Todem

Agreed.

I agree about the vocal phrasing (Caravan more in particular). It is very hard to do when someone else is writing the words...and then you write the music after. Geddy has been really good at making it work...but yes...sometimes it does sound awkward and is not always so smooth. Presto is a perfect example of a lot of songs with too much to say and trying to pack it in....that record has a lot of those moments IMO. But...it really does not take away from the song to make it fall flat...not even close.

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 1 2010, 10:19 AM) Ok, I listened with fresh ears this morning, even though I still haven't been able to listen to a higher quality version yet (coming soon). While I enjoy both of the songs, I guess my honest assessment is that the songs are still in the vein of their 1993-2010 period. I guess it would be ridiculous to assume they'd be really old school. The new Rush is often a much heavier, more metal like Rush than in days gone by. With these two songs, they're MUCH heavier than say anything they did in the 80's. After the initial glow of hearing a new Rush song, I was hearing a lot of T4E and VT echoes that weren't completely thrilling me. Hopefully the album will contain some more mellow songs to balance it out a bit like a Nobody's Hero or Resist or The Larger Bowl (not like I love all those songs, but you get the point). I don't mind heavy outright. I loved a lot of Counterparts, the first three songs especially, and I loved a lot of Snakes & Arrows, the first three songs especially, and those all had tons of heaviness - if not always tons of speed. I guess what I'm missing is a certain clarity, expansiveness and a simplicity. I'm sure some of the clarity will be cleared up when I hear it in a CD version, but often Rush in recent decades make songs that are heavy and dense musically and lyrically without having a lot of room to breathe. As much as I love musical complexity and radical time changes, sometimes simpler is better in terms of conveying melody and making a song more universally accessible. These are songs, for example, I would never play for a new prospective Rush fan unless they were hardcore into metal or more modern prog metal, as I think it would be a bit much for the neophyte otherwise. I'd rather ease them in with something more melodic and less in your face. While I still miss the keyboards of old, I do appreciate that there are some keyboards noticeably present, more than I expected, adding a tad more than merely flourish. The opening to Caravan is really pretty cool - it reminded me of the intro to Gene Simmon's Radioactive - they sound nothing alike, but the same spirit of an unusual more orchestral sounding intro that has nothing to do with the song. That was almost as goosebump inducing to hear as the first time I heard the start of Force Ten or the ending coda of The Big Money, though not quite up to those standards. A major positive is the absence of the Geddy choir (thank God!), but I'm still missing guitar solos. Yes, Caravan has one, but it's hardly the Alex of old in terms of memorable soaring melodies. He can riff like a guitar God, but I do miss the expansive soloing of olde. Lyrically I think the songs are good, though BU2B is a bit of a downer. I guess it's got a similar lyrical vibe to Armor and Sword, but that was a pretty majestic song. Lyrics like "no one gets to their heaven without a fight," which can appeal to people of vastly different faiths or those without one due to its openness to interpretation, don't come along every day. So I guess so far (and my opinion might change), the songs are about as much as I could expect - truly great given the time period they're in, but they hardly transcend that. If I'm being honest, if I stacked these up against anything on Moving Pictures or Permanent Waves, or in particular heavier older songs like Overture, A Farewell To Kings or Circumstances, they would be vastly inferior. The intense heaviness of recent albums is getting a bit much for me. While in one respect I can really rock out with these songs and a lot of their more recent works, I do long for a bit more subtlety and melodicism as opposed to such a sonic attack. That's just personal preference. I don't think you have to be unrelentingly heavy to convey intensity. After 4 listens, I can't see loving these songs as much as my fave songs on S&A - namely Far Cry, Armor & Sword and Workin' Them Angels - those songs blew my mind and grabbed me immediately. I don't see these in quite that same category, but they could grow on me more - maybe a lot more. One big advantage of hearing an entire album is listening to songs in context, and here I'm missing some context and the flow of the song order that could only add to the experience. All that said, these are still great songs, at minimum a solid 7 out of 10, and my feelings on them could change a lot upon subsequent listens... Great post. I agree with some of your thoughts. I will never expect to hear the Rush of my youth (81-87 to be exact) that was the peroid where they could do no wrong in my ears...then came Presto and I thought that was a big speed bump. RTB was a decent recovery but Counterparts brought back what I loved most about Rush...power, energy and the guitar, bass and drums as the focus. I think the 2 new songs have the energy that Counterparts lacked (great album...but I can feel the tension between Alex and Geddy and their struggle of what direction to go in). I also hear a lot of what they started on Snakes and Arrows but with more energy. I loved Snakes and Arrows and I also agree about the first 3 tracks (Far Cry, A&S, WTA) blowing me out of the water. I put these 2 tracks on par with Armor and Sword which is one of my favorite Rush tunes in the last 20 years. As far as the heavy approach...I love it. Yes it is thick...but jeez it sounds so current and they could teach a ton of young bands...how it is done. The day's of more open space where Alex just doubles his tracks are long gone. The open space of the 80's is something that has been in the rearview mirror for quite some time. They are a heavier band now. Alex and the band for that matter are into the wall of guitars for a big powerful thumping sound. As far as Alex's solo's...I will reserve judgment till I hear the entire record. He came up with some beautiful classic solo's last time out (Faithless, TWTWB, TMMB, A&S, Bravest Face) all of those tunes had some signature Alex written all over them. The solo's on these 2 tracks....not the best but they work in the context of the songs. But the playing.....oh my the playing is the key and the thing that has me more excited than anything else. They sound like they are just flat out back into jamming, time sig changes....the elements that have been missing for a while that harkens you back to their golden age.

QUOTE (Fridge @ Jun 1 2010, 07:42 AM) Oh dear..... After a good few listens, I am still very impressed musically with Caravan in particular, but I have to confess Geddys vocal delivery is beginning to irritate me...This should really have been addressed more here, as they've made a really good stab at fixing all the other issues that have plagued their compositions. I can't believe that he doesn't notice this, so am forced to conclude that he is just unable to sing in a different key/phrasing....pity, as it is the only thing stopping this being pretty good. I also listened to them back to back with Freewill and natural Science and I'm afraid they don't really come close to that level when you hear them in context. Still, good effort and encouraging. I agree about comparing them to NAtural Science and Freewill...no comparison on the whole. Nothing will ever top their output from 78-82....nothing. However...I have not heard them jam in a song like Caravan since Freewill. Very good stuff. So I listened with fresh ears....in my car taking my son to school. Still love the tunes...I give the edge to Caravan. But both are fantastic efforts and the potential for a better record than Snakes is on the table. A tough feat indeed but they can do it. We are going to get a much harder and faster album if this is any indication. I was in the camp and still am in the camp that Snakes and Arrows was their best album since Power Windows/Hold Your Fire. So they have had a rebirth here people. I loved Counterparts....and this definitely harkens back to that vibe....but with a ton more power and energy.

The keyboard starting at 2:15 in Caravan...down stepping.....chills...amazing Rush moment...words can't do that part justice.

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 31 2010, 11:16 PM) A few here were commenting on the vocal melodies in "Caravan," saying they weren't catchy or whatever. That might be true for much of the song, but that "I can't stop thinking big" section is gorgeously melodic and it complements the heaviness of the rest of the song very nicely. After people listen to them a dozen more times...that tune will change too. WOW!!!!!

The signature Rush interplay is back. Classic Rush all over both tracks.....yet as always they always sound current.....that is their brilliance and why they have endured and are relevent....and why finally after 35 years the mainstream has caught on to the religion that is Rush.

Brilliance

I will take whatever I can get.

In order: Marathon Middletown Dreams Manhatten Project

The Necromancer...the jewel of this album minus the corny narrative. Some of their very best organic jams on that diddy.

QUOTE (KaoKun1990 @ May 29 2010, 07:09 PM) Prime Mover. We all know Geddy doesn't like to be stuck behind his keys, and it's one of the few songs from that era where he's not behind them at all. Anybody else remember seeing Prime Mover on A Show of Hands? Yeah I remember Prime Mover live....meh. Great studio song but I thought it was flat live...real flat. Turn the Page cooked live...but he was stuck behind the keys....but what a challenging superb jam that tune is. Of all the HYF tunes played live 3 really stood out: Force 10 Mission Turn the Page

My fav is Mission...but we got it on both legs last tour. Bring on Turn the Page...a killer classic.

Love all their music. But we all have favorites. I was hoping for nothing past 1987....not because I don't enjoy the post 80's but because we have been hammered by it in previous tours. I am hoping for a true Time Machine experience in being transported back to the golden age of their catalog 76-87. However I will not be dissapointed to hear the high quality tracks from the 90's. I don't think they will play too much though from this peroid. Maybe one tune from Presto, one from RTB, one from CP and one from T4E. I think they ignore VT and maybe play 2 tops from Snakes. So I think we get 6 tunes tops from the post 87 peroid. I hope they dig deep though for the CP tune and Presto tune. I disagree about the 90's being a lost decade. They gained a whole new segment of fan's in the 90's and we can thank Roll the Bones for that. That album drew in a bunch of new Generation Y Rush fans. They wrote some brilliant songs during the 90's: Show Don't Tell The Pass Available Light Dreamline Bravado Ghost of a Chance Wheres My Thing Roll The Bones (yes..this song rocks) Animate Cold Fire Alien Shore Cut to the Chase Leave That Thing Alone Double Agent Test for Echo Totem Driven Time and Motion Absolute top notch Rush right there.

Voted for Available Light. This is truly one of the unique and most ambitious tunes to come out of the Presto sessions. A great song IMO. I would rank my top 3 to want to hear as: Available Light Presto Show Don't Tell

It really has to have extra's or 5.1 mixes etc for me to buy the Rush catalog....again. I have all the remasters, MoFi golds...the S&A DVD/CD. So suprise me boy's...make me want to shell out the dough for the same music....again.

Bravado or Ghost of a Chance

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 24 2010, 10:24 PM) You say "DO and don't," and I say "Do AND don't." Meaning since one of those two poll choices is "don't," then this thread is ALSO for the people who don't want to know the setlist. Right? Time Machine is indeed a spoiler forum, and as we've stated a few times, you come in there at your own risk. Pags explained why he thought it was safe to enter this particular thread, and he (possibly) got burned (IF the aforementioned songs are indeed in the setlist). Hemispheres89 made an honest mistake, he apologized, and it's all good. Everyone here should check out the pinned thread atop this forum about how to post spoilers. One of the posts in there says this: Be careful about posting spoilers in threads that weren't started as spoiler threads, or are not marked as containing spoilers. If you want to post a spoiler, either start a new properly marked spoiler thread or look for an existing thread that fits your topic that is already marked "SPOILER". Got it.

QUOTE (upstateNYfan @ May 25 2010, 02:24 PM) Hello, It's all about commercial appeal and marketing. Records sold are one of a hundred ways to measure this, and it ties into their fee. Make no mistake: these fees are negotiated long in advance. Needless to say, they are two totally different types of bands. Who sells more beer? Bud or Dogfish Head? I am not an Aerosmith fan. And Rush fans should acknowledge how Aerosmith shit on them in '70's. As far as "no band is worth that much..." Wise up. Tell that to the thousands of rednecks who will be there. There's always the "Walk This Way" video on tv... Cheers! I don't like the fact they shit on Rush....but they do have some great good old fashioned rock n roll. Anywhoo.....it's all about Rush round these parts. And hell yes to getting a whopping 450K to jam...gotta love that.

QUOTE (GotRush @ May 25 2010, 01:03 PM) QUOTE (Todem @ May 25 2010, 09:51 AM)Ummmm talking about Rush here.....and on that note...Aerosmith puts on one hell of a live show...all energy and they also jam their ass's off be it not 3 hours....I believe you make as much as you can while the getting is good...who the hell are we to judge anyone in America on what they make...free country bro. We all try to earn what we can. At least I know I work my ass off and try to make as much as I can as well in an honest manner. And there is nothing more honest than playing great music for your fans....it does not get any more honest than that. Whether someone thinks a band has sucked since 1980 or not...it is quite obvious if Aerosmith can command a 1MM payday...they are doing something right. I don't think RUSH is going to do there typical 3 hour show @ the State Fair Gig..... Just cause Aerosmith can & get 1m for similar show doesn't mean they are doing anything right, just means they have kissed tons of ass to get universaly popular, they learned this trick during the late 80's & mtv era. ??? How much are tickets for this show ??? ??? Here @ the state fair it's $ 12 .00 dollars & you get GA into the venue They have about 1/3 reserved for like 20.00 extra But RUSH isn't playing the Fair here . . . . . Kissed ton's of ass? Ok then. I thought it was them selling millions of records...whether you like their music or not they have written a lot of hit songs since 1980 and have enjoyed their biggest commercial success in the late 80's and early 90's which has carried them this far. I love their older material but some of the stuff starting with Permanent Vacation was pretty damm good. They have also written some total garbage....but every band has had some bad moments. Again...they must be a draw to command that kind of money.

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 24 2010, 08:12 PM) QUOTE (Todem @ May 24 2010, 06:45 PM) They have toured their ass off for over 35 Years....good for them...g-d bless them....we all would love to be paid like that to jam for 3 hours. When is the last time Aeroshit did a Jam For 3 Hours ? They have sucked since 1980....imo Ummmm talking about Rush here.....and on that note...Aerosmith puts on one hell of a live show...all energy and they also jam their ass's off be it not 3 hours....I believe you make as much as you can while the getting is good...who the hell are we to judge anyone in America on what they make...free country bro. We all try to earn what we can. At least I know I work my ass off and try to make as much as I can as well in an honest manner. And there is nothing more honest than playing great music for your fans....it does not get any more honest than that. Whether someone thinks a band has sucked since 1980 or not...it is quite obvious if Aerosmith can command a 1MM payday...they are doing something right.

They have toured their ass off for over 35 Years....good for them...g-d bless them....we all would love to be paid like that to jam for 3 hours.

QUOTE (Pags @ May 24 2010, 02:09 PM) QUOTE (Hemispheres89 @ May 24 2010, 02:20 PM) QUOTE (Todem @ May 24 2010, 08:49 AM) I call BS on that "other" threads claim about the set-list. However if it really is the setlist.....wow. And I am spoiled because I looked....thinking...it has to be BS. Half of it may be dead on...a lot of realistic choices. But really....who knows right? I will be thrilled with whatever they play. It's all good. Yes, but there are several people who have included setlist claiming to have inside information. What I'm confused about is.. which setlist is this poster referring to? Is it from the thread of "Nobody's Hero"? This is a setlist that I believe, and quite frankly, if it's true... i'm TOTALLY EXCITED! However, the encore seems a bit fuzzy to me. I highly doubt they'd play In The Mood or FLy By Night. Neither has the pizazz to be an outro to a concert. Just my opinion Well who needs to peek at the setlist with you around??? Thanks, jerk. Pags, With all due respect....The Time Machine section on the main page has a disclaimer that this entire section is a spolier section enter at your own risk. So how can Hemispheres post be construed as a spolier when the post is in a thread in the so called spoiler section? Your a moderator...so please explain.