Headphone Upgrade suggestions (Personal Use)

[stoopid]

My needs have changed as I exit recording and enter the 'listening' leg of my musical journey. 8 years ago I tried a bunch of headphones, some still available, with the intent of finding a compromise between something I could daily drive for casual music listening and tracking, and something more detailed for getting mixes most of the way there/fine tuning (before moving to the studio monitors for the final tweaks). I'm parting ways with my Sennheiser HD600 open back headphones, used only for that detailed mixing stage. I still have the same Audio-Technica ATH-M50 from many years ago, and these have been very good overall headphones. I like the solid bass delivery and of course the relatively bargain-level price. But they're weaker in the mid and high frequency response, which I'm looking to improve with the purchase of a new set of primary headphones for 99% personal use.

 

I realize selecting headphones is a very personal process, but finding someplace local with a good selection even in Las Vegas isn't going to suffice. So I'm going to turn to TRF and other online sources for suggestions and reviews, then make a pick from there. Worse case I'll possibly have to return something as I plow through a short list of contenders. But hoping my due diligence can help me avoid that.

 

Today being the start of the process I have a blank slate of contenders. I'd prefer closed back, there's times later at night I like to jam out a bit and play things loud, and open back might allow for too much bleed. I'm not opposed to in ear solutions (IEM, earbuds). I have a mid tier pair of BT earbuds that are fairly good, impressive really for what they pack into such a small design, and that's certainly a possibility. But I don't find earbuds as comfortable and certainly not over an hour or two straight wearing them. I'm not opposed to a wired set of earbuds, and they might be the better long term solution because they don't have batteries that will eventually die (planned obsolescence anyone?).

 

My primary requirements "put into words"...

• Under $500, preferably $300-ish but willing to splurge for something I may use for the rest of my days
• Good bass response is a must, improved mid-upper end response over the ATH-M50s is where I'm focusing the most
• Closed back (for when I like to crank 'em), and these usually provide tighter bass response
• Comfort - some smaller ear cup designs are not comfortable. I'm also not a fan of leather/plether for long listening sessions. Earbuds tend to fatigue after an hour.

 

I have a headphone amp, so just about anything on the market I could sufficiently power.

Edited December 22, 2023 by stoopid

[treeduck]

I don't use headphones much myself, I don't like using them after a few minutes, but here's my choice for you: Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro Studio Headphones - Over-Ear, Closed-Back, Professional Design for Recording and Monitoring (80 Ohm, Grey)

 

 

[treeduck]

I think they're about $160 dollars over there, £200 over here.

[treeduck]

What HiFi equipment do you have btw?

[BastillePark]

Of the ones you have listed I've had 3 of them. The HD 600, the DT 770, and the M50 and with what your parameters are I'd probably go with the DT 770s. I know the AKG K371 gets good reviews as do the Focal Elegia but they're closer to your price ceiling. Depending on much you're willing to stretch the budget, I really liked the Audeze

LCD-2s but they're getting closer to double your listed price goal but were sublime to my ears.

 

Whatever you get, try to buy from somewhere that has a good return/refund policy. and keep us abreast of what you get. Happy shopping.

[stoopid]

The DT 770 Pros were part of my initial hunt and previews 8 years ago.  IMO it's a bit sad things haven't changed much in that time, on the other hand we might have reached peak-headphones and the reinventing of the wheel might be limited to in ear/earbud solutions, and noise cancelling tech.

 

I'm playing digital from my computer (3.5mm line out, Realtek chip/cheap) through a Presonus headphone amp.  Nothing elaborate, anymore. It's fine for my new needs.

[stoopid]

I rather liked the DT 770 Pros and they're priced right.  That's the kind of confirmation I wasn't necessarily expecting, but welcoming if this ends up saving me a bunch of time searching.

[BastillePark]

52 minutes ago, stoopid said:

The DT 770 Pros were part of my initial hunt and previews 8 years ago.  IMO it's a bit sad things haven't changed much in that time, on the other hand we might have reached peak-headphones and the reinventing of the wheel might be limited to in ear/earbud solutions, and noise cancelling tech.

 

I'm playing digital from my computer (3.5mm line out, Realtek chip/cheap) through a Presonus headphone amp.  Nothing elaborate, anymore. It's fine for my new needs.

Planar magnetic drivers are the current state of the art but most of them are quite expensive up to ridiculously so, depending on one's budget, but the one's I've heard are very good.

[stoopid]

11 hours ago, BastillePark said:

Planar magnetic drivers are the current state of the art but most of them are quite expensive up to ridiculously so, depending on one's budget, but the one's I've heard are very good.

Not being familiar with them tells me they're out of budget, out of mind.  lol

[stoopid]

16 hours ago, BastillePark said:

Of the ones you have listed I've had 3 of them. The HD 600, the DT 770, and the M50 and with what your parameters are I'd probably go with the DT 770s. I know the AKG K371 gets good reviews as do the Focal Elegia but they're closer to your price ceiling. Depending on much you're willing to stretch the budget, I really liked the Audeze

LCD-2s but they're getting closer to double your listed price goal but were sublime to my ears.

 

Whatever you get, try to buy from somewhere that has a good return/refund policy. and keep us abreast of what you get. Happy shopping.

The LCD-2s I'm familiar with, at least I recall seeing a youtube review a while back and of course they're likely exactly what I'm looking for but $1000 is a lot of money to me right now, so not gonna happen.  :-/

 

I came across the Focal Elegia last night in separate searches, that exact model has been discontinued.  There's still new pairs that popup occasionally for $350-ish.  I'm almost tempted at that price to give them a shot, but without any return options I may end up 'stuck' trying to resell them if not the right fit.  The Celeste might work but now we're at the $1000 mark, even on eBay they're $650+.

[BastillePark]

12 minutes ago, stoopid said:

Not being familiar with them tells me they're out of budget, out of mind.  lol

There are some that would fit your budget but none of them are closed back afaik.

[BastillePark]

3 minutes ago, stoopid said:

The LCD-2s I'm familiar with, at least I recall seeing a youtube review a while back and of course they're likely exactly what I'm looking for but $1000 is a lot of money to me right now, so not gonna happen.  :-/

 

I came across the Focal Elegia last night in separate searches, that exact model has been discontinued.  There's still new pairs that popup occasionally for $350-ish.  I'm almost tempted at that price to give them a shot, but without any return options I may end up 'stuck' trying to resell them if not the right fit.  The Celeste might work but now we're at the $1000 mark, even on eBay they're $650+.

You can check the classifieds at Head-fi.org to get a feel for prices but you have to have a posting history there to buy or sell. 

[stoopid]

1 minute ago, BastillePark said:

You can check the classifieds at Head-fi.org to get a feel for prices but you have to have a posting history there to buy or sell. 

Ooh, I forgot about Reverb as well which I started using to sell stuff recently. 

[stoopid]

34 minutes ago, stoopid said:

I came across the Focal Elegia last night in separate searches, that exact model has been discontinued.  There's still new pairs that popup occasionally for $350-ish.  I'm almost tempted at that price to give them a shot, but without any return options I may end up 'stuck' trying to resell them if not the right fit.  The Celeste might work but now we're at the $1000 mark, even on eBay they're $650+.

Digging deeper, there's consistent pushback by listeners regarding the upper-mid response with the Elegia.  Not worth the gamble.  This reviews summarizes the issues, but these were expressed on multiple sites:  https://homestudiobasics.com/focal-elegia-review/

Edited December 23, 2023 by stoopid

[BastillePark]

59 minutes ago, stoopid said:

Digging deeper, there's consistent pushback by listeners regarding the upper-mid response with the Elegia.  Not worth the gamble.  This reviews summarizes the issues, but these were expressed on multiple sites:  https://homestudiobasics.com/focal-elegia-review/

Since we all have differently shaped ears and hear things differently I've found that I don't rely too much on reviews unless there is some consistency about them which seems to be the case with the Elegias. That being said any headphone can be made to sound better or worse with an equalizer. Of course that's more cost but there are plenty on the used market and a company named Schiit sells a couple that are reported to be good but don't break the bank since they sell direct to the consumer. 

[stoopid]

48 minutes ago, BastillePark said:

Since we all have differently shaped ears and hear things differently I've found that I don't rely too much on reviews unless there is some consistency about them which seems to be the case with the Elegias. That being said any headphone can be made to sound better or worse with an equalizer. Of course that's more cost but there are plenty on the used market and a company named Schiit sells a couple that are reported to be good but don't break the bank since they sell direct to the consumer. 

I'm pretty sure I can get by without having to EQ anything, while I have my 'needs' I'm fairly flexible with the end results and haven't needed to EQ any music playback (on the computer, phone/portable, or home theater) in probably 20 years.  Picking the right speakers or headphones takes time, but that's how I end up accomplishing this.

 

I put in an offer (and have a second seller lined up if the first falls through) for a pair of B-stock Audeze LCD-2 closed back. Everything online leans heavily toward these being the perfect fit for me.  If I can get them for $600-ish I'll bite, can always be resold since there's a market for them.  Wish me luck, and a huge thanks for pointing me in this direction.  If anything, it's made me realize anything under $1000 list is generally going to have compromises and not improve my situation enough to justify the expense.  Now to see what deals are out there lightly used/refurb.

[grep]

I really like these:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ENMK1DW/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1

[BastillePark]

This thread reminds me of the first "nice" headphones I ever bought many moons ago. I don't recall the model but they were Sennheisers and cost a whopping $73 which at the time was a major decision for me. Not only were they far and away more than I'd ever spent on headphones, but the price was hard to justify in my mind. Not because we were going to not be able to pay a bill or something, just that I couldn't imagine paying that much for headphones. My primary pair now would make some people question my sanity but they sound exquisite to me and I could afford them. 

[stoopid]

The ATH-M50s are excellent headphones for $150, there's a lot of good options in that price range.  And depending on needs and preferences, there's arguably nice stuff in the $100 range too like the Sennheiser HD280 which were my prior headphones of choice for doing rough mixing.  But yeah, something nice is ... nice to have and I can definitely see appreciating a boutique pair more now than at any other point in my life.  I've also learned that I only live once, so for the things that matter to me there's no half assing it anymore.

[grep]

21 hours ago, BastillePark said:

This thread reminds me of the first "nice" headphones I ever bought many moons ago. I don't recall the model but they were Sennheisers and cost a whopping $73 which at the time was a major decision for me. Not only were they far and away more than I'd ever spent on headphones, but the price was hard to justify in my mind. Not because we were going to not be able to pay a bill or something, just that I couldn't imagine paying that much for headphones. My primary pair now would make some people question my sanity but they sound exquisite to me and I could afford them. 

Back when I was commuting to work on mass transit I had a set of Sennehiser noise cancelling headphones for the iPod.  Best portable set I've ever owned.

[stoopid]

3 hours ago, grep said:

Back when I was commuting to work on mass transit I had a set of Sennehiser noise cancelling headphones for the iPod.  Best portable set I've ever owned.

Sony makes a nice closed back BT headphone, but they're only average in sound quality.  Honestly, there's a lot of earbuds (including the cheapish Earfun buds I bought on Amazon) with noise cancelling and a charging case that I would go with that and skip over the ear headphones for commuting purposes altogether.

[BastillePark]

40 minutes ago, stoopid said:

Sony makes a nice closed back BT headphone, but they're only average in sound quality.  Honestly, there's a lot of earbuds (including the cheapish Earfun buds I bought on Amazon) with noise cancelling and a charging case that I would go with that and skip over the ear headphones for commuting purposes altogether.

I have a pair of Sony WF-1000XM5 ear buds and they do good at noise cancelling but sound great when playing music. Lots of options for different tips too.

 

[stoopid]

4 hours ago, BastillePark said:

I have a pair of Sony WF-1000XM5 ear buds and they do good at noise cancelling but sound great when playing music. Lots of options for different tips too.

 

Most earbuds nowadays seem to be outperforming over the ear headphones for portable use.  But none(?) have mastered the wide soundstage of open back headphones, at least not dollar for dollar.  Yet.

 

I'm personally not a fan of how earbuds feel after a bit of time, I'll take the trade off for the heavier/bulkier headphones.

 

The bright spot to all of this discussion is that there's the best portable and at home/studio options available in the history of audio, and the cheaper stuff is really really good too.

Edited December 26, 2023 by stoopid

[stoopid]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:42 PM, stoopid said:

I'm pretty sure I can get by without having to EQ anything, while I have my 'needs' I'm fairly flexible with the end results and haven't needed to EQ any music playback (on the computer, phone/portable, or home theater) in probably 20 years.  Picking the right speakers or headphones takes time, but that's how I end up accomplishing this.

 

I put in an offer (and have a second seller lined up if the first falls through) for a pair of B-stock Audeze LCD-2 closed back. Everything online leans heavily toward these being the perfect fit for me.  If I can get them for $600-ish I'll bite, can always be resold since there's a market for them.  Wish me luck, and a huge thanks for pointing me in this direction.  If anything, it's made me realize anything under $1000 list is generally going to have compromises and not improve my situation enough to justify the expense.  Now to see what deals are out there lightly used/refurb.

 

While searching for the LCD-2s on eBay, a clone by Monoprice came up.  Reviews were positive so without traction on an affordable pair of LCD-2s I decided to bite.

 

We have a winner!!

 

Monoprice's Monolith M1070C are excellent headphones.  

 

Solid (but not boomy) bass response, good detail without sounding thin, papery, or harsh.  Accurate mid range response.  These might be the perfect fit for exactly what I was looking.  Headphones feel durable, even premium, and came with a nice hardshell case and quality cable.  They are not feeling in anyway cumbersome after 20+ minutes.  But they are big and 'bulky'.  The leatherette ear cushions are surprisingly comfy.  I was using aftermarket Velour cushions with my ATH-M50s, and found them superior to the stock leather-like cushions.  I'll try the velour cushions with these new headphones but they look thinner and I read in a couple reviews that they change the sound profile due to decreasing the distance from driver to ear.

 

Insight into testing with my "first songs on the cans" playlist, just in case anyone's curious how an oldish rocker like me sorts this out in (only?) three tracks...

 

1) Gojira "New Found" Been playing a ton of this album, and more metal than usual lately.  The headphones sounded good but the mix is 'modern' and other than a wider soundstage, I didn't think the improvement was night/day.  Very solid but no 'wow'.

2) Rush "Freewill" [HD Tracks 24/96 mix] Immediately recognized the headphones were superior.  Guitars, vocals, drums all spread out across the stereo field with a level of precision I have not heard in quite some time.  One of the things I was looking for in the new headphones were "revelatory" moments where they invigorate and elevate the enjoyment of the music.  The bass tone during the guitar solo is out of this world on these headphones.

3) Steely Dan "Hey Nineteen" [from the Citizen Dan boxed set] Gaucho isn't my favorite album but this might be my favorite SD track.  Exceptional detail, I have a copy of the 5.1 DVD Audio of this album and have heard this one some good systems including my studio monitors, and these headphones are a comparable experience.  Crisp crisp crisp without being at all fatiguing.

 

Unbelievable really for $227 shipped.

 

Thanks to everyone [especially Bastille Day!!] who replied and made suggestions.  Every recommendation was looked into, some sent me down long rabbit holes, some helped nudge me on the path that landed me stumbling onto these headphones.  I was ready to spend $600+ for a used pair of LCD-2 closed backs, and that would seemingly be silly at this point with the 'knocks off' knocking it out of the park.

 

The ATH-M50s are really solid everyday and tracking headphones, but I see them in the dust bin from lack of use.