hope nobody gets offended...

Musical

Instrument

Digital

Interface

 

Allows more than one musical instrument to 'talk' to one another much like two computer with Windows or 2 Mac's can talk.....

 

Geddy had an interview about the whole process in which they needed to access sounds during live performances & keep the integrity of the song. So, in a way, they were kind of helping in inventing the things we know as MIDI.....The Taurus Pedals are a great example....watch them on anything live & watch Geds.....There are times where you'll see him by the mic playing bass but his foot is tapping away on something that looks like a piano on the floor.....Taurus Pedals...great little device for those of Ged's ability!!! Also, MIDI is in everything musician's do....From electronic drums to recording equipment....It has made the musician have the ability to do pretty much anything he/she wants!!!

 

Synth Bass is a bit different...That's kind of along the lines of a keyboard. But you have good sense of what he was talking about.

 

That's my story & I'm sticking to it.....

[rayzray]

everything above is well explained;; but to a non-musician;;can still be overwelming..

 

think if MIDI;; NOT as sound/audio;; but as INFO/information..

 

i does "Trigger" a sound bite,, sample;; digital or analog,, but that's all..

 

it just CONNECTS the slave with the ???? ,, (gee i forgot),, Master??

 

e.i. you play on one keyboard;; and how hard you hit a note,, which note;; if you want vibrato or not;; distortion etc etc will trigger another keyboard or a tone generator that has the tones..

 

i used to perform with up to 5 keyboards all MIDI'd together;; and two or three non-keyboard generators..

 

it makes it easier to perform;; cause you don't have to "Set-up" the sound choices for the next song;; just press a button;; or two;; and it will set up many (maybe up to a hundred) or more;; combinations for you..

 

soo, on one song you will have Bass on one synth for the left hand;; strings on the upper part of the same keyboard;;

then an analog moggish sound on another;; and maybe a gong on another;; and so on..

 

when you get to the next song;; you press a number combination;; and voila;; EVERYTHING can change.. so that is like "Mapping" where the sounds originate..

 

i believe that Neil has MIDI "Triggers" on some of his drums also;; IF you listen to how he strikes a drum and get a big band sound at the same time;; i think.. (that's after his drum solo when it starts following the old big band song)..

 

i believe that the screen in back;; whick you can see the dancers etc;; can be MIDI'd to the drums or vice versa;; it probably is a computer MIDI sepuence that starts somewherezz and stops..

 

the downside of this is;; if the MIDI info cloggs together cause there's too much of it;; it will "STOP" ..!! like just stop.. there used to be a "Panic button" to re-start it;; but i just gave up on TOO MUCH MIDI at one time..

 

if you wanna see MIDI done with you computers TOne Generator sound from it's sound card;; download a free version of (Band-in-a-Box) and even a non-musician can probably figure it out..

 

you can play it's own songs;; or CREATE your own songs using various Chords ;; combinig with what ever sounds and rhythms you choose;; even speed..

 

there is more info to tell you;; but this is long enought for now;; just remember that MIDI is NOT audio;; but just INFO..!! it only triggers somd sort of sound from another source..

 

late edit]]

i saw a MIDI set-up at one of the local repair shoppes for a BIG named band which slips my mind;; maybe tom petty or Joe Cocker:: in which there were TWO road racks about 5 feet tall each FILLED with MIDI gear;; tone generators;; routers/mappers etc etc;; and i believe that not one can the performers chance the MIDI during a songs;; but most bands have a PERSON to do this from the back of the stage;; and of course these rackmount unit stay in back also;; i don't thin all the HOT lights are good for them anywyzz;; lol..!!

Edited June 2, 2006 by rayzray

[Der Trommler]

QUOTE (rayzray @ Jun 2 2006, 01:47 AM)

i believe that Neil has MIDI "Triggers" on some of his drums also;; IF you listen to how he strikes a drum and get a big band sound at the same time;; i think.. (that's after his drum solo when it starts following the old big band song).. i believe that the screen in back;; whick you can see the dancers etc;; can be MIDI'd to the drums or vice versa;; it probably is a computer MIDI sepuence that starts somewherezz and stops..

Yes, I might explained it a bit off.....Much like computers 'talk' (information)

MIDI is the same.....

 

As for The Professor.....yes...his entire setup is controlled via MIDI. If you ever go to a concert, you will a few computers on stage right (usually) & they control most of the things that need to be controlled (lights etc...)

But I also believe that they send the INformation to the Controllers (IE: TD20s-the drum brain) to 'make this sound when it is struck'

(layman's terms to make things easy)..If you notice, during one song, Neil will hit an electronic pad & it will make a certain sound & then he plays another song....hits it again & Viola a new sound....

[rayzray]

and,

ironically:

last night i was restless and went on the couch in the living room to sleep;; and VOILA!! i put a MIDI floppy disc into my wife's 88 key Yamaha Keyboard and it played classical music for hours..

 

because it is NOT sound;; i can actually program it to play ANY piano sound;; or,, an instrument (e.i. vibes;; organ;; strings) instead.. even make it play faster of slower.. (i can make it do the minute watlq in 20 seconds);; lol..

 

and yes;; even after Neil hits the controller;; he reaches down a lot to "set" something;; or,, probably reaches down at a controller and them tests which sound MIDI Program) is on..

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Lorne Wheaton is in charge of changing Neil's patches during the course of a show. When he toured with Neil's kit on the SS Professor clinic last year he talked about what his responsibilities on the raod are and he mentioned that. He controls everything from behind Geddy's dryers.

 

The lighting and video is done from the middle of the house next to the mixing console. There is an interesting article about it on the Derivative website, the company that did the visuals for the last 2 tours. The graphics are also performed live using a midi keyboard controller. At one of the shows I had seats near the mixer and watched the light and visual guy. What a cool job, he was just rocking out!

 

The Derivative Touch Player is a free download from their website and you can even download the graphics for Natural Science.

Edited June 2, 2006 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[rayzray]

good read::

 

i am watching Neil's drum solo now;; and at the end one the Johnny Carson theme song part;; i am trying to see if the "Orchestra Stabs" are all the same tones/chords on the same drums;; and he also has a stab on his front cymbal..

 

do you think he is drumming and following an audio track;; or is he actually triggering these stabs with his sticks on certain drums..

 

the cymbol throws me off;; i am not sure any more;; can a cymbal have a MIDI Trigger??

 

(the reason i am not sure which concert solo i am watching is that me and a T-Board member made a DVD project and mixed R-30 and Rio songs onto one DVD with A/V EFX.. i didn't title which drum solo was which on my DVD..)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Watch closely. The individual horn stabs are triggered by Neil using the Shark pedal (left of his hi-hat), the Dauz pad (next to his snare) and the Roland V-Drum pads just above his floor toms. The Five O'Clock Jump orchestral sample is triggered by the V-Drum pad next to the suspended floor tom. Each has it's own pitch.

 

This is very evident when watching Anatomy of a Drum Solo.

Edited June 2, 2006 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Oh and you can tell the R30 solo from the RIR solo by the drum kit. R30 has the black kit with rainbow tape logos and RIR is the old red sparkle kit.

[Der Trommler]

Haven't seen Anatomy of a Drum Solo (REALLY WANT TO GET THAT!!!)

 

Yeah....good question raised now....Does he go back to the Red Sparkle or go with R30, or get a whole new kit all together?

 

He declined DW on making a new one prior to VT but got the great one on R30 (which they used new technology on that kit first!!)

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Edited June 3, 2006 by CygnusX-1Bk2

[Der Trommler]

Oh, I know & I love the kit too but DW likes to offer another kit for each new album. It's kind of their way to upgrading the musician. Another reason I love DW.....