GabesCavesOfIce

Phil doing that on the 72nd at Winged Foot was indeed brutal. I was pointing out that some of those amazing -18 scores were partially the result of shooting at pins with a large lead, especially at the Pebble 2000 Open. Ordinarily, that would not be done in a US Open. Generally speaking, Watching the competition get intimidated, whether it's the golf world 1997-2005, or say the 90s Braves against the Yanks, for me at least, is the most boring of sporting events. Thankfully there is a new strong horse now, Rory, and potentially Spieth, to make it interesting , assuming Tiger is back for real competing in majors. Goose...to your point on Arnie, he actually won the 1964 Masters with a Tigeresque -12, with Jack finishing second. He also prevented Jack from winning majors prior to 1962 while Jack was an Amateur. .

You LA guys are lucky to have so many outdoor venues that are good for sound. SoCal is a cool place, but I'm never convincing my wife to move there, she's made that very clear to me. Retire one day in FL if I'm lucky. We have wind and rain in NY. Wind can be loud, and physically it actually blows the higher range sound waves and distorts the sound, for those not close. Rain blocks vision as well. If this were the Jones Beach forum instead of TRF, there would be tons of posters shaming me as to how awesome the beach is for concerts ;) The view of the moon reflecting off the ocean from the upper deck during a show is quite unique, but who wants to sit way up there! It's ironic CMS' article had MSG ranked high, which does have good acoustics, but Radio City Music Hall (music....) is supposed to be legendary for sound acoustics. It's actually that R30 light show, being center stage in the balcony fully immersed in the LVS lasers, was unreal. The only lights we saw were the lights Rush wanted us to see! Like hallucinating while straight...yeah right... Love reliving that...hehehe... ;)

Chronicles ;)

Unless you are at a handful of venues that are protected from the wind, or very close to the stage, outdoor acoustics is a fairly well known challenge to performing musicians- http://www.performing-musician.com/pm/apr09/articles/outdoorgigging.htm

Too bad. Although I did not agree with alot his musical preferences, it was enjoyable seeing Rush and "music of the spheres" from a different perspective. And LC ain't half bad neither! Guess he was joking about liking hemispheres and needed to get away from most of us droolin over it.

Cool article CMS, thx for sharing. Alot of those outdoor places have unique views, as does Jones which thankfully didn't make the list. People LOVE it here and the acoustics are terrible. But if Rush is there, I'm going! Now I get why VS raves about Hollywood bowl, its built in side of mountain that keeps the sound in place. At Jones, there goes half the sound on half the world with the wind. This thread has reminded me of how incredible Radio City R30 light show was. Its a 6,000 seat theatre, small for Rush here. One of the shows we were in first balcony first row, and we were at a perfect 45 degree angle above the stage inn center, but very close compared to a hockey arena. We were literally immersed in the lights and lasers for most of the show. What a trip. .

Setting, in the Canadian woods, mid 70s, parallel universe... Neil: ...hey Broonsie, when ya done huffin that doob, swing on by, got some lyrics for a new song Broon: Sure Neil, what ya got? Neil: "It is what it is - and whatever" Broon: WTF. Holy chit! WTF was that?? Seriously man, you can play the skins, but I ain't letting you take down the band with THAT! Hey Ray, get me Rutsey on the phone, Neil's out! ...sorry, couldn't resist ;)

Wherever did Seque go? Him n Mick were all gangbusters a few days ago about Hemispheres, thought we and rush convinced him about the Hemispheres aura, then crickets...

Goose, I agree fully with six of Tiger's majors that were -14 or better. He was untouchable. Most of those were in fact early in his career. Makes one question why he tinkered with his swing at that time. The other 8 majors, I think are open to the competition question. Plenty of major scores in that range over the last 40-50+ years. It could be pointed out that when you are on fire, have a lead at lets say -9 in third round. The pressure is off a bit, opens up the opportunity to take chances that a golfer probably would not do in a major. That was a factor in some of those insane -18's that Tiger posted. He was intimidating then. .

Jack can fill up this thread with passages like the three below. Tiger never faced challenges like this early in his career (while losing and keeping his major total lower). Jack had more close call losses AS AN AMATEUR, than Tiger in his entire career- At the 1960 U.S. Open (as an Amateur!!) , Nicklaus shot a two-under par 282, finishing second by two strokes to Arnold Palmer, who won the tournament with a final round charge of six-under-par 65. This score remains the lowest ever by an amateur in the U.S. Open. Nicklaus played the final 36 holes with Ben Hogan, who later remarked he had just played 36 holes with a kid who should have won by 10 shots. He tied for fourth in the 1961 U.S. Open (Amateur still), three shots behind champion Gene Littler, having played the final 54 holes one under par. His first professional win came in his 17th start, defeating the heavily favored Arnold Palmer in a Sunday playoff at Oakmont for the 1962 U.S. Open. While the galleries were more than vocal in their support for Palmer, who had grown up in the area, Nicklaus won the playoff by three shots (71 to 74). .

I kept the golden era list at 40- stopped it at 4 with Floyd because I was trying to highlight the big three - Gary, Tom and Arnie. I thought that this was a "major" major departure from the Tiger era. Tiger never had to deal with anyone like that, especially in his formative years 1997-2000. Those are the tough wins as a young player, and noone was "protecting the veterans" back then (meaning putting up a low # and making Tiger beat that, or just putting pressure on him as Jack had to deal with). Although Arnie stopped winning majors surprisingly early in his career, he was competitive in final rounds through a good portion of the 70s. And when Jack was young, he started winning in the early 60s, when Arnie was a major force. If I open it up to multiple winners in Jacks era, lets bring in Casper, Irwin, Borros, Fuzzy, North Stockton. Brings it to 54. Fifty Four! And because Jacks era is much longer so far (2009-2014+ will not count in Tigers era, not sure he was much of a major competitor then), I left off Nelson, Crenshaw, Lyle, Green, Graham, another 11. Its not really about the 54-26 competition of multi major winners. Its that the elite golfers in Jack's era prevented him from winning more. I am not seeing that at all in the Tiger era. -----edit-----To be fair to his 2009 - 2013 era, he finished second to Yang at the PGA, three back. And 4 back of Ernie at the British Open, when they were tied thru 11. 2 chances to win from behind, something hes never done, TTBOMK (is that a thing?) Folks, I really dont get the depth issue. That JB Holmes is awesome and hitting it a mile, how is finishing 40th in a major stopping Tiger from winning? Arnie, Gary, Tom...they were good enough to put pressure on Jack Often, and literally take majors away from him. .

Part of my commentary is to shed some perspective on Tiger era. No media announcer would be critical of today's players (in aggregate) it's like that in all sports. And that is a great list of players. What's missing is one of them preventing Tiger when he is on fire and deserving a major. One of those dudes walking down 17 or 18....with one Birdie, Tiger is finished, or ...Tiger is in a playoff. Speaking mainly from a fan perspective, exciting finishes have been in short supply during the Tiger run, when Tiger is in the hunt. We had Rocco and YE, neither had that kind of push ever again. Frankly, Tiger is rarely in the hunt. Either he is on fire and wins (or no one else can break par), or he is hanging back 5-9 strokes and doesn't make a run. And Jack had about 5 snatched away from him. Let's hope Chambers Bay has an exciting finish.

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Palmer, Trevino, Player, Watson, Seve, Floyd... That's 40 majors between them. If Jack was a stroke or two off in a major he lost to a legend. Lost. Jacks margin of error was tiny... If Jack were two strokes better, he'd have 23 majors, Tiger would have Zero chance of catching him. Tiger never faced that challenge, preventing him for adding to his major total. Tigers margin of error was huge. Name a major champion that has a major victory number that would make that list, who ever prevented Tiger from winning a major. Let's relive that major, it would have been exciting. Phil was closest at Bethpage, but bogeyed 17 and fell a few shots back, if my memory is right. Can't think of anything closer. "It is what it is - and whatever" ...NEP

Setting, in the Canadian woods, mid 70s, parallel universe... Neil: ...hey Broonsie, when ya done huffin that doob, swing on by, got some lyrics for a new song Broon: Sure Neil, what ya got? Neil: "It is what it is - and whatever" Broon: WTF was that?? Hey Ray, get me Rutsey on the phone, Neil's out! ...Courtesy of Dr Bishop

So sorry for your loss. Keep up the good fight!

I believe he thought of himself as a vested member of Rush, and they would not resort to firing him, because he believed he was doing what was best for the bands sound. I get the impression he spoke his mind freely and critically with them and by the time they became superstars, they started to be surrounded by yes men, and his frankness stuck out like a sore thumb. He was wrong on Digital Man, for it is quite good. Certainly it's not 100% that post Broon is bad, but it's amazing how they did not have their exceptional musical focus and clarity of sound post Signals. Everybody else now just wants to play with and stamp their name on a Rush record. Broon wanted to help CREATE it. that's a major difference. in my view. Mick Very true Mick. It's also very difficult for an "outsider" to tell superstars- you are wrong, that sounds terrible, here is what we are going to do. Yes they want to not get fired and stamp their name on a Rush record.

I believe he thought of himself as a vested member of Rush, and they would not resort to firing him, because he believed he was doing what was best for the bands sound. I get the impression he spoke his mind freely and critically with them and by the time they became superstars, they started to be surrounded by yes men, and his frankness stuck out like a sore thumb. He was wrong on Digital Man, for it is quite good. Certainly it's not 100% that post Broon is bad, but it's amazing how they did not have their exceptional musical focus and clarity of sound post Signals.

I love seeing the shows at outdoor amphitheaters, but Jones Beach is horrible. The wind destroys the sound, and the no-alcohol rule results in the most listless crowds I've seen. There is no question that Jones Beach is among the worst venues in the country. I've never understood why so many artists choose to perform there. Thanks Led, how could I have forgotten it was a dry venue for so long? They now have a nonVIP drinking area, but it was closed for the Zoundgarden NIN show I was at last year. Horrible venue. JC, rumor has it Jones pays out the most moolah...the almighty $$. I recall my first Rush show, MP at Nassau Coli, and when the lights went out, and the opening synths and pyros for Overture and all the wild lights and lasers, nothing like that. that magic cant be reproduced at outdoor place. The light show at Radio City in R30 was un effing believable. Sound acoustics at MSG can't be duplicated outside IMHO. Central Park has a nice one outdoor venue, but no aura.

I am not exaggerating CMS, every freakin time, either rain, or how did it miss us?

True. Considering that Terry Brown was definitely not in favor of the keys becoming a more and more dominant presence in their overall sound, it would seem to me that Geddy would have been the one who wanted a change in another direction (and away from Brown) the most. But in the end, I don't really know at all. I think its more than the keys. I liked PoW when it came out, although it was far from my fave. But the keys created a "lost focus of the sound" and confusion as to their identity. What speaks really loudly about Hemispheres, is they can be off playing their own very complicated lines, and then boom, they come together hitting the beats in unison with power focus and precision. That takes clarity about what ones musical ambition is. The post-Broon works, it sounds to me the want an ounce of this and ounce of that. Lets let Alex do a little riffing, some harmonics, but then lets add some complex keys for sophistication. OK maybe a little bass. Lets layer in some more keys. The producers were more like employees, wanted to run their vision for approval. Broon was more like a founding member. He understood how to get their best talents, Bass, drum, guitar emphasized and recorded.

CMS, if those are 22nd row, sounds like you got a decent price. In NY area, seats are way more expensive.

Please get this straight and keep it straight. I don't know what some of you think, but the reason why I start threads it to keep myself and others entertained and busy. 99% of the time, I have a genuine interest in the outcome of a poll, or the information that I ask for (like Alex and his guitar) and want to discuss. If I don't start a thread, I don't see many others doing it - outside of Zumbi. That's the only reason why I start the number of threads I do. Lorraine, I enjoy your polls and threads. Thought that was apparent on the Hemispheres / BTLS discussion. Sometimes I guess its difficult to express intent on a post. I should have put a wink there....

Rush is to blame, as much as I love them. It was their (drummers?) decision to kill the mouth that stood up to them. Not just sound quality, but every aspect of their musical production, they did not have the decisiveness and clarity of Broon.

I usually sit close as well and don't see the full effect of the lights, but Rush came on at7:38PM last time at Jones Beach. A full hour of day light. Might as well been the fresh beat band ;) Another huge issue that you folks don't get as much as we do is the RAIN. EVERY Jones Beach show I have been either it has rained, chance of rain, or rained earlier in day and place is soaked. One Rush show within the last five years, we had a SoCal style stretch of weather. Sun and 80 for ten days in a row. That is rare around here. So I'm running out of the house late afternoon to the show. On a hunch I check weather last second, and notice next to the sun icon, 30% chance rain appears. I recall thinkin wtf, hasn't rained n two weeks, wasn't supposed to rain all week. Lo and behold, even that show, it rained. As some can attest, we are very lucky to get rain, but seriously, every show. Even Ged mentions it mid show. Indoor venue removes this variable. No comparison IMHO. .