Hall of Fame Incomplete Without Rose

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 07:01 PM)

QUOTE (anagramking @ Nov 29 2005, 03:46 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 06:39 PM) QUOTE (anagramking @ Nov 29 2005, 03:32 PM) No, you have to show honest remorse for your actions to be forgiven. I guess I never saw the forgiveness rulebook that specifies that. So you think his stats are all that are needed for forgiveness? I don't even really know why forgiveness needs to enter into it. To me his actions are separate from his statistics, and the statistics are for me what should be used to determine someone's HOF inclusion or not, plain and simple. Ty Cobb was a major league asshole (pun intended), but I guess his crimes were more appropriate somehow? Anyway, he's easily in. Can you imagine the HOF without Ty Cobb? Wouldn't it seem to be missing something vastly important without him in? That's how I see it with Rose - not to say he was the player Cobb was for a second, but the point still stands.   For what it's worth, while I appreciate the passion of the arguments on both sides, I'm getting close to being finished with responding on this, if for no other reason than it's getting a little too close to a politics-like situation for me. Not that this issue has anything to do with politics, but politics, like this, usually comes down to a "we each have our own divergent views and no manner of jumping up and down will convince the other side to change their views." As much as I can't be convinced that he belongs out, people who disagree can't be convinced he belongs in. Going on about it much longer seems a waste of energy. No offense to anyone intended...   Peace, Gary (Goober) Goobs... it's NOT politics. It's MORE important. There is already nothing we can do by arguing about politics. The arguments about something as important as this can possibly save the sanctity of baseball and sports in general. Same with Football right now. What happens in the next few weeks with the TO situation can change the game forever. Well.. the sanctity of the game anyway. I hate to think that games are fixed or that the mob has their hand in any of it. It takes the PURITY of sport and corrupts it to no end. Not trying to insult you at all, but do you understand that part of it? Hell with how good he is/was. He screwed with the sanctity of what should be the purest form of human competition and entertainment... SPORT. Bailing on arguments/discsussions like this should only be done if it got nasty or something. Though possibly heated, i don't think it's gotten nasty and I doubt it would. My best friend, who i work right next to is a Rose supporter and this debate comes up at least two... three times a year. We get pretty hot about it, but we always wind up smiling. While I think it's a serious issue to debate, it's not a serious enough issue to fight over. I know you are convinced of your stance as I am convinced on my stance... but deep down you know as well as I do that you hope something in your words gets through to those of us who are anti-Rose. As I hope the same when I make my arguments against. Though I truley don't understand even WHY i have to make those arguments... the fact that he spit in the face of the sanctity of his sport should be enough, but since it's not, i love to keep trying. Don't take your ball and go home Goobs. It's not a fight, it's just intellectual debate.

[Necromancer]

QUOTE (troutman @ Nov 29 2005, 06:56 PM)

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 06:40 PM) QUOTE (troutman @ Nov 29 2005, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 06:20 PM) When I think why he's not in and why he will almost definitely never be allowed in and I'm honest with myself, it's because people aren't willing to forgive.  He's suffered enough.  Baseball has suffered enough.  It's way past due.  Let him in. I came to this by having an imaginary conversation with my future son.  It went something like this. Me: The baseball HOF is for people who achieved outstanding accomplishments over the course of a career. Son: How come the person who beat Ty Cobb's hitting record isn't in? Me: Because he made some mistakes and people aren't willing to forgive him. So let me get this straight. If your kid makes the high school baseball team gets an "A" in math but it was revealed he cheated on his math scores so that he would make the team should he be allowed to play anyway I don't know how to relate those two scenarios - they're too different. How is that? cheating is cheating regardless of what the circumstances are. I have to agree. And it shouldn't matter what the statistics are or who you are either. That would just add to the total badness of the whole thing. Example closer to my home. My son... lost a year of eligibility of playing football for taking an OVER THE COUNTER supplement available at GNC, where he bought it. An entire year of his college career is gone and he can't get it back because of a stupid rule by the NCAA to ban ANY substance that spikes testosterone levels. The sick thing is that if my son took actual STEROIDS, there is a drink he could have bought (also at GNC) that would have covered the steroid usage, but for some reason it doesn't work well with this pro-hormone 1AD (which has been reclassified and is not available on the market legally, but at the time of this occurance it was legal and available). Now you can't tell me that thousands of kids across the US aren't taking the juice on the collegiate football fields, but my son took a legal supplement and lost a year of eligibility. Why didn't we fight it, or at least bitch about it to the NCAA? Cause it's in their list of banned substances. IT'S IN THE FRIGGIN' RULES. Ken knew it and thought he would NEVER get randomly tested. But he did. Yeah... minor infraction.... stupid rule. But a rule is a rule and if you break it, you get burned if you get caught. Rose knew the rules and he said point blank.... "I DON'T CARE". The sanctity of baseball and it's rules didn't matter because he thought he was ABOVE THE GAME. He thought if he got caught, big deal. They'll never spank me... I'm PETE ROSE. BEST HITTER OF ALL TIME. Well... he's the best hitter of a game that doesn't recognize him. I hope it stays that way.

[troutman]

QUOTE (Necromancer @ Nov 30 2005, 06:31 PM)

QUOTE (troutman @ Nov 29 2005, 06:56 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 06:40 PM) QUOTE (troutman @ Nov 29 2005, 03:33 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Nov 29 2005, 06:20 PM) When I think why he's not in and why he will almost definitely never be allowed in and I'm honest with myself, it's because people aren't willing to forgive.  He's suffered enough.  Baseball has suffered enough.  It's way past due.  Let him in. I came to this by having an imaginary conversation with my future son.  It went something like this. Me: The baseball HOF is for people who achieved outstanding accomplishments over the course of a career. Son: How come the person who beat Ty Cobb's hitting record isn't in? Me: Because he made some mistakes and people aren't willing to forgive him. So let me get this straight. If your kid makes the high school baseball team gets an "A" in math but it was revealed he cheated on his math scores so that he would make the team should he be allowed to play anyway I don't know how to relate those two scenarios - they're too different. How is that? cheating is cheating regardless of what the circumstances are. I have to agree. And it shouldn't matter what the statistics are or who you are either. That would just add to the total badness of the whole thing. Example closer to my home. My son... lost a year of eligibility of playing football for taking an OVER THE COUNTER supplement available at GNC, where he bought it. An entire year of his college career is gone and he can't get it back because of a stupid rule by the NCAA to ban ANY substance that spikes testosterone levels. The sick thing is that if my son took actual STEROIDS, there is a drink he could have bought (also at GNC) that would have covered the steroid usage, but for some reason it doesn't work well with this pro-hormone 1AD (which has been reclassified and is not available on the market legally, but at the time of this occurance it was legal and available). Now you can't tell me that thousands of kids across the US aren't taking the juice on the collegiate football fields, but my son took a legal supplement and lost a year of eligibility. Why didn't we fight it, or at least bitch about it to the NCAA? Cause it's in their list of banned substances. IT'S IN THE FRIGGIN' RULES. Ken knew it and thought he would NEVER get randomly tested. But he did. Yeah... minor infraction.... stupid rule. But a rule is a rule and if you break it, you get burned if you get caught. Rose knew the rules and he said point blank.... "I DON'T CARE". The sanctity of baseball and it's rules didn't matter because he thought he was ABOVE THE GAME. He thought if he got caught, big deal. They'll never spank me... I'm PETE ROSE. BEST HITTER OF ALL TIME. Well... he's the best hitter of a game that doesn't recognize him. I hope it stays that way.

[anagramking]

Interesting article about Rose's auctioned bat, possibly corked.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2263783

[Drumnut]

QUOTE (anagramking @ Dec 18 2005, 08:04 PM)

Interesting article about Rose's auctioned bat, possibly corked. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2263783

QUOTE

The bat was purchased for $103,631 by online gambling site GoldenPalace.com

[anagramking]

QUOTE (Drumnut @ Dec 18 2005, 11:08 PM)

QUOTE (anagramking @ Dec 18 2005, 08:04 PM) Interesting article about Rose's auctioned bat, possibly corked. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2263783 QUOTE The bat was purchased for $103,631 by online gambling site GoldenPalace.com Golden Palace likes to be in the middle of all the activity, don't they? Who can forget the woman that streaked at the U.S. Open with Golden Palace painted on her naked body?