The Iron Maiden & Clive Burr Split ( and a question for anyone who saw them in '82 )

[Lucas]

I love Maiden, and Clive Burr is one of my all time favorite drummers - the first three albums with Clive on drums are untouchable for me, some of the greatest metal ever recorded ..

 

I saw them three times in 1982, and while they went on to have huge success with Nicko, they never were quite as fiery or exciting ( for me ) after Clive left ..

 

Ever since the 80s, I had thought that Clive Burr was let go because of his increasing reliance and issues with alcohol, to the point, as Steve Harris has been quoted, of having a "puke bucket" next to his drums during the Number Of The Beast tour ..

 

Earlier this evening, I read another side of the story - that Clive Burr's father had died suddenly during the North American leg of the Beast tour sometime in '82, and Clive flew back for two weeks to be with his family .. In the interim, Nicko McBrain was supposedly brought aboard to fill in on drums ( Nicko was friends with Clive, and had actually worn the Eddie mask onstage at early Maiden gigs )

 

When Clive returned two weeks later, according to him, things weren't the same, and soon after, there was a band meeting and he was fired .. He said that the alcohol issues was completely blown out of proportion, and instead of stressing, he just accepted it and moved forward ..

 

This is the first time that I have ever heard that Nicko played onstage with Maiden on the Beast tour ....

 

My first question is for anyone who saw them in 1982 - esp for you X1YYZ, as I recall you said that you saw them in Oakland ( which would have been July 18th .... )

 

Did anyone see Maiden in '82 with Nicko on drums ???

 

I saw them June 30th, Oct 2nd and again on Oct 22nd of '82 - all those shows had Clive on drums ..

 

 

I tried researching the exact date of Ronald Burr's passing ( Clive's father ), but came up with nothing ....

 

By my estimation, the alleged Nicko shows would have fallen between July and Aug '82, which would mean the Oakland show was with Nicko, not Clive ..

 

 

Any other thoughts and opinions would be great

 

RIP Clive

 

 

Here's the most in depth thing I could find:

 

 

... Before we get to how he started with Iron Maiden, and just how good they were with Clive powering them along, it’s perhaps more pertinent to address how it finished. This is something that has gnawed away at Clive for the best part of 30 years. Much has been written about his split from Maiden, during an exhaustive US tour in the summer of 1982. And most of it, he says dismissively, is hogwash.

“I’ve heard the stories – that it was because of drugs or too much drink,” he says. “It wasn’t anything like that.” The truth, as it often is in cases of heavy metal musical chairs, is a bit murkier, a bit more acrimonious. It started with a phone call. He doesn’t recall where he was when he got the call, he just remembers that he had to get home to London. His dad, Ronald, had died unexpectedly of a heart attack. He was just 57 years old.

 

A US road map dotted with gigs lay in front of Maiden, but at that moment it didn’t matter, he says. “I had to get home.” Everyone seemed fine with that, he remembers. Go home, they said. Be with your family. Clive flew back to London on Concorde.

Maiden brought in former Trust drummer Nicko McBrain as a replacement so the tour could continue, the show could go on. Clive and Nicko were mates. No worries. Everything was cool.

“I knew Nicko,” Clive says. Nice bloke. Good drummer. At a number of earlier shows, Nicko had dressed up as Eddie to terrorise the crowd. “He loved the band, he loved being part of it all. And the rest of the band liked him.” Clive was about to find out just how much.

So Clive flew home, went to his father’s funeral, spent some time with his family, and two weeks later flew back to the States to join up with Maiden, who were criss-crossing America supporting Rainbow, Scorpions, .38 Special and Judas Priest.

 

“I got back and I could tell something wasn’t right,” Clive recalls.

There was a meeting. The atmosphere was tense. There was change in the air, and Clive, still numb from the loss of his dad, could smell it.

“We think it’s time for a break,” they told Clive. And that was that. After the best part of four years, three albums – not just any old albums, either, but the three albums that many Iron Maiden fan will tell you remain the band’s best work – and suddenly the dream was over, just as it was all coming true.

Everybody knows what happened next for Maiden.

What happened next for Clive Burr was a case of dusting himself down and starting all over again. He was grieving for his dad. Now he was also grieving for his band and the job he’d dreamt of since he first saw Ian Paice playing Highway Star with Deep Purple.

Back home in the UK the rumours were rife: it was the drugs that were to blame for his dismissal; it was the drink; that Clive liked the beer, sex and rock’n’roll just a little bit more than the others; that sometimes he had to play shows with a bucket by the side of his drum stool for when those hangovers became just a little bit too much... The rock’n’roll high jinks were getting in the way of the band, everyone agreed. Everyone except Clive.

 

Thirty years on, he says it still smarts to hear it. He was never a big drinker. Sure, he’d have a brandy and Coke – a Courvoisier and Coke, “my roadie used to get it for me before we went on,” he laughs – but nothing too debauched. No more or less than anyone else in the band.

“We were like schoolkids in America,” he says. “We’d never been there before and it opened our eyes. There was a lot of parties, and girls were throwing themselves at us. We’d never experienced anything like it.” Clive – the lad who had been voted teen

magazine Oh Boy ’s Hunk Of The Month in July 1980 – lapped it up. “Of course I did. We all did.” And then it was gone.

 

Clive flew back to London again, then on to Germany with his mum, and laid low.

“I was too upset to feel angry about it,” he says. “There was a grieving period – I grieved for my dad and I grieved for my band – and then I brushed myself down and got on with it.” Just like that?

“Pretty much, yeah. There was no real bitterness. Life’s too short.

“It’s good to set the record straight, to tell my side of the story,” he says, “because it’s not widely known. I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that.” fter Maiden, Clive played with a number of bands in fairly quick succession: Graham Bonnet’s Alcatrazz (that lasted a week), Trust (Nicko’s old band), Stratus, so-called NWOBHM supergroup Gogmagog, Elxir, Dee Snider’s Desperados. None of them would come close to matching what he achieved with Maiden. And yet for Clive it didn’t matter.

 

“I just wanted to play. When I came home from Germany after Maiden, I used to put my hair in a hat, put some dark glasses on and play with anyone who’d have me, in the pubs around London,” he laughs. “I just wanted to drum.” ...

[Disembodied Spirit]

Lucas I remember reading ALL or a portion of book written by Mick Wall about Maiden

Mick Wall wrote for Kerrang magazine for years.

I think he went into detail about Clive's departure...however locating the exact dates may be a difficult task...

I'll do some research when I have time. Like u, I'm a huge Maiden head....

I did not see them live until 1983...so I never got to see Clive live....I'm up for a project however

[x1yyz]

That's sad about how Clive got kicked out of the band. But Maiden has never been a stranger to interpersonal drama, sadly.

 

When I saw that show I was up in the stands in a stadium, so I couldn't see much of the band. Even if I were closer I'm not sure I would have recognized Clive vs. Nicko. Poop, though. All these years I had been happy I had a chance to see Maiden with Clive :(

[Lucas]

That's sad about how Clive got kicked out of the band. But Maiden has never been a stranger to interpersonal drama, sadly.

 

When I saw that show I was up in the stands in a stadium, so I couldn't see much of the band. Even if I were closer I'm not sure I would have recognized Clive vs. Nicko. Poop, though. All these years I had been happy I had a chance to see Maiden with Clive :(

 

There is a bootleg from that Oakland show x1yyz .... It's hard to tell because of the quality - I will listen closer when I get back home to my computer with the big speakers ( I;m at a friend's now )

 

I have only scanned thru this show, but I didn't hear Bruce introducing any of the band ... There are a bunch of bootlegs I will listen to in the next day or so ....

 

the July-Aug thing was only my logical estimate - IF it ever happened ... Aug and Sept could be a possibility too ...

 

I've go this bootleg on now, and as bad as the quality is, 22 Acacia Ave sounds like Clive

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX2lPk9YOXg

[Lucas]

... x1yyz, I think you saw Clive

 

We're sitting here trying to listen, and I am comparing the Oakland Number of The Beast to the 1983 Dortmund show with Nicko ..

 

Just after Bruce sings "was someone watching me", Clive does a very distinct fill starting on the snare .. and the '83 show has Nicko starting that fill on the toms ..

 

Not sure Nicko would have learned it exactly like the recording so early on, only to change it later ...

 

You saw Clive

[x1yyz]

Okay, good, that's something at least :)

[Lucas]

Listening now to every bootleg I can

 

These are DEFINITELY Clive:

 

- June 30th, 1982 - Glen Head, NY

- August 5th, 1982 - Chicago

- August 28th, 1982 - Reading

- October 2nd, 1982 - MSG

- October 22nd, 1982 - New Jersey

- November 29th, 1982 - Osaka

 

And I am sure the July 20th Oakland show is also

 

.. will listen to more tomorrow

Edited July 17, 2016 by Lucas

[Your_Lion]

... x1yyz, I think you saw Clive

 

We're sitting here trying to listen, and I am comparing the Oakland Number of The Beast to the 1983 Dortmund show with Nicko ..

 

Just after Bruce sings "was someone watching me", Clive does a very distinct fill starting on the snare .. and the '83 show has Nicko starting that fill on the toms ..

 

Not sure Nicko would have learned it exactly like the recording so early on, only to change it later ...

 

You saw Clive

You solved that like Columbo

[Rod in Toronto]

I always thought the "official" version for Clive's departure was that he didn't want to spend so much time on the road.

[Disembodied Spirit]

I reached out to Mick Wall on this issue.

Probably be ignored, but maybe he will respond. Fingers crossed

[Lucas]

I reached out to Mick Wall on this issue.

Probably be ignored, but maybe he will respond. Fingers crossed

 

awesome

 

I'm all ears

[Lucas]

I always thought the "official" version for Clive's departure was that he didn't want to spend so much time on the road.

 

It sure doesn't seem that way if Clive went on to say:

 

"I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that."

[Disembodied Spirit]

I always thought the "official" version for Clive's departure was that he didn't want to spend so much time on the road.

 

It sure doesn't seem that way if Clive went on to say:

 

"I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that."

My personal thinking is, 2 views, Clive went home to be with his family.

I believe Steve Harris and Nicko clicked more (in Steve's mind) then with Clive

Once Clive returned I bet Steve was comparing him to Nicko in some way.

I also do agree, Clive's mind/ heart may not have been fully with the band which is completely understandable.

I have always thought it was a little of both ..just IMO

[x1yyz]

I always thought the "official" version for Clive's departure was that he didn't want to spend so much time on the road.

 

It sure doesn't seem that way if Clive went on to say:

 

"I think if you’re going to sack someone, sacking them after they’ve just lost their father is not the best time to do it... I guess they had their reasons. So that was that."

 

:(

[Rod in Toronto]

I always thought that while Clive´s drumming was a lot tighter than Nicko´s, the chemistry between Nicko and Steve was out of this world. I guess Steve realized that when Clive was absent. Either way, that was a weid move on Maiden´s part.

 

It´s an over-reach on my part, but It seems they learned their lesson when they decided to keep Jannick when Adrian returned.

[Disembodied Spirit]

Off topic story, tonight my 2 lovely dogs, Desmond and Rudy, both Dachshunds were staring at me.

Of course with their sad eyes, and it was past dinner time....I got up from watching TV,

and as I am fixing both of their bowls, somewhere from the depths of my brain come the song lyrics for no reason...

I look down at my dogs and I sing..............

Without a still suit you would fry, On the sands so hot and dry,In a world called Arrakis

It is a land that's rich in spice, The sand riders and the mice, That they call the 'Muad'Dib'

He is the Kwizatz Haderach, He is born of Caladan, And will take the Gom Jabbar

He has the power to foresee,Or to look into the past, He is the ruler of the sttttaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrsssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They were frightened for a few seconds but then food.....I knew I still had IT

[x1yyz]

Off topic story, tonight my 2 lovely dogs, Desmond and Rudy, both Dachshunds were staring at me.

Of course with their sad eyes, and it was past dinner time....I got up from watching TV,

and as I am fixing both of their bowls, somewhere from the depths of my brain come the song lyrics for no reason...

I look down at my dogs and I sing..............

Without a still suit you would fry, On the sands so hot and dry,In a world called Arrakis

It is a land that's rich in spice, The sand riders and the mice, That they call the 'Muad'Dib'

He is the Kwizatz Haderach, He is born of Caladan, And will take the Gom Jabbar

He has the power to foresee,Or to look into the past, He is the ruler of the sttttaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrsssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They were frightened for a few seconds but then food.....I knew I still had IT

 

:D

[Digital Dad]

I always thought that while Clive´s drumming was a lot tighter than Nicko´s, the chemistry between Nicko and Steve was out of this world. I guess Steve realized that when Clive was absent. Either way, that was a weid move on Maiden´s part.

 

It´s an over-reach on my part, but It seems they learned their lesson when they decided to keep Jannick when Adrian returned.

 

H and Bruce both wanted to keep the 3 guitar lineup when they came back.