[naturalsciences101]

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Apr 4 2009, 12:46 PM)

I never heard the term corporate rock in the 70s. We did have AOR album-oriented-rock which was just to differentiate these bands from bands that were intentionally trying to write hit singles. Just because many aor bands became huge doesn;t make it corporate rock imo.

A band like The Who were an anomaly then. Or, maybe it's that both definitions applied to them at different times. Because, they were most certainly a singles band in the 60's, and then, beginnng with 'Tommy', they became an AOR group. But, during the early 70's, they kinda were both.

 

 

 

[JimboGames]

"Corporate Rock" to me should actually be labeled "Corporate Pop."

 

Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers come to mind. Yay Disney! (sarcasm)

[Mandalorian Hunter]

QUOTE (PuppetKing2112 @ Apr 3 2009, 12:50 AM)

Kings of Leon have always been awful though.

I think they're a case of a band in the right place at the right time for a lot of people over here. And Because of the Times is a genuinely good album.

[Ancient Ways]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 4 2009, 07:26 PM)

QUOTE (Ancient Ways @ Apr 4 2009, 12:46 PM) I never heard the term corporate rock in the 70s. We did have AOR album-oriented-rock which was just to differentiate these bands from bands that were intentionally trying to write hit singles.  Just because many aor bands became huge doesn;t make it corporate rock imo. A band like The Who were an anomaly then. Or, maybe it's that both definitions applied to them at different times. Because, they were most certainly a singles band in the 60's, and then, beginnng with 'Tommy', they became an AOR group. But, during the early 70's, they kinda were both. that's fair and expected since they had their start when singles were the name of the game. I'm talking more about bands that got big in the seventies (like Rush, for example - definitely an aor band).

[Xanadu93]

QUOTE (JimboGames @ Apr 4 2009, 07:46 PM)

"Corporate Rock" to me should actually be labeled "Corporate Pop." Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers come to mind. Yay Disney! (sarcasm)

Miley Montana

 

Jonas Brothers

[MCM]

QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ Apr 5 2009, 01:56 PM)

QUOTE (JimboGames @ Apr 4 2009, 07:46 PM) "Corporate Rock" to me should actually be labeled "Corporate Pop." Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers come to mind. Yay Disney! (sarcasm) Miley Montana   Jonas Brothers I think even the term "Corporate Rock" with all it's negative connotations is too good for those two.

[Xanadu93]

QUOTE (MCM @ Apr 5 2009, 08:04 PM)

QUOTE (Xanadu93 @ Apr 5 2009, 01:56 PM) QUOTE (JimboGames @ Apr 4 2009, 07:46 PM) "Corporate Rock" to me should actually be labeled "Corporate Pop." Hannah Montana and the Jonas Brothers come to mind. Yay Disney! (sarcasm) Miley Montana   Jonas Brothers I think even the term "Corporate Rock" with all it's negative connotations is too good for those two. times infinity. How can teen pop "rock"?

[lerxt1990]

I call it "Lowest Common Denominator Roc" - music with no novelty, no inspiration, with boring lyrics, boring music... garbage.

[naturalsciences101]

MCM, are you out there? Calling MCM, one and all. I have a Styx-relevant question and you seem to be the resident expert on all matters pertaining to this Chicago-based quintet.

 

Right now, I'm delving into the band's earliest material. The so-called 'Wooden Nickel' years. Maybe, while yer at it, you can 'splain to me what this term is meant to denote.

 

My local library has Styx's first four releases on old tattered discs. Prior to this day, the extent of my Styx interest and knowledge was curtailed only to The Grand Illusion and Styx Greatest Hits 1 & 2.

 

But, since the band is known to have some Prog-Rock roots, I suddenly grew interested in hearing some of the band's earliest efforts. I just threw a couple discs into my multi-disc changer and the strangest thing occured...

 

All of it sounded foreign. Not only was the vast majority of songs unfamiliar to me, but even the voices weren't those of the Styx-men that I knew and dug...Who they heck is singing on these songs?

 

These discs, and their jewel cases, are all beat up, so I can't really make out much of what's written here...the personnel, the writing and publishing credits. So, I go on the net and find all kinds of strange names as the authors for all these many Styx pieces.

 

Maybe you can be a swell person and give me a brief run-down on who exactly was in the band on the first four efforts, who did the majority of the writing, and who is it that's singing these tracks which aren't Dennis DeYoung? Help.

 

John Ryan, Mark Gaddis, Paul Frank, Lewis Mark, George Clinton (Parliament)? How about Curulewski, Brandle, Lofrano, R. Randall, B. Charles? These are all names coming from the first five efforts.

 

I figured out that Tommy Shaw stepped in to replace this John Curulewski fella. But, why so much outside help in the writing dept. in that small frame of time, during those fabled Wooden Nickel years? And, were some of these names part of the band's personnel at some small interval? Tell a fella. Shout it out loud.

 

 

[MCM]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 17 2009, 06:44 PM)

MCM, are you out there?  Calling MCM, one and all.  I have a Styx-relevant question and you seem to be the resident expert on all matters pertaining to this Chicago-based quintet. Right now, I'm delving into the band's earliest material.  The so-called 'Wooden Nickel' years.  Maybe, while yer at it, you can 'splain to me what this term is meant to denote.  My local library has Styx's first four releases on old tattered discs.  Prior to this day, the extent of my Styx interest and knowledge was curtailed only to The Grand Illusion and Styx Greatest Hits 1 & 2.  But, since the band is known to have some Prog-Rock roots, I suddenly grew interested in hearing some of the band's earliest efforts.  I just threw a couple discs into my multi-disc changer and the strangest thing occured... All of it sounded foreign.  Not only was the vast majority of songs unfamiliar to me, but even the voices weren't those of the Styx-men that I knew and dug...Who they heck is singing on these songs?  These discs, and their jewel cases, are all beat up, so I can't really make out much of what's written here...the personnel, the writing and publishing credits.  So, I go on the net and find all kinds of strange names as the authors for all these many Styx pieces.  Maybe you can be a swell person and give me a brief run-down on who exactly was in the band on the first four efforts, who did the majority of the writing, and who is it that's singing these tracks which aren't Dennis DeYoung?  Help. John Ryan, Mark Gaddis, Paul Frank, Lewis Mark, George Clinton (Parliament)?  How about Curulewski, Brandle, Lofrano, R. Randall, B. Charles?  These are all names coming from the first five efforts. I figured out that Tommy Shaw stepped in to replace this  John Curulewski fella.  But, why so much outside help in the writing dept. in that small frame of time, during those fabled Wooden Nickel years?  And, were some of these names part of the band's personnel at some small interval?  Tell a fella.  Shout it out loud.

Here I is, I took a two day internet break.. tired of looking at job postings and emailing resumes.. Far from a Styx expert, but I can answer some of these questions..

 

They are called the Wooden Nickel years as that is the label they were on at the time. I've always felt that they were separated from the rest of the catalog that way due to the label change and most importantly the difference in the direction of their music. If you listen to the WN albums then the A&M albums you can really feel a difference in the direction of their music. They found their formula with Lady and built on that. In later years you can find precious little from those years in a set list. Aside from Lady you won't hear this stuff on the radio either. I almost wrecked my car a few months ago when I heard Man of Miracles on the local radio station.

 

 

John Curulewski was one of the original members (some say, some don't, without looking it up I'm not sure when he joined up with DDY and the Panozzo brothers, but he was part of the band before JY when they were know as the Tradewinds then TW4) he played with them up until Equinox which was their first A&M release. Right before the tour in support of that album he left the band and was quickly replaced with Tommy Shaw. John later passed away, I can't remember the year without looking it up. If you are hearing a voice that isn't DDY it may be John's, I believe he did some of the vocals on those early albums. JY can also be heard on these, he has done the vocals on many songs over the years and his voice is quite different from DDY. In later years you will know who's singing by the writing credits, if you wrote it, you got to sing it.

 

Those first albums have such varied writing credits as the lablel dictated and/or suggested the songs they recorded, I think, (If I remember correctly some of them may have even been covers) I think they may have been given some of the material by the label to record. In later years after their switch to A&M you would be hard pressed to find any writing credits outside the band. I've never looked into the writing credits on those, so as to who they were or where they came from I don't know, I'd be interested to know about the George Clinton thing..

 

You mention Grand Illusion as your reference to Styx which is the album usually referred to as their biggest and best. Many people think it was their greatest achievement and the pinnacle of their career. Some people look at Paradise Theatre as that landmark. GI is a better album than PT,(IMO) I'm partial to Pieces of Eight and although I love Cornerstone, and despite the success of PT that followed, I view Cornerstone as the beginning of the end. (again IMO)

 

Some good sources for info are

 

www.StyxCollector.com

 

and

 

The Grand Delusion by Sterling Whitaker - if you read, this can be found on Amazon (and not to be confused with Chuck's book The Grand Illusion) Sterling's book is a good read, it's a pretty good history of the band built on his and other's interviews.

 

There - that's a lot of words, but as I said before I can't help talking about Styx, just can't shut me up... I've been preaching the gospel of Styx for over 30 years and rarely find anyone who will listen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[naturalsciences101]

You're probably correct about some of these tunes with the strange authorship. They're probably covers. And, those that are not might be songs specifically written for Styx by sessions musicians...Well, that's really the only two other options, right? lol.

 

I thought I was familiar with the voice of J.Y. from songs like Miss America and Snowblind, but I can't figure out if it's him here on these others songs. I'm listening to a track called Southern Woman and I have no idea if it's him or Curulewski.

 

I can see why they only had a limited following in the early years. A lot of this stuff is pretty disjointed. Sounds like they're searching for an identity through a bunch of trial and error. They stumbled upon the formula of 'Lady' fairly early, I'm surprised they didn't keep going back to that. But, the patented Styx vocal harmony thing was there pretty much from the beginning.

 

I'm listening to a song called 'Best Thing' from the first album and it's got many of the elements of Classic Styx. 'Earl of Roseland' from Styx II, it sounds like they want to be an American 'Queen'. Which is what I've always thought of them as anyway. Some pretty good stuff here. Will take me some time to get used to...The early Journey discog will be next.

 

 

 

[rotting]

I define corporate rock anything metallica related.

[MCM]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 18 2009, 01:39 PM)

You're probably correct about some of these tunes with the strange authorship. They're probably covers. And, those that are not might be songs specifically written for Styx by sessions musicians...Well, that's really the only two other options, right? lol. I thought I was familiar with the voice of J.Y. from songs like Miss America and Snowblind, but I can't figure out if it's him here on these others songs. I'm listening to a track called Southern Woman and I have no idea if it's him or Curulewski. I can see why they only had a limited following in the early years. A lot of this stuff is pretty disjointed. Sounds like they're searching for an identity through a bunch of trial and error. They stumbled upon the formula of 'Lady' fairly early, I'm surprised they didn't keep going back to that. But, the patented Styx vocal harmony thing was there pretty much from the beginning. I'm listening to a song called 'Best Thing' from the first album and it's got many of the elements of Classic Styx. 'Earl of Roseland' from Styx II, it sounds like they want to be an American 'Queen'. Which is what I've always thought of them as anyway. Some pretty good stuff here. Will take me some time to get used to...The early Journey discog will be next.

Oddly enough I just had time this morning to read the most recent DDY interview on styxcollector.com and towards the end of it DDY gets into those early years and the presence of the additional writers and some of the vocals on those albums. It's really long, but very interesting.

 

 

If you're going to take on Journey next you'd better get a chalkboard and take a few days off of work, you're going to need some time and a flow chart to keep track of the players on that one, they've got a "former band member" list longer than anyone else I can think of.

 

 

[naturalsciences101]

What goes into the making of the patented Styx vocal harmony? Anyone know? MCM? Is it DDY's voice layered a thousand times, or do other voices have a part in it? Sounds good regardless of how they achieve the trick. I just heard Styx after hearing The Bee Gees a little earlier. Some of those 70's acts really put some serious time and effort and real passion into acheiving a distinctive, original sound for themselves. But, that type of goal for the modern musician is just deader than a...it's deader than a...well, it's 'kaput' is what I'm trying to say.

 

 

[MCM]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 30 2009, 07:41 PM)

What goes into the making of the patented Styx vocal harmony? Anyone know? MCM? Is it DDY's voice layered a thousand times, or do other voices have a part in it? Sounds good regardless of how they achieve the trick. I just heard Styx after hearing The Bee Gees a little earlier. Some of those 70's acts really put some serious time and effort and real passion into acheiving a distinctive, original sound for themselves. But, that type of goal for the modern musician is just deader than a...it's deader than a...well, it's 'kaput' is what I'm trying to say.

I don't know if and how much Dennis layered the vocals on those records. I do know that if you listen closely and you know the other voices well enough you can pick them out in the background. I think its most notable on Cornerstone whichever one of them has the lead (DDY or TS or JY) it's backed by the other two and you can clearly hear the other two vocals and identify them. As much as I prefer some of the others over DDY, I've got to give him credit for that.. he was/is a master at creating that sound that made them Styx. You don't hear it on Brave New World and you certainly don't hear it on Cyclorama.

[naturalsciences101]

I wish I could cite something specifically here...but when I was listening to that stuff from the first four Styx discs (say that fast), I did come across a few instances of the classic Styx harmony sound, even back during the start of the Wooden Nickel years. Which means that somewhat of a formula was already established and in place.

 

What it is - is probably several different octaves of DDY's voice, all meshed and intertwined to form a chord, with maybe a track or two dedicated to the other guys....Like, with The Bee Gees, we were lead to believe that what we were hearing was a harmony formed by the three Bros. singing and forming a three-part deal...when, in fact, it was mostly Barry that we were hearing.

 

 

[MCM]

QUOTE (naturalsciences101 @ Apr 30 2009, 09:35 PM)

I wish I could cite something specifically here...but when I was listening to that stuff from the first four Styx discs (say that fast), I did come across a few instances of the classic Styx harmony sound, even back during the start of the Wooden Nickel years. Which means that somewhat of a formula was already established and in place. What it is - is probably several different octaves of DDY's voice, all meshed and intertwined to form a chord, with maybe a track or two dedicated to the other guys....Like, with The Bee Gees, we were lead to believe that what we were hearing was a harmony formed by the three Bros. singing and forming a three-part deal...when, in fact, it was mostly Barry that we were hearing.

That's the problem with those first four albums, you've got Styx but not really, or at least not as DDY envisioned them to be later. I don't think that DDY had the control on those four albums that he had later when they were with A&M. The vison for that sound was his which is why we don't have it on the last three studio records.

 

Those vocals that you are hearing would probably have been recorded in a different way than what we heard on the next group of albums Equinox thru Kilroy when Dennis was the mastermind.

 

I believe that John C was a good singer and contributed to a lot of those vocals but we really don't have that much of his later work with DDY in control to know if we're hearing him or not on those earlier mixes, I can't remember without looking if he even had lead vocal on anything on Equinox.