QUOTE (thelocator @ Sep 8 2010, 05:46 PM) QUOTE (rushgoober @ Sep 8 2010, 12:18 PM) You prove that not only are what albums we think are perfect or not is subjective, but how we view the concept of a perfect album or perfection itself is also entirely subjective.
Of course you won't agree with me that you proved anything, even inadvertently so, because you just think that you're right.
Well, I'd be willing to listen to an argument, but instead, you just make an accusation, or rather make an abrupt conclusion and then walk away...I am, in fact, still, clearly pushing forth this proclamation that there MUST BE at least 'some rules' involved here, guidelines leading to at least some level of 'objectivity', for any such list of 'perfection' to have any weight or legitimacy whatsoever.
Answer me this, since we've been using this one title as an example...Why is 'Aqualung' on so many people's lists like these? Why does that one, specific JT title appear so regularly, and not others like 'Too Old To Rock n' Roll' or 'Under Wraps'?...There must be some 'defining elements' which everyone is picking up on, leading to the same, semi-universal conclusion that this one, specific album, Aqualung, is on another level altogether...that this one recording transcends the JT catalog entirely and enters another, higher realm of objective artistry, not shared by other JT titles...or not shared by other artists.
I think that all of this is true, and objectively true, although 'what it is' that we're all picking up on when we hear this specific title kinda defies definition...and, so far, is a fully 'unconscious' deduction being made by us...WE are not privy at al to the unconscious, decision-making process leading to the conclusions, even though WE MIGHT actually be applying some set of 'Objective Criteria'...Maybe these things are true, but it's 'truth value' only pertains to, only regards human beings....or, perhaps, applies to an even smaller sub-class....maybe it's only true for musicaly-inclined humans.
Maybe, while rushgoober can see the truth of this, but only as applied to 'Aqualung'...thelocator can see this truth as applied to both Aqualung AND 'Thick as a Brick'...Perhaps, rushgoober posesses the musical-inclination to detect the truth of Aqualung's incredibly high value, and, would also see it in 'TAAB' as well, if afforded more time with the recording...But, at the same time, rushgooberfalsely detects this 'truth' with the 'Living in the Past' compilation because he lacks the philosophical-inclination to employ a set of 'Objective Criteria', the standards which would 'weed out' all non-serious contenders in the first place. And, of course, he'll now even refute the truth of me being able to detect the truth about his seeing some truths but avoiding others, because he, is in a form of denial about the objective nature of these things to begin with...and that denial clouds further truths from becoming evident...lol.
Back to Aqualung...All (most) of us seem to be able to detect and conclude that when all these elements of riffs, melody, uncommon meter and rhythmic patterns, unique vocal delivery, novel flute and acoustic guitar arrangements...when these elements all combine in the specific order in which they are found on Aqualung, the result is something on a much, much higher plane of 'artistry' than, say, the new Justin Beiber or Ludacris outings...IT IS an 'Objective' conclusion that we've all reached here, independently, although we, at the present time, are unable to convert this process of cerebral dissection into simple language. Maybe no explanation will ever exist because 'reductionism' doesn't apply here...even though the objectivity is there...We're able to make the 'consensus' ruling, but can't extrapolate any generalized 'rules' from all these Classic OR Perfect titles , which we could then use by going out to the garage immediatly and concocting one of our own masterpieces...
Listen, you will not find a bigger Jethro Tull fan than myself...I know nearly every single song, and literally have love for every single album title between '69 and '82, to varying degrees, of course...I personally CAN NOT understand why many-to-most other Rock fans are not all over this band, why they can't understand and appreciate them like I do...But, during another period of my life, I COULD NOT understand what anyone would find 'appealing' about them in the least...the complete polar opposite conclusion made about the same exact band by the same person...Not same 'exact' person, though...My tastes had changed, yes...This whole paragraph obviously speaks to my 'Subjective' tastes...But, to be fair, the time when I didn't like Jethro Tull also coincides with the period where I didn't really know much of the band's output, other than maybe the mere handful of songs that Classic Rock Radio permits us, allows us to know about...
Something objectively seperates those two aforementioned titles in the Jethro Tull discography which are able to transcend the band's catalog, the genre as a whole, and Rock Music itself, and qualify these items as things which approach 'Perfection'....I think that a bunch of albums from a bunch of different artists and genres are capable of fulfilling this objecive/unconscious set of criteria which determine these things for us...Like, myself, I'm able to make the deduction that an album is technically really good, without having to like it one bit...I remember the early U2 catalog posing this dilemma for me...Because friends listened to them all the time when I was a teen, I was able to deduce that many of those U2 titles were extremely solid works, but I didn't care for their sound one bit...That's true objectivity in action...I had a friend years back that couldn't stand Metal, but was still able to acknowledge that Queensryche's Mindcrime was a masterpiece...Imagine that, a masterpiece that he didn't want to hear at all...But, that's objectivity...
I think that I'm able to do the same thing wih a list such as this one, something which attempts to approximate a notion as abstract and elusive as 'perfection'...My list would only be as objective as my own tastes and my own musical knowledge would permit...which, still would allow for a much, much more broad, objective outlook and determinaton than the average person could hope to achieve with the same endeavor...In many ways, a list of my own undertaking would reflect and approximate the Rock fan population as a whole...Why is this?
Like I said, I believe myself to be really, really objective, man...lol...Or, at least 'capable' of being so, if not directly obvious with it in my daily applications...My list would look sorta like Rolling Stone's Top 500 album list after being beaten about the head, chest and neck area ...I think that VH1 did a similar one as well....Mine would probably share roughly 1/2 mass with the total average of these other lists...Their list would, of course, be padded for several different reasons...And, chopping the thing directly in half would make ample enough room for the essentials that these organizations couldn't touch upon for a multitude of political and financial reasons.
But, although there would be a massive amount of overlap, I'm betting that mine would be much more objective than even theirs...The reasons for this should be sorta obvious...They have obligations to people, to groups, to shareholders...To a certain degree, RS and VH1 would want to be as mainstream and mass-appeal as humanly possible, in an attempt to represent each genre and era of music fairly equally, so that they can appeal to all demographics and keep them all watching along until the next commerical break, as well as buying magazine subscriptions in droves...You would also see a major subjective slant given to that type of short, simplistic, lyrical, commercial-style of songwriting which appeals to the writing staff and publishers of RS and VH1...Ever notice which styles of music are celebrated at the Grammys?...Same would apply here to some degree...
Although, I certainly wouldn't have twenty five Bob Dylan titles and 20 Ramones albums on a list of 500...I would CITE SEVERAL OBSCURE TITLES, if and only if they were close to approximating this theme of 'perfection', yet still criminallly overlooked by the majority of people...I wouldn't just cite a title because I had a deep, personal fondness for it...I would include things I disliked, and would care not if I offended certain people by completely removing over-rated disasters such as The Beatles' White Album and The Rolling Stones' Exile on Main Street...
In short, myself, as as single individual, would be MUCH MORE PRACTICAL & OBJECIVE than teams of these people working in unison could ever be...and, that's mainly because I'd have no one writing me a check for my involvement in such an endeavor...And, secondly, because I tend to be a wholly disillusioned dude who sees things as they actually exist in the world, without the sugar-coating that most people get to add, due to the very human, yet very delusory nature of self.
You realize 1/ 100 members will read this and care?
