ak2112

The spine of the CD will have the catelog number (in the case of the Japanese versions, they always end in "P").

For vocals, I like the St. Louis version, but only for the really high pitched stuff. I think the DS version blows it away musically and I'm shocked that some think it lacks energy. The drums in particular are just off the hook, especially at the end. Just awesome. Wish I could have seen that tour!

OK fellow Rush freaks. I have now done this exercise with Moving Pictures and Signals, now comes Power Windows. I only have 3 versions of this album myself but have borrowed a friends Japanese version, so here are the competitors: 1. SHM-CD version 2. 97 remaster 3. Japanese 32.8P 4. Japanese 25.8P I limited my comparison to three songs on the album because they are my 3 faves, and thus, I'm most familiar with them and all their wonderful nuances. The songs are: Grand Designs Manhattan Project Middletown Dreams My system consists of two Polk Audio LSi25 speakers with built in powered subwoofers, a NAD T763 reciever serving as my preamp, a Rotel RB1080 two channel amp and a Denon DVD2900 Universal player. All of this is routed through a Monster AVS2000 voltage stabilizer. All speaker cables and interconnects I use are from Audioquest. I listened to each song in its entirety and then played the first 10 seconds of the song again before switching to another disc (dont ask me why I do this but it kind of helps me remember how a given versions sounds right before I switch discs). NOTE" in order to REALLY do this kind of thing justice, I should probably listen to all of every album and pick out which song on which disc songs the best on a given version but right now I'm being lazy and am going for all around sound quality. Here were my results: 1. Japanese 32.8P/Japanese 25.8P 3. SHM-CD 4. 97 remaster The two Japanese versions were clearly the best of the 4 to my ears but they also sounded pretty much identical to each other. I put each disc through the software Exact Audio Copy" to compare each Japanese discs peak levels and, sure enough, they were identical so I think they're from the same mastering. At any rate, they both sounded warm and non-fatiguing at even extreme volumes. The SHM-CD was nice in its own way but it was about 3dB louder than the Japanese versions and thus a little more hard on the ears after a long listening session. The 97 remaster, like all the other remasters I've heard (save for Caress of Steel which is the one remaster that I do like) was about 5dB louder than the Japanese discs and about 2dB louder than the SHM-CD. HARSH, HARSH, HARSH!! Did the people who did these remasters ever hear of the phrase "dynamic range"? Geez!!!!! At any rate, the SHM isnt bad it just is a little too loud for my tastes and not as warm sounding as the two Japanese versions, plus the soundstage of the Japanese discs is wider and more enveloping on my system. However, the SHM is a pretty good sounding disc, much better than the remaster, and the original duplicated artwork is topnotch; a very nice collectable (if you can find them for a decent price that is since it is now long OOP). I'm gld I didnt try to buy the 25.8P myself as it goes for crazy prices. For those that care, the 32.8P seems easier to find and cheaper on the wallet and is the EXACT same master as the 25.8P so save yourself some $$ and get it if you can. They are both gorgeous masters and blow the 97 remaster out of the water. Anyway, short and sweet. For whatever reason, the Japanese sure know what they're doing when it comes to mastering albums with full dynamic range without brickwalling and also adding some nice artwork an liner notes (both the non SHM Japanese discs come with a 16 page booklet with English and Japanese lyrics). Get one if you can folks!!

QUOTE (ghostworks @ May 14 2011, 12:22 PM) interesting research, AK! I did an a/b/c/d test with 'Signals' CD's a few years ago myself when the SHM-CD hype was in full effect here's a link to the full review: Signals - on compact disc, '89, '94, '97 and '09 editions reviewed we both used three of the four same discs for our years-apart independent tests, and the final results are revealing: AK2112 1. Japanese 25.8P 2. MFSL 3. Original US Atomic 4. 97 remaster GHOSTWORKS 1. MFSL 2. '89 W. German (i.e. Original US Atomic) 3. SHM-CD 4. '97 Remaster I'm compelled to start a campaign to buy up those '97 'Signals' remasters on principle and encourage people to snap them in half and ditch them in recycle bins across the world on the 30th anniversary (September 9, 2012) WHO'S WITH ME? Amen to that brother! You took the words right out of my mouth!

And even better, its getting the audiophile treatment by Audio Fidelity to be released on July 19th. I've already pre-ordered my copy!

QUOTE (Oracle @ Jul 2 2011, 07:45 PM) No! They haven't been to Anchorage, Alaska yet! They can't end the tour now! Amen to that. They need to come here so I dont have to keep travelling down to the lower 48 to see them!

Louder = less dynamic range, and that's a fact. However, I enjoy your wit as always!

That's easy. Anything off of VT....an absolute disaster of a record.

For some people, louder = better. Not me. I'll stick with the 25.8P and MFSL when I want the best sound.

I already did this once for Moving Pictures and I'll soon do this again for Power Windows, but the following is my review of several different masterings of the album Signals. The versions reviewed are as follows: 1. Original US Atomic (810 002-2) 2. Japanese 25.8P 1st pressing (25.8P-5169) 3. The MFSL (Mobile Fidelity Sound Labs) master (UDCD 614) 4. The 1997 remaster (314 534 633-2) I didnt listen to the whole album for this review, but rather 3 songs, Subdivisions, The Weapon, and Losing It (my all time favorite Rush song). I played each song all the way through without interruption, then had my wife switch out the CD's and play the sojng on the next master. I did not know which version I was listening to but merely kept track of them as disc #1, #2, etc and had my wife keep track of the true identity of each. I also had her switch up the order of which disc she played with each song so that things stayed as random and blind as possible. For each song and each CD, I made notes on things like overall sound stage, detail, loudness, perceived warmth and overall tonal quality. The results are in and here is how thet ranked out! One note should be made. I knew during The Weapon when I was listening to the MFSL as it has the missing vocal towards the end. However, other than that, I really didnt know which verison I was hearing at the time. Anyway, here is my final ranking: 1. Japanese 25.8P 2. MFSL 3. Original US Atomic 4. 97 remaster First off, I wish I could rank the 97 remaster something like #158 or something because it truly was not in the same league as the other 3 verions. It was a loud, brickwalled mess and I could tell when it was being played EVERY SINGLE TIME because it was so friggin terribly loud...about 8dB louder than any other disc in the group. Just terrible. it sounded tinny and harsh and it didnt matter what song was playing. Although you could make a little more detail because of the loudness, that didnt make up for the overall sonic mess...just terrible! The other three were much MUCH harder to choose a ranking for. However, the biggest surprise for me was that the MFSL got beat. It was my go-to version for this album for a while. I only recently won the 25.8P version off of ebay so it was the new kid in the house. However, the warmth and overall sound quality of this version makes it my new fave. It is the closest I have heard this album get to vinyl and was a true wonder to behold. It is the loudest of the three (though nowhere near as loud as the 97 remaster) but that didnt hurt the overall presentation, rather it seemed only to enhance it. Now, I still prefer thee MFSL for "The Weapon" just because I love that verson without the vocal line and it is the original version, not the one that was eventually released in 1982. The MFSL is a close 2nd to the 25.8P and the US Atomic is very nice as well. The only downside for the Atomic is that is actually TOO quiet in my opinion and you really have to crank it up to hear any detail. Still, it does sound nice and it will remain in my collection, as will the horrid 97 remaster, if, for no other reason than to help show just how bad a BAD remaster can be! Well, there you go folks. I would say, if you ever get the chance to pick up the Japanese 25.8P do not hesitate as it is the definitive verions of this album. However, the MFSL is no slouch either, its just that it tends to be a tad pricey these days! Anyway, that was a quick and dirty review. If you want any more specific details, just ask! ENJOY!!!

I just love that you put The Fountain of Lamneth as your #1 song! Although I dont agree, this winter I revisted Caress of Steel and it really grew on me. It used to be my second least favorite album (after VT), but now its right up there with some of my favorites. Sadly, I dont think VT will ever gain ground. Just a horrible record in my opinion. Every song from VT would be at the bottom of any list I would make.

QUOTE (Presto-digitation @ Mar 9 2008, 04:01 PM) I really enjoy VT, despite the mastering...but S&A is their best album since Signals. Agree on that one. S&A is awesome. I'm sorry but I cannot listen to any song on VT all the way through. Their worst album by FAR IMHO...

Excuse the mis-print. I meant "Original Master Recording"!

It is indeed the MFSL version. You can always tell a MFSL by the "Original Mater Recording" printed at the top. The price listed on ebay is a few dollars cheaper than what I paid for it by ordering directly from Mobile Fidelity.

QUOTE (Gilbertk @ Nov 29 2010, 12:58 PM) QUOTE (LeaveMyThingAlone @ Nov 29 2010, 11:00 AM) Looks like I'm hitting this "very special" Los Angeles show. Wonder what that means.....not like Rush to do something extraordinary for one show....could they have a special guest? Maybe Aimee Mann on Time Stand Still??? I had thought that that would be pretty cool if they did that just once. That would be VERY special! Perhaps Ben Mink... but I'm not sure what he would play seeing he was involved in none of the songs in the Time Machine set. Boy I'd love it if Ben Mink was a special guest cause that might mean they'd finally play my all time favorite Rush song "Losing It"'live!!

I still dont have thhe MFSL of Moving Pictures so I cant make a blanket statement yet about all of the Rush MFSL's but let me tell you, the MFSL of Signals is something to behold. I always thought of this album as kind off "tired" for lack of a better term. I'm not sure why but it just wasnt one of my favorites. This MFSL though has made it an all new album for me. It's so warm and dynamic and the "alternate" version of the weapon is fantastic! Losing It has always been my all time fave Rush song but other than that I never really gave the album much attention. This MFSL is like hearing it for the first time every time I give it a spin. Every Rush fan owes it to themselves (especially if you have a nice stereo system) to get this version of the album. The others that I own are the best versions as well but there's something about Signals that just really grabs me. Fantastic!

Got a bid on a West German pressing of Moving Pictures today for .99 cents. Six days to go on the action but hopefully I can get a copy just for comparison with the other 3 versions of this album that I own!

Well I feel I have a pretty hefty priced system (about 14K) and a pretty good ear and the differences are definately there though sometimes they're subtle. Sometimes though, the differences are striking. The MFSL Signals and Permanent Waves are prime examples of this. They sound much warmer and more detailed than the remasters, which deifnately come across as overly harsh sometimes, though I still enjoy listening to them for some albums and songs. I think they get beat out though by the new SHM-CD's. You can look at the waveforms of these albums on Audacity and see a very nice looking readout that isnt brickwalled or overly compressed. The remasters are so lound that I looks like a solid black wall on the waveform. I enjoy comparing different masterings of albums these days and so I'm on a mission to find the best sounding Rush albums I can. Like I said, I can only hope they release the Rush albums on SACD some day. Biy, what a joy that would be! On the hunt for the W. German atomics. Thanks for the heads up ghost!

Without a doubt, it's Losing It for me. The best lyrics Neil ever wrote with a beautiful vocal by Geddy and some great playing overall. Not only is it my fave off of the album, it's my favorite Rush song...period!

Does anyone know where I could get my hands on an Atomic West German pressing of the Rush albums? Dont know if they're difficult to obtain but I'd enjoy hearing them as they have got high praise in many audiophile circles.

I've decided to have a $80 upper limit on buying the MFSL Rush albums. I have all of them now save for Moving Pictures, but, unfortunately, that seems to be the priciest album. Another downside for me is that I live in Alaska and there isnt a used CD store in town so I wont be able to luck out and find a copy in a place like that. Still I persist. For me, the sonics of the MFSL's are so superior that until they release Rush on SACD or DVD-A, it just wont get any better sounding. God, I hope they release the Rush Catalog on high rez format. There are plenty of Rush freaks like me out there with the stereo systems to appreciate them and the willingness to shell out the $$ to buy them!!

QUOTE (ghostworks @ Nov 18 2010, 10:16 AM) QUOTE (Ron2112 @ Nov 18 2010, 09:37 AM) The MFSL releases don't sound anywhere near as good as the '97 remasters. ^ absurd the '97 remasters are on average the absolute worst way to listen to Rush on CD the original W. German releases trump them all even the MFSL of Permanent Waves is sub-par to the original CD release in July of last year I gave four official versions of 'Signals' CD's a critical review: > Mercury W. Germany release | 1989 > Mobile Fidelity (MFSL) release | 1994 > Mercury Remasters release | 1997 > Anthem/Atlantic SHM release | 2009 it might surprise you to find out where each version lands on the 'best to worst' scale (link: GhostWorks - Signals Review ) Great review ghostworks! Very detailed and interesting. I dont own Signals on SHM-CD but do own 3 others. However, I love the sound of them and I think they easily beat the 1997 remasters and the packaging is, as you said, fantastic. My SHM of Hemispheres in particular sounds amazing...very "vinyl like" for lack of a better term. One question. Are the W. German atomic CD's hard to find? Which ones would you recommend picking up if I was so inclined? If they really are going to remaster the Rush catalog in 2011, I sure hope they release at least some titles in SACD or better yet, DVD-Audio. I cant think of many bands that would benefit more from a high rez upgrade that Rush! I'd especially love to hear 2112 and Power Windows in a high rez format!

QUOTE (nealpert @ Nov 18 2010, 04:40 AM) What kind of speakers and amp are you using? Is your room treated? My room is not treated. The wife wouldnt allow that I have a full 5.1 setup consisting of Polk Audio LSi25 mains, LSiC center, and LSiFX surrounds. I have a NAD T763 receiver and a 2 channel Rotel amp. It really sings and I love my system! BTW, I can see why some would like the 1997 remasters, even though they have been made much louder. They have more balls than the original CD releases. However, the MFSL's I think are superior to any of the other versions I've heard. The dynamics are fantastic and "warm" is a perfect way to describe Signals. I love my SHM's as well. Going to look at the Signals review now!

Ok, so I know I posted something similar about this earlier, but I have been on a quest to collect all four of the Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab remasters of Rush albums (2112, Permanent Waves, Moving Pictures and Signals). So far, I have succeeded in getting all of them except for MP. All I can say is that if you've invested in a good stereo system, you owe it to yourself to get the best quality recordings you can get. And if you're a Rush fan, the four MFSL releases are a must. Permanent Waves is still in print and easily available. The others are more difficult to get a hold of, especially if you dont want to pay extra for them! I bought PW directly from MFSL this summer and was so blown away, I started my quest to get the others. I plopped down $55 to get Signals and another $50 to get 2112. However, MP has been a motherf*cker to get. The cheapest I've seen it go for has been around $80 on the *bay, and new, sealed copies are selling in the $300 to $700 range! Even for a Rush freak like me, thats just crazy. I will keep up the quest to get them though. The first time I put the MFSL remaster of PW on the system, I could not believe my ears. There were details I had never heard before from an album I had been listening to for 30 years! If you can drop the extra coin for the MFSL albums, I also highly recommend the new SHM-CD's from Japan. If nothing else, they're awesome collectors items with the Obi strip and mini Lp presentation. In addition, them and the MFSL are the closest to vinly sounding I have ever heard the digital medium get. The SHM's also benefit (or to my ear they do) from repeated playing as the sound quality seems to improve with each spin. At any rate, I'd be curious to hear from the other Rush audiophiles on hear about this subject again. I apologize for posting on this topic again, but I'm so jazzed about these albums I cant help it. I've had the MFSL of Signals on all evening and it just rocks the remaster out of the water. Plus, the final bit of the lyrics on "The Weapon" are missing on this version of the album. Apparently, this is how the song was originally recorded by the boys...very cool. Plus, my all time favorite Rush song "Losing It" sounds simply epic on here!!!!

Personally, I'm glad you put many of the songs from Vapor Trails at the bottom. I'm a Rush fanatic but that album just sucks ass. Every song is too long and sounds tired and unfocused. Strange that their first album in 6 years would be so lame, not to mention the horrible production and sound quality. I have never been able to listen to the album for very long. Just terrible....