PariahDog

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 3 2010, 01:28 PM)There are a lot of examples of progressive hard rock prior to and including 1975: Amon Duul II High Tide Quiet Sun King Crimson Hawkwind Semiramis Ash Ra Tempel Atomic Rooster T2 Museo Rosenbach Uriah Heep There are more. Highly original? Yes. Did it better than anyone? Yes. Popular enough that they were highly influential? Yes. Groundbreaking? Gotta say no. I mentioned King Crimson, and know of Hawkwind and Uriah Heep. But, honestly, I have never heard of the others on your list, though I look forward to checking them out. But I would guess that Rush has probably sold more records than all of these bands combined. So, yes, others were doing progressive heavy rock around the same time. My point was that Rush was the leading progressive hard rock band of the 70s and 80s. And I think they had much more influence over later bands and musicians than King Crimson, Uriah Heep, etc. BTW, how do you define groundbreaking in this context? The first band chronologically to play a 7/8 riff on a Les Paul through a Marshall? I do think Rush broke new ground, because they spearheaded heavy prog through the 70s and had the most success with it.

QUOTE (rushgoober @ Jun 3 2010, 11:42 AM)I agree with many that Rush aren't particularly groundbreaking. The first album had a heavy Zep influence, their prog period echoed prog that was already around. Their prog/pop period, snyth heavy power pop, grunge, back to basic hard rock, etc. - they take existing genres and modify them to their own sound. What they DO have going is they make the genres so much their own and do it so uniquely and so often better than everyone else that it seems groundbreaking, but it's not - they just do what they do in a very original way. QUOTE (trenken @ Jun 3 2010, 10:37 AM)Huh????? You have any idea how many bands were doing prog music in the 60s and early 70s, before Rush even came out? To me Rush was one of the best at it, but they sure as hell had nothing to do with the development of it. C'mon, guys, give Rush little bit of credit! Rush basically pioneered PROGRESSIVE HARD ROCK. That is, using progressive elements (odd time signatures, synthesizers, extended song forms, instrumental prowess) within the context of hard rock/heavy rock. Of course Yes, Genesis, ELP and others were doing progressive rock first, but they all had a mostly keyboard-based, "symphonic" or "art rock" sound. Rush took these ideas and melded them with the Zeppelin-influenced heavy blues-rock sound all the way back on FBN. They refined this approach through the 70s, and became arguably the best prog hard rock band by the time of PeW and MP. Then, bands like Iron Maiden and Metallica picked up these prog influences from Rush and went on to do the prog metal thing. But I think it's pretty clear that Rush was one of the first to do progressive heavy rock. King Crimson was also doing heavy prog in the early 70s, but who else, really? And Rush was able to make it more commercialy accessible, especially by the time of PeW and MP. Jeez, how quickly we forget...

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ Jun 3 2010, 12:09 AM) IMO, if the music is twisted and disjointed, doesn't it make sense that the vocal part might have to be, too? It's possible Geddy wrote the vocal part that way to match the edgy mood of the song instead of trying to make it catchy. Besides, I imagine it'd be pretty tough to write a lovely and singable melody over such a weird piece of music. Yeah, I don't know what you could possibly sing over that pre-chorus ("caravan thunders onward") section that would flow any better. That riff is seriously twisted, and as it is I can't see how Geddy will pull off singing and playing that part live.

QUOTE (RUSHHEAD666 @ Jun 2 2010, 03:13 AM) QUOTE (softfilter @ Jun 2 2010, 12:24 AM) QUOTE (analog guy @ Jun 2 2010, 01:14 AM) Second half of Caravan is especially phenomenal. Do I detect a hint or two of La Villa in there? I hear some Spindrift. I totally agree! Spindrift Caravan. I'm jumping on this "Bandwagon." Hmm, I don't really hear Spindrift in Caravan. Which part? Riff-wise, I do hear a little bit of Stick It Out, La Villa, and Freeze.

Interesting how some of the bashers started off liking these songs, but are now retreating into familiar territory.

QUOTE (SpiritOfRush @ Jun 1 2010, 12:38 PM) Is it just me or is this band's sound and their albums getting progressively worse?...Guess that's what they mean by prog rock. S&A sounded worse than VT?

Some great reactions here, both positive and negative, and two things stand out for me about the complaints. First, regarding the musical "style" of these tracks. It's very interesting after S&A, which some derided as "lazy," "slow," or even "adult contemporary," now we seem to have swung in the opposite direction. Now, it's ironic to hear folks complain about the new stuff being "strange sounding," "grungy," "too heavy," and not "catchy" or "sing-along." Personally, I think it's great that Rush has pushed themselves and us with this new material. I can understand some folks still wishing the new stuff sounded more like PeW or MP, but the bottom line is that this is most definitely Rush 2010, not Rush 1980. Second, regarding the perceived "awkward" or "shoehorned" lyrics for Caravan. I think this is simply the result of trying to sing over a FREAKING INSANE Lifeson guitar riff. I mean, that verse riff is just sick and sounds to me like some mutant offspring of Stick it Out and La Villa. Of course trying to sing and phrase lyrics over this riff is going to be challenging. The other option would have been to simplify the riff during the singing, but I'm glad they went with the crazy riff rather than dumbing it down. I think the main issue is that both tunes are very musically dense and intense. There is a lot going on, packed into just five or six mintues. I do think that we'll get some more expansive or "relaxed" tunes on the album to balance these out. But so far, I am really glad that Rush is challenging themseves and us with their new music.

Wow, reading the lyrics to Caravan, Clockwork Angels really could turn out to be a "story" album in the style of 2112. On a road lit only by fire Going where I want, instead of where I should I peer out at the passing shadows Carried through the night into the city Where a young man has a chance of making good A chance to break from the past The caravan thunders onward Stars winking through the canvas hood On my way at last Unless, this is supposed to be allegorical? Could CA be a 2112-type story about a "lone hero" who lives in some society that believes in the clockwork universe, and then comes to question his beliefs? The BU2B lyrics don't read as much as a story, but they could be the main character expressing his changing views later in the story. If CA does turn out to be a real "story" album, I think it's going to be mind-blowing!

QUOTE (Fridge @ Jun 1 2010, 01:45 AM) Ok, I've just listened to both of these on Youtube about three or four times. Caravan is great. There, I've said it. First thing that strikes me is that the guitar sound is much better than S&A and is like a more modern take on his "classic" tone, with just enough chorus in it to give that slightly "wide" effect that we have been missing for a while. Production wise seems pretty good (though you have to allow for Youtube compression of course) and there is good instrument separation here. Nice time changes and excellent breakdown later on in the song. Not too impressed with the solo though and felt the song deserved slightly better. Vocally, nothing too special, and the verses are a little awkward though the "I Can't stop thinming big" bit is very nice indeed. So far it pisses over everything in S&A with the possible exception of Armour and Sword and though not exactlky a return to form it is very good indeed. Oh, and it's definitely metal BU2B......meh so far, but I have a feeling it's a grower..we shall see. Okay, who hijacked his account? Seriously, glad you're digging Caravan.

QUOTE (thebernreuter @ Jun 1 2010, 12:55 AM) Haha did you hear the cut at 1:56 in "BU2B?" Okay, maybe I do hear this one. Not sure about Caravan though. Possibly an edit at around 4:00? Hard to tell, though, because there are about five or six parts in that jam section. That last solo section is freaking sick! Regardless, thank you Rush for not playing it safe this time out! I loved S&A, but I'm glad we're not getting S&A Book II.

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jun 1 2010, 12:49 AM) I will say this......both songs had more of a "prog" feel than any of their albums in the past 2 decades.........

QUOTE (ReRushed @ Jun 1 2010, 12:35 AM) QUOTE (okiimatsu @ Jun 1 2010, 01:32 AM) I hope there is better songs on this album than these. Guitars sound muddy, screechy, interfere with everything else. what the flying f**k. Really? That's not what I'm hearing. The songs sound very crisp and clear to me. Like previously mentioned, have you heard Vapor Trails? Screw the haters, and don't try to reason with them. They're going to be all over this board for the next couple of days like stink on sh*t. I am completely blown away by these tracks. CA is going to be the best new Rush album since PoW or even GUP.

QUOTE (EmotionDetector @ May 19 2010, 01:52 PM) It looks like there are lyrics all through the cover art. Very cool. Good catch! How did I miss that? The lyrics look a bit VT-ish, which to me is a good thing. I always loved the lyrics on VT more than anything else about the album.

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 19 2010, 01:27 PM) QUOTE (PariahDog @ May 19 2010, 01:19 PM) But what us BU2B? As long as it's Good, i don't give a rats ass It could also be anacronym. First official guess: BU2B = Bring Us 2 Beers

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 18 2010, 02:12 PM)It's not just here. With any band that's been around as long as Rush has, you'll have the old school fans who just don't like the new music the band is putting out. They'd rather the band keep making the type of music they made in their heyday. For the people who like all or most of the band's music -- old and new -- those "the new stuff sucks" posts can get annoying. But the haters don't speak for the whole community. Agreed, it's not just here. I'm sure when S&A was released, it was probably 100 times worse over on CP.

QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 18 2010, 12:03 PM)No reason to avoid the whole board. That seems a bit much, IMO. Yeah, but if you're fanatical about not wanting to know the set... Some folks love to post spoilers in thread titles, which you could potentially see before they're caught and fixed. I also had to take a couple days "hiatus" when S&A was released. With every new Rush release, there seems to be a tremendous surge of negative, nasty opinions expressed here on TRF. Not just valid critical comments, but really over-the-top, negative, nasty stuff, IMO. I find myself taking this personally and affecting my enjoyment of the new release, so I find it's better to take a day or two away from TRF and absorb the new album on my own.

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 18 2010, 11:56 AM) QUOTE (PariahDog @ May 18 2010, 11:52 AM) QUOTE (metaldad @ May 18 2010, 11:09 AM) QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ May 18 2010, 09:38 AM) I'm not one to usually complain and I hate being negative, but damn.....5 or 6 S&A songs? Way too much time dedicated to that album. Again. Damn right Well, at least they're not playing 9 S&A songs like last tour. It will really depend on the songs and the placement. Hopefully they'll spread them out more this time. But I wouldn't mind seeing these again: Far Cry Armor and Sword Workin' Them Angels The Main Monkey Business The Way The Wind Blows Malignant Narcissism I can take Spindrift and Armor and Sword, the rest can shit a pickle Actually, Spindrift is one I didn't dig as much live, though I like the studio version. I think MalNar will probably be played and will lead into the drum solo like last tour. (Especially since YYZ will be played during the MP set and probably won't include the solo.)

QUOTE (hazlnut @ May 18 2010, 11:37 AM) QUOTE (1-0-0-1-0-0-1 @ May 18 2010, 11:31 AM) QUOTE (hazlnut @ May 18 2010, 11:21 AM) QUOTE (mazyyz @ May 17 2010, 08:32 PM) QUOTE (hazlnut @ May 16 2010, 02:46 PM) QUOTE (Tarkus407 @ May 14 2010, 09:30 PM) This forum IS the spoiler forum, dude. Like I said, I want... would prefer more of a buffer... Dude. Why don't you just create your own website? more snarky remarks from fellow fans... Nice. It was just a suggestion for a sub-sub forum for SPOILER threads. Frankly, all the 'possible spoiler' threads were getting annoying. But what else are people supposed to talk about. As long as everyone follows the spoiler rules, those of us who don't want to know every song before the show need not be concerned... still, seems like there's always one wisenheimer. Spoilers are a point of contention on these boards. Experience has told us that making a separate spoiler section along with a tour section is futile. For instance, we have a clearly-marked meetup section at the top of this forum, with dedicated threads for each show, and people still post meetup threads out here. No matter what signs you put up, people will either blow through them or not notice them. If we made a separate spoiler section, we'd still get tons of spoilers out here, and we mods would be chasing our tails trying to keep them contained. That's wasted effort, so no use trying that again. The best way to deal with spoilers is to make the whole tour section a spoiler section. We have to hope that people won't post spoilers in threads that aren't meant for them, and hope they mark their own threads as containing spoilers if they plan on posting any. Outside of that, enter this section at your own risk. We probably did get a little too snarky with you, but a lot of us have been here for the last couple of tours and we've seen people blindly post spoilers where they don't belong and we get frustrated. Take it with a grain of salt, we mean no harm. Fair enough, and I see what you're saying. Yes, I hope people do follow the 'Spoiler' guidelines. It did seem like there were an abundance of new threads with 'Spoiler' in the title. Perhaps that's what I was reacting to. I think they are, for the most part. You're supposed to have "spoiler" in the thread title and you're not supposed to have the spoiler itself in the title. Other than that, all bets are off. If you really don't want to see spoilers, you may need to avoid this forum (or board) for the next few weeks. I'm still debating myself if I want to see the setlist this time around.

QUOTE (metaldad @ May 18 2010, 11:09 AM) QUOTE (Storm Shadow @ May 18 2010, 09:38 AM) I'm not one to usually complain and I hate being negative, but damn.....5 or 6 S&A songs? Way too much time dedicated to that album. Again. Damn right Well, at least they're not playing 9 S&A songs like last tour. It will really depend on the songs and the placement. Hopefully they'll spread them out more this time. But I wouldn't mind seeing these again: Far Cry Armor and Sword Workin' Them Angels The Main Monkey Business The Way The Wind Blows Malignant Narcissism

QUOTE (Pause Rewind Replay @ Apr 27 2010, 04:04 PM) QUOTE (Digital_Man @ Apr 27 2010, 03:47 PM) What seats did you score? After all fees and shipping the Tampa tickets were $114 a piece. I ended up with Sec 7 row E seats 14 - 17. Looks like Geddy's side about 24 rows back.. You're gonna hate me... 8th row Alex's side in Tampa for $117 total, 6th row Geddy's side W Palm for $143 total (did I say Ouch?) I think it helps that I only needed 1 ticket... slip in between the blocks of 2 and 4 that most people get. Although that didn't work in '07, when I still wound up about 40 rows back in Tampa. I dunno, $143 doesn't seem bad at all for row 6. I just paid double that for row 8 in Vegas. But it will be worth every penny! My closest seat for Rush since row 4 for Presto.

QUOTE (Score Out @ Apr 26 2010, 02:03 PM)Wow...this really is getting unrewarding. I'm not affiliated with the band. I just happen to be privy to just about everything going on with the tour. I guess there really isn't much upside in trying to share whatever pieces of it that I can - at least with this group. If you reviewed all my posts from the past several months and felt that was all recycled info and lucky guesses then I'm not really sure what to tell you other than you're very poor at analyzing information and I must be a truly remarkable guesser. Score Out, I remember that you did pretty accurately predict Rush's current plan before it was official (record a couple songs, summer mini-tour to play them live, record full album, tour again next year). Plus a couple of other noteable details, if I recall. Could have been some shrewd guesses, but I think maybe you do have some kind of inside info. Having said that, I wouldn't bother trying to prove anything with anyone, especially with these "wagers." I would just put your info out there, and let people judge it in a few weeks.

QUOTE (okiimatsu @ Apr 20 2010, 03:05 PM) Damn, I scored! Orchestra 2, dead center at Irvine, 4 tickets! Took about 20 minutes. What can I say. Unbelievable!! Nice! I was trying to buy some Irvine tickets for a friend and got completely skunked. Did you buy those tix as a block of four?

My guess (and hope) is that they will play MP to start the second set, in the same order as the album, with no drum solo during YYZ. Only caveat is, I think this would be tough for Neil. Even coming off an intermission, and with no drum solo, I'd imagine TS/RB/YYZ/LL all in a row will be pretty tough to pull off (endurance-wise).

QUOTE (Godeater2112 @ Apr 20 2010, 04:12 AM)While the *real* prices too are rather steep, it's really not fair to complain about StubHub prices, since they are online scalpers. Yeah, pretty sure that Rush literally has zero control over Stubhub prices. Stubhub is all about supply and demand. Either these high-price Stubhub tickets will sell or they won't. If they don't, the prices will probably drop the day before or day of the show and maybe better deals can be had. It's probably too late for Seattle, but I would encourage anyone reading this to try the Music Today presales. I scored rows 12 and 15 for Seattle from the MT presale for face value ($135 including all fees/shipping). And this was about 45 minutes into the presale.