Bass Question

[apetersvt]

I'm a not-so-good guitar player and have thought about getting a relatively cheap bass (such as a Squire Jazz) to mess around with.

 

Could I use my guitar amp for the bass, or should I get a bass amp? What is the differences between a guitar amp and a bass amp?

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

You can run a bass through a guitar amp just fine. Basically the difference between guitar and bass amps are the frequencies they cater to. For example it is common practice to run a guitar through a Fender Bassman amp because that particular amp sounds great for guitars, especially bluesy guitars. Les Claypool used to play through an ADA guitar amp because of the upper mid range bump it gave his bass. A guitar amp, especially with smaller speakers, will not output the lower frequencies that a bass really needs, but you can run either instrument through either type of amp. It won't do any damage and may give you a tone you like.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (apetersvt @ Mar 11 2009, 03:51 PM)

I'm a not-so-good guitar player and have thought about getting a relatively cheap bass (such as a Squire Jazz) to mess around with.

I just bought a Squire Jazz Bass yesterday for $180USD. Bought it on whim after playing it for a bit in the store. I've been wanting a bass to goof off on for a while now, and it fit the bill. I had to set it up when I got it home, but it plays pretty good for a cheap Chinese-made bass. Good enough for my non-bass-playing ass.

 

Cyg, if I wanted to record the bass into the computer, any harm in feeding it straight into a tube mic preamp, then into the sound card?

[Grand Designs]

QUOTE (apetersvt @ Mar 11 2009, 02:51 PM)

I'm a not-so-good guitar player and have thought about getting a relatively cheap bass (such as a Squire Jazz) to mess around with. Could I use my guitar amp for the bass, or should I get a bass amp? What is the differences between a guitar amp and a bass amp?

If you want a bass amp that is affordable, AND good, get an Ampeg BA-115. They're a 100 watt combo amp with a built-in 15'' driver. My favorite feature of this line of amps is the 5 position style selector.

 

The style selector basically changes the tonal character of the amp. Seeing that you have a jazz bass, my favorite thing to do is to run the bass, mid, and treble on the amp all in the same position (style selector on 4). Then take the jazz bass and turn the bridge pickup all the way down, so that it's all neck pickup you are hearing.

 

You'll get a real hollowed-out, classic Fender sound by doing that. Some say that Geddy runs his neck and bridge pickups turned up all the way, but my ears tell me that he uses mostly neck pickup with MAYBE a little bridge pickup added.

 

Hopefully this will give you some sort of idea as to which bass amp will suit you.......that is if you plan on getting one soon!

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 11 2009, 04:16 PM)

Cyg, if I wanted to record the bass into the computer, any harm in feeding it straight into a tube mic preamp, then into the sound card?

That's what I do! As long as the sound card can take a line signal you are good. I have a little PreSonus TubePre that I have been using for a bass DI for a project I have been doing in Sacramento. The composer loves the tone. Just my Geddy into the pre into his sound card. The cool thing about this is if you send to an aux then you can put an amp plugin of some sort, like Amplitube's Ampeg SVX and mix the signals together for some serious tone. The version of the Pass that I did with Pete was my Geddy into the PreSonus and then routed out to the Ampeg SVX plug.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 03:46 PM)

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 11 2009, 04:16 PM) Cyg, if I wanted to record the bass into the computer, any harm in feeding it straight into a tube mic preamp, then into the sound card? That's what I do! As long as the sound card can take a line signal you are good. I have a little PreSonus TubePre that I have been using for a bass DI for a project I have been doing in Sacramento. The composer loves the tone. Just my Geddy into the pre into his sound card. The cool thing about this is if you send to an aux then you can put an amp plugin of some sort, like Amplitube's Ampeg SVX and mix the signals together for some serious tone. The version of the Pass that I did with Pete was my Geddy into the PreSonus and then routed out to the Ampeg SVX plug. I have the same exact preamp. Two of them, in fact.   I've been experimenting with double micing my guitar cab, and so far I'm liking the results. Two mics (a Sennheiser e906 and an AKG 220), each into their own TubePre, then into the sound card. And yes, once I get the mic positions exactly how I want them, the first thing I'm recording are those "La Villa" solos.   Cool about using the bass with that pre, too.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (Grand Designs @ Mar 11 2009, 06:48 PM)

QUOTE (apetersvt @ Mar 11 2009, 02:51 PM) I'm a not-so-good guitar player and have thought about getting a relatively cheap bass (such as a Squire Jazz) to mess around with. Could I use my guitar amp for the bass, or should I get a bass amp?  What is the differences between a guitar amp and a bass amp? If you want a bass amp that is affordable, AND good, get an Ampeg BA-115. They're a 100 watt combo amp with a built-in 15'' driver. My favorite feature of this line of amps is the 5 position style selector.   The style selector basically changes the tonal character of the amp. Seeing that you have a jazz bass, my favorite thing to do is to run the bass, mid, and treble on the amp all in the same position (style selector on 4). Then take the jazz bass and turn the bridge pickup all the way down, so that it's all neck pickup you are hearing.   You'll get a real hollowed-out, classic Fender sound by doing that. Some say that Geddy runs his neck and bridge pickups turned up all the way, but my ears tell me that he uses mostly neck pickup with MAYBE a little bridge pickup added.   Hopefully this will give you some sort of idea as to which bass amp will suit you.......that is if you plan on getting one soon! I have a Geddy model and I can attest that the sound I get with both pickups fully on (all knobs fully open, including the tone knob) is almost exactly like what Geddy has. Add a little amp emulated top with some bite and you are there.   Also the guy who started the thread may be more interested in a smaller bass amp than a 100 watt Ampeg. I have an equivalent amp, but for a guy starting out a $100 Fender will get the job done.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 12 2009, 11:53 AM)

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 03:46 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 11 2009, 04:16 PM) Cyg, if I wanted to record the bass into the computer, any harm in feeding it straight into a tube mic preamp, then into the sound card? That's what I do! As long as the sound card can take a line signal you are good. I have a little PreSonus TubePre that I have been using for a bass DI for a project I have been doing in Sacramento. The composer loves the tone. Just my Geddy into the pre into his sound card. The cool thing about this is if you send to an aux then you can put an amp plugin of some sort, like Amplitube's Ampeg SVX and mix the signals together for some serious tone. The version of the Pass that I did with Pete was my Geddy into the PreSonus and then routed out to the Ampeg SVX plug. I have the same exact preamp. Two of them, in fact.   I've been experimenting with double micing my guitar cab, and so far I'm liking the results. Two mics (a Sennheiser e906 and an AKG 220), each into their own TubePre, then into the sound card. And yes, once I get the mic positions exactly how I want them, the first thing I'm recording are those "La Villa" solos.   Cool about using the bass with that pre, too. Yeah, they are pretty good sounding little boxes for what they are. I got mine for $10!   I just got two of their two channel models for $100 per. Someone was going to sell them to Guitar Center then my GC sent him to me instead. Keeps him from doing paper work and police hold.   I mean, compared to my expensive SSL mic pres they are a bargain, but not "high end" as some gear guys would have you believe. But to my ears they sound pretty good.

[1-0-0-1-0-0-1]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 03:57 PM)

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 12 2009, 11:53 AM) QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 03:46 PM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Mar 11 2009, 04:16 PM) Cyg, if I wanted to record the bass into the computer, any harm in feeding it straight into a tube mic preamp, then into the sound card? That's what I do! As long as the sound card can take a line signal you are good. I have a little PreSonus TubePre that I have been using for a bass DI for a project I have been doing in Sacramento. The composer loves the tone. Just my Geddy into the pre into his sound card. The cool thing about this is if you send to an aux then you can put an amp plugin of some sort, like Amplitube's Ampeg SVX and mix the signals together for some serious tone. The version of the Pass that I did with Pete was my Geddy into the PreSonus and then routed out to the Ampeg SVX plug. I have the same exact preamp. Two of them, in fact.   I've been experimenting with double micing my guitar cab, and so far I'm liking the results. Two mics (a Sennheiser e906 and an AKG 220), each into their own TubePre, then into the sound card. And yes, once I get the mic positions exactly how I want them, the first thing I'm recording are those "La Villa" solos.   Cool about using the bass with that pre, too. Yeah, they are pretty good sounding little boxes for what they are. I got mine for $10!   I just got two of their two channel models for $100 per. Someone was going to sell them to Guitar Center then my GC sent him to me instead. Keeps him from doing paper work and police hold.   I mean, compared to my expensive SSL mic pres they are a bargain, but not "high end" as some gear guys would have you believe. But to my ears they sound pretty good. When recording your bass with the TubePre, how hard to you drive the pre? Do you try to get that bite from driving the tube, or do you let a plugin do that?

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I don't really drive the tube in the pre, I keep the drive down so I can get a clean direct signal, but boost the gain until the knob is around 9 o'clock on the dial (if that much). I then adjust the input of the card's input. That way a get a little warmth and not too much top end.

 

For the project you and I have been working on I used a Millennia STT-1, which is very expensive and I no longer have access to (though we may get one at my office), which is why I may want to recut the bass for that, or just punch in a solo bit with the PreSonus. Either way, both signals will get some Amplitube love, and then some.

[Grand Designs]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 02:53 PM)

QUOTE (Grand Designs @ Mar 11 2009, 06:48 PM) QUOTE (apetersvt @ Mar 11 2009, 02:51 PM) I'm a not-so-good guitar player and have thought about getting a relatively cheap bass (such as a Squire Jazz) to mess around with. Could I use my guitar amp for the bass, or should I get a bass amp?  What is the differences between a guitar amp and a bass amp? If you want a bass amp that is affordable, AND good, get an Ampeg BA-115. They're a 100 watt combo amp with a built-in 15'' driver. My favorite feature of this line of amps is the 5 position style selector.   The style selector basically changes the tonal character of the amp. Seeing that you have a jazz bass, my favorite thing to do is to run the bass, mid, and treble on the amp all in the same position (style selector on 4). Then take the jazz bass and turn the bridge pickup all the way down, so that it's all neck pickup you are hearing.   You'll get a real hollowed-out, classic Fender sound by doing that. Some say that Geddy runs his neck and bridge pickups turned up all the way, but my ears tell me that he uses mostly neck pickup with MAYBE a little bridge pickup added.   Hopefully this will give you some sort of idea as to which bass amp will suit you.......that is if you plan on getting one soon! I have a Geddy model and I can attest that the sound I get with both pickups fully on (all knobs fully open, including the tone knob) is almost exactly like what Geddy has. Add a little amp emulated top with some bite and you are there.   Also the guy who started the thread may be more interested in a smaller bass amp than a 100 watt Ampeg. I have an equivalent amp, but for a guy starting out a $100 Fender will get the job done. Yeah, I agree with you about the Fender amp. I was just suggesting the Ampeg because it's still a good amp to play through as you progress. He would have it around a little longer, you know?   As for the jazz bass sound, I used to have a Geddy Lee, but I ended up selling it about 5 months after getting my 4003 that I searched and searched for. I seemed to be able to replicate Geddy's R30/Snakes & Arrows Live sound by just using the neck pickup.   On that DVD/CD, it just seems to me that his neck pickup is the dominant factor in his sound. But that's just me.   Back to the Geddy Lee bass, I had bad luck with it. All that would come through my amp was the awful clanking noises of the strings hitting the frets, mostly occuring when using my SansAmp Bass Driver DI set on the "fat tube" setting. Plus, the neck would periodically bow on my; thus, making my action really stiff.   Of course, at that time I was playing that bass through just a single Ampeg 1 by 15 (BA-115 to be exact) using only the SansAmp DI (which I think is a HIGHLY overated unit just used by itself. After I got my Rick, I sold the Geddy Lee in order to get another Ampeg, that way I could use the RICK-O-SOUND function. Then I got a SansAmp RPM model, which can perform the distortion functions that the Bass Driver can't. I still use the DI in conjunction with the RPM (my description of how the Bass Driver functions with the RPM is located in the "Tell Us About Your Rig" if you'd be interested).   Anyways, the moral of that story is that I've never got to play the Geddy Lee, or any other jazz bass, bi-amped with the RPM/DI combination as the preamp. If I do get another Fender, I'll definitely get the American 75' jazz bass. Those are awesome! I played one at Guitar Center.

Edited March 12, 2009 by Grand Designs

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

Well, Geddy's signal path is split at least 3 ways before getting to the FOH. The extra low end comes from his processing. What I hear mostly is the "snappy" (crappy) distorted upper mid range. Ever since he's gone to the Di only system it's been like that. Plus their stage volume is lop sided because of it too. It's not smooth like the Moving Pictures recordings of his J.

 

I am not a fan of the SansAmp by itself either. I have only used it in conjunction with real amps, and never for bass. If the RPM is what gives Geddy that crappy distortion then I am staying away from that too. Bass->Amp/preamp is all you need for a good tone.

 

I also have a Ric, but rarely use it. Not quite as versatile as a Fender. I actually prefer my Mexican J to the Geddy. Never buy the most expensive Fender. It's a Fender!

 

 

[Grand Designs]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Mar 12 2009, 06:35 PM)

Well, Geddy's signal path is split at least 3 ways before getting to the FOH. The extra low end comes from his processing. What I hear mostly is the "snappy" (crappy) distorted upper mid range. Ever since he's gone to the Di only system it's been like that. Plus their stage volume is lop sided because of it too. It's not smooth like the Moving Pictures recordings of his J. I am not a fan of the SansAmp by itself either. I have only used it in conjunction with real amps, and never for bass. If the RPM is what gives Geddy that crappy distortion then I am staying away from that too. Bass->Amp/preamp is all you need for a good tone. I also have a Ric, but rarely use it. Not quite as versatile as a Fender. I actually prefer my Mexican J to the Geddy. Never buy the most expensive Fender. It's a Fender!

I hear what you're saying about Geddy using the DI only setup. Even I don't quite understand why he perfers it, but I do like those heavy distortion sounds that he gets from it. I would like to see him go back to real cabinets to get that Moving Pictures smooth jass bass sound.

 

As for my experience with the RPM, the key is to set the bass, mid, mid-shift, and treble according to the manuel's "overdriven bass" setting. Then set the drive to a position that you find desireable (I set my drive between 1 and 2 o' clock).

 

Once that's all set, PLAY AROUND WITH THE BLEND KNOB. I usually have mine set between 1 and 2 o' clock just like my drive knob. This blends the distortion level with your amp's natural sound. Think of the blend as a distortion/preamp intensity volume. I then run all of this into the Bass Driver DI to clean up the nasty overtones and fret noise, and give it a little bit of compression.

 

The DI's settings are everything at 12 o' clock, except the drive. I set it at zero. I'll then play with the presence knob until I find the right range of clarity that doesn't comprimise the filtering action that I use it for in the first place. I also set the line switch to output.

 

The manuel likes to suggest that you set the blend at 100%, but I find that it's just way too staticy and noisy. Plus it makes the bass's action not feel as tigh and controlable. Having a second amp available to run clean for your lows will make the RPM's distortion sound better as well. The two amps will harmonize off of eachother. This is like what you were saying in regards to Geddy splitting his signal 3 ways.

 

This setup with my Ricks has suited me well so far. I can get pretty damn close to that Exit...Stage Left kind of sound. With the mids scooped out on the distorted end, I can get those nice "crackly" effects that Ricks put out. I do like to run the Rick in mono and play with the RPM set for fuzz sounds. I haven't yet played a Fender Jazz through this. I haven't really had it that long.

 

That's a little bit about the RPM from my perspective. You would just have to plug in and play through my setup to fully understand it. Either you'd love it, or hate it.