Mosher

Well I guess we see Twilight Zone similarly. As well as Bald. The other songs I have quite a bit higher. Everyday Glory is around 20 spots up, so readily interchangeable with my next 5 on another day. And I'm a weird outlier on Face Up and Big Wheel. They are both 50-60 spots higher. Even as I listen I can hear why people can't get on board. But whatever. I really dig those two tracks a lot.

#165 Need Some Love (Rush, 8th best of 8) #164 Tears (2112, 6th of 6) #163 Stick It Out (CP, 11th of 11) #162 What You're Doing (Rush, 7th of 8) #161 Here Again (Rush, 6th of 8) #160 In The Mood (Rush, 5th of 8) #159 Before and After (Rush, 4th of 8) #158 Finding My Way (Rush, 3rd of 8) #157 Second Nature (HYF, 10th of 10) #156 Bravest Face (S&A, 13th of 13) #155 Sweet Miracle (VT, 13th of 13) #154 BU2B2 (CA, 12th of 12) #153 Speed of Love (CP, 10th of 11) #152 Good News First (S&A, 12th of 13) #151 Madrigal (AFTK, 6th of 6) #150 Faithless (S&A, 11th of 13) #149 Half the World (TFE, 11th of 11) #148 Out Of the Cradle (VT, 12th of 13) #147 Red Lenses (P/G, 8th of 8) #146 Tai Shan (HYF, 9th of 10) #145 Peacable Kingdom (VT, 11th of 13) #144 Freeze (VT, 10th of 13) #143 Stars Look Down (VT, 9th of 13) #142 Lakeside Park (CoS, 5th of 5) #141 Leave That Thing Alone (CP, 9th of 11) #140 Secret Touch (VT, 8th of 13) #139 Totem (TFE, 10th of 11) #138 Neurotica (RTB, 10th of 10) #137 Spindrift (S&A, 10th of 13) #136 Limbo (TFE, 9th of 11) #135 Lessons (2112, 5th of 6) #134 Best I Can (FBN, 8th of 8) #133 Mission (HYF, 8th of 10) #132 I Think I'm Going Bald (CoS, 4th of 5) #131 Superconductor (P, 11th of 11) #130 We Hold On (S&A, 9th of 13) #129 Scars (P, 10th of 11) #128 Take A Friend (Rush, 2nd of 8) #127 Ghost of a Chance (RTB, 9th of 10) #126 Resist (TFE, 8th of 11) #125 Caravan (CA, 11th of 12) #124 Double Agent (CP, 8th of 11) #123 Making Memories (FBN, 7th of 8) #122 Rivendell (FBN, 6th of 8) #121 Twilight Zone (2112, 4th of 6) I like every one of these songs without issue. Not every song can be the same, and from here on out the quibbles are minor. There will still be weak lyrics coming up. Geddy will make more vocal choices that bug me. Alex will be left to the side more than he should be on occasion. But every song from here on out is, to me, a very good song. These 5 are lower because some tracks just will be. It will be a bit before the songs that cannot be exchanged for these show up. If you think some of these should be 20 spots higher- no worries. On another day they would have been.

This is a surprise. While I didn't expect it to actually be first, I definitely expected a top 20 spot. It's always been a favorite of mine. It's 32nd on my list and second off that album. It's managed over the years to climb past Force Ten, Time Stand Still, and Lock and Key to get there. So in a surprise move I guess maybe I like it best across the folk on this forum. Maybe not, there are some serious HYF folk out there. But still, not many would put High Water where I do.

I don't think McCoy replaces M'Bega, because M'Bega appears in the original series. He was presented as a doctor who understood Vulcan medicine. Famously slaps Spock repeatedly. But he does leave at some point, that's true. But you make a very good point. The war is fresh for Chapel and M'Bega. And here we have a man pretending that M'Bega's actions were his own, covering up his cowardice with a cloak of righteous valor as he becomes the glowing example of peace, while M'Bega and Chapel are both fully aware that he is lying- because they know for a fact he did not perform the actions. M'Bega did. So not only do they know he's the original villain, they know he did not change course and stop the slaughter. He ran away and is now pretending to be a hero. That's a lot for M'Bega and Chapel to unpack when filtered through the lens of their own traumatic experiences. It wasn't the better example Star Trek aspires to, but it is understandable. Especially when we don't actually know the full extent of the events unfolding behind an opaque screen. I think the whole thing is set up to bring M'Bega closer to the Trek ideal down the road. It's not the Star Trek way and it's important that is remembered. KenJennings isn't wrong there. I want my Trek to show humans succeeding to be our better selves through challenging circumstances. I want it too be hard. To be a journey. Because that's a stronger lesson for human now. To see people working hard to overcome their failings and succeeding is stronger than seeing them succeed every time. At least to me. If M'Bega grows into a better version of himself after this it will make this episode great. Right now I still really liked it. Because it wasn't painted as correct. This event, like the war itself, will be a demon in the minds of both Chapel and M'Bega. That could be a very powerful dramatic note for growth down the road.

#165 Need Some Love (Rush, 8th best of 8) #164 Tears (2112, 6th of 6) #163 Stick It Out (CP, 11th of 11) #162 What You're Doing (Rush, 7th of 8) #161 Here Again (Rush, 6th of 8) #160 In The Mood (Rush, 5th of 8) #159 Before and After (Rush, 4th of 8) #158 Finding My Way (Rush, 3rd of 8) #157 Second Nature (HYF, 10th of 10) #156 Bravest Face (S&A, 13th of 13) #155 Sweet Miracle (VT, 13th of 13) #154 BU2B2 (CA, 12th of 12) #153 Speed of Love (CP, 10th of 11) #152 Good News First (S&A, 12th of 13) #151 Madrigal (AFTK, 6th of 6) #150 Faithless (S&A, 11th of 13) #149 Half the World (TFE, 11th of 11) #148 Out Of the Cradle (VT, 12th of 13) #147 Red Lenses (P/G, 8th of 8) #146 Tai Shan (HYF, 9th of 10) #145 Peacable Kingdom (VT, 11th of 13) #144 Freeze (VT, 10th of 13) #143 Stars Look Down (VT, 9th of 13) #142 Lakeside Park (CoS, 5th of 5) #141 Leave That Thing Alone (CP, 9th of 11) #140 Secret Touch (VT, 8th of 13) #139 Totem (TFE, 10th of 11) #138 Neurotica (RTB, 10th of 10) #137 Spindrift (S&A, 10th of 13) #136 Limbo (TFE, 9th of 11) #135 Lessons (2112, 5th of 6) #134 Best I Can (FBN, 8th of 8) #133 Mission (HYF, 8th of 10) #132 I Think I'm Going Bald (CoS, 4th of 5) #131 Superconductor (P, 11th of 11) #130 We Hold On (S&A, 9th of 13) #129 Scars (P, 10th of 11) #128 Take A Friend (Rush, 2nd of 8) #127 Ghost of a Chance (RTB, 9th of 10) #126 Resist (TFE, 8th of 11) Not much to say about We Hold On, it's just an average song, as Rush goes, for me. I clearly am not into Ghost or Resist like so many here, but to me they are also just Rush-average songs. Scars listed here baffles me. There's a lot I don't like about it. But I guess what I like, which I like a lot, balances it into a middle song. It's a song of great contrast for me. They haven't written many where I love elements and loathe others. Take A Friend dropping out leaves only Working Man off that first album. Something about this song has always placed it above all the other fine rockers off that album. Maybe it's the fact it feels like it doesn't fit on this album, musically. It stood about. Working Man of course fits beautifully, but it remains far superior because it is just phenomenal in it's fiery execution. Take A Friend has very little fire. I should have it below Finding My Way, all things being equal. But they aren't equal. The things Alex does on Take A Friend set it apart for me.

Well, obviously Middeltown Dreams is far too low. I have it 41st, 4th off Power Windows. But it has risen a lot over the decades, maybe you just need more time? :) Chemistry I have around the same area, a bit higher. Here Again is much much much lower. I don't rate the first album all that high on the whole. Fine song for another band. Mission I just killed, so you and I see it in the same zone. You'll get hate, but I agree. Double Agent I have in basically the same spot as well. You'll see it soon.

I agree with you while heartedly. I want my star Trek future, I always have. Please don't misunderstand. I don't think M'Bega made the right choice. These things were struggled with in old Trek. He had better solutions. I'm choosing to believe this will be an area for him to grow in. I am a big fan of human failings still existing, even in Trek. Characters have had to overcome prejudice (O'Brien with Cardassians), uninformed bias (Riker with Ensign Ro), to name others. This was a killing. Was it murder? We didn't see what happened. They deliberately hid that. But however it happened it was avoidable. M'Bega and Chapel are still human. They have human failings. And they suffered severe trauma. The question to me is will this push towards the ideal, or will it be dropped as an okay result. Right now I believe SNW has recovered the missing piece Picard and Discovery dropped. It's more positive overall (unlike Discovery) and ethically more grounded (unlike Picard). I'm trusting that this comes back.

I have Ghost Rider 77th and 5th off Vapor Trails. Interesting, though. I think if I did this now it would be 3rd off Vapor, so probably even higher on the list. It's a deep song, and that really helps it.

Oh, I knew this one would be unpopular. I like it much more than I did at first

I'm cut and pasting and then editing. Just missed than. That was the HYF error before. Just sloppy work

No Hate. Resist isn't special to me at all. I have no argument with any of this. Stars really annoys me vocally, but even then I am fine with you rating it so much higher. Musically it's quite nice.

#165 Need Some Love (Rush, 8th best of 8) #164 Tears (2112, 6th of 6) #163 Stick It Out (CP, 11th of 11) #162 What You're Doing (Rush, 7th of 8) #161 Here Again (Rush, 6th of 8) #160 In The Mood (Rush, 5th of 8) #159 Before and After (Rush, 4th of 8) #158 Finding My Way (Rush, 3rd of 8) #157 Second Nature (HYF, 10th of 10) #156 Bravest Face (S&A, 13th of 13) #155 Sweet Miracle (VT, 13th of 13) #154 BU2B2 (CA, 12th of 12) #153 Speed of Love (CP, 10th of 11) #152 Good News First (S&A, 12th of 13) #151 Madrigal (AFTK, 6th of 6) #150 Faithless (S&A, 11th of 13) #149 Half the World (TFE, 11th of 11) #148 Out Of the Cradle (VT, 12th of 13) #147 Red Lenses (P/G, 8th of 8) #146 Tai Shan (HYF, 9th of 10) #145 Peacable Kingdom (VT, 11th of 13) #144 Freeze (VT, 10th of 13) #143 Stars Look Down (VT, 9th of 13) #142 Lakeside Park (CoS, 5th of 5) #141 Leave That Thing Alone (CP, 9th of 11) #140 Secret Touch (VT, 8th of 13) #139 Totem (TFE, 10th of 11) #138 Neurotica (RTB, 10th of 10) #137 Spindrift (S&A, 10th of 13) #136 Limbo (TFE, 9th of 11) #135 Lessons (2112, 5th of 6) #134 Best I Can (FBN, 8th of 8) #133 Mission (HYF, 8th of 10) #132 I Think I'm Going Bald (CoS, 4th of 5) #131 Superconductor (P, 11th of 11) Things are easily scrambled here. I look at these songs and increasingly it seems arbitrary where I place them. Best I Can is doing well, here. It's basically just a first album song and I drop those pretty far on the whole. Mission used to bore me more than Tai Shan, it's really doing well these days. I Think I'm Going Bald doesn't fit on Caress at all, it's a Neil song written like a pre-Neil song. But it rocks. I have always liked Lessons. Musically it far surpasses the lyrics. Superconductor has dropped over the years. We're going to be waving good bye to Presto songs at a fair clip, now, I think. I'm actually surprised it's the first one I've removed. We're definitely in the section where rankings don't matter. Middling songs as Rush goes, but they're all good songs.

I should add that M'Bega has never been interested in talking about the events, and the show intentionally left the death behind opaque glass. So while we believe we know the doctor killed in cold blood, we don't know exactly what happened. That may have been to soften or shock at his actions, but it may have been to hold things back to tell us later. It's a reach, but maybe the ambassador thought M'Bega would expose him and really did start that fight right then.

I always believed Data did shoot. He lost control- a human moment intended to grow his character. And yes, there was reason, regardless. And as I said, my hope is that there will be consequences down the road and not a reset- because that's the only thing that makes this choice work for me. It's critical that this doesn't end here- because you're correct. It was NOT a good decision and it was out of line with Trek philosophy. And importantly I don't think it's meant to look like a correct decision. Time will tell. If it really just ends like this then it fails. I think the show intends more. It's been demonstrated that O'Brien could have behaved similarly. He avoids it- but he considers it. A younger O'Brien, more fresh from the events of the Cardassian war- who knows. Star Trek has always, Worf aside, allowed our heroes to rise above their worst instincts. I really think this will be used to strengthen M'Bega in future stories. Another similar event where he chooses differently, maybe. Or sees himself in another behaving that way and reflects and confesses. Something for next season. I'm truly optimistic.

I was very surprised by the choice they made as well. It's a very human choice, and the show at least went to great effort to really underline the trauma he suffered and more importantly witnessed. It showed us a lot of motivation. It even made Chapel complicit. It also showed that La'an and Pike don't buy it It's not a Trek choice. Star Trek had been there before, though, with character intent. Data firing the illegal weapon at the same second he's rescued- dissipating the blast in the beam up. So no consequence, but he did it. Kira was close a few times. Worf has actually done this. We forgive it because he's Klingon. But he's also star Fleet. Though they reign him in before he goes this far. I actually really liked the episode, but it would be a more Trek story if M'Bega had been trying to counsel another person against this act, or tried to stop another person last second. So why do I like it? Because I think I trust the show to grow him out of this over time. It's a dark time for Chapel, too, who shares this guilt. I believe this will have consequences and will lead to a more Trek mind set. I hated the Tuvix decision. It's my least favorite thing Voyager ever did. It was a fail, and I'm glad the Doctor was against it. This was a fail as well, but I didn't hate it. Probably because I think the psychological trauma faced in SNW was far more than that faced in Voyager. My hope is that unlike Voyager, there's no reset on SNW. This was a huge mistake. If it is treated as a huge mistake, it could help support what Trek is. He and Chapel must suffer for this decision, or I'll have to re-evaluate the episode. But as a human story it was fantastically acted. I reserve full judgment until I see if this carries weight into next season But right now I really liked this episode a lot. It has to matter, though. And it has to be seen as a failing with consequence.

Alien Shore is 63rd on my list and 4th off Counterparts. It has risen over the years, and I can certainly say I really like the song. Two of your bottom four off Counterparts are in my top four, and two are at the bottom. Not much else to say- 63rd or 114th- for Rush those are all middle of the pack songs.

I love Grand Designs, second off Power Windows for me. It's a bit overdosed on 80's bells and whistles, I'll admit. But it's a great song. Emotion is last off Power WIndows and it's still 89th. So we disagree here. Your other choices are fine, no real quibbles.

#165 Need Some Love (Rush, 8th best of 8) #164 Tears (2112, 6th of 6) #163 Stick It Out (CP, 11th of 11) #162 What You're Doing (Rush, 7th of 8) #161 Here Again (Rush, 6th of 8) #160 In The Mood (Rush, 5th of 8) #159 Before and After (Rush, 4th of 8) #158 Finding My Way (Rush, 3rd of 8) #157 Second Nature (HYF, 10th of 10) #156 Bravest Face (S&A, 13th of 13) #155 Sweet Miracle (VT, 13th of 13) #154 BU2B2 (CA, 12th of 12) #153 Speed of Love (CP, 10th of 11) #152 Good News First (S&A, 12th of 13) #151 Madrigal (AFTK, 6th of 6) #150 Faithless (S&A, 11th of 13) #149 Half the World (TFE, 11th of 11) #148 Out Of the Cradle (VT, 12th of 13) #147 Red Lenses (P/G, 8th of 8) #146 Tai Shan (HYF, 9th of 10) #145 Peacable Kingdom (VT, 11th of 13) #144 Freeze (VT, 10th of 13) #143 Stars Look Down (VT, 9th of 13) #142 Lakeside Park (CoS, 5th of 5) #141 Leave That Thing Alone (CP, 9th of 11) #140 Secret Touch (VT, 8th of 13) #139 Totem (TFE, 10th of 11) #138 Neurotica (RTB, 10th of 10) #137 Spindrift (S&A, 10th of 13) #136 Limbo (TFE, 9th of 11) No real issues with these other than some of the vocal stuff and fluffy bits. These are all fine songs gathering at the bottom of the pack.

I've got Workin' Them Angels 64th on my list and second off Snakes. I re-listened just now before checking my ranking. I have definitely changed my mind. It's a very good song but it isn't that good. I'm not changing it, though, as my rankings as described here and in L@BT's thread are reflective of one specific day in my life. And I guess on that day, this song really resonated with me.

I have no idea what I looked at that gave me that impression. I was so sure I just rechecked your lists and I am completely wrong. I checked Hi_Water's lists to see if I was conflating that with yours- but he shows both ranking every time. Whatever I saw, I was out of my mind I guess. Maybe that's why I love You Bet Your Life. :)

I have Time and Motion at 115th and Open Secrets at 98th. I was relistening to Vapor Trails yesterday as well as Snakes and they are both continuing to grow on me- I think the list I created when Hi-Water started this is already woefully out of date. But I like being able to respond quickly with my counter in this thread, so I'm just shrugging off my own befuddlement at "what was I thinking". I'm sure both Hi_Water and L@BT would have a different list if they did theirs again, too.

Just noticed we're doing the (#of#) differently. I'm using that to show where it ranked on the album, your showing where it's located on the album. In case anyone is paying attention- I do know what order the songs are in.) You Bet Your Life is the highest I have of what you just killed off, at 80th. I don't dispute any of the criticisms, I know it's loathed by many. I can't explain really why, but I have always really liked that song.

#165 Need Some Love (Rush, 8th best of 8) #164 Tears (2112, 6th of 6) #163 Stick It Out (CP, 11th of 11) #162 What You're Doing (Rush, 7th of 8) #161 Here Again (Rush, 6th of 8) #160 In The Mood (Rush, 5th of 8) #159 Before and After (Rush, 4th of 8) #158 Finding My Way (Rush, 3rd of 8) #157 Second Nature (HYF, 10th of 10) #156 Bravest Face (S&A, 13th of 13) #155 Sweet Miracle (VT, 13th of 13) #154 BU2B2 (CA, 12th of 12) #153 Speed of Love (CP, 10th of 11) #152 Good News First (S&A, 12th of 13) #151 Madrigal (AFTK, 6th of 6) #150 Faithless (S&A, 11th of 13) #149 Half the World (TFE, 11th of 11) #148 Out Of the Cradle (VT, 12th of 13) #147 Red Lenses (P/G, 8th of 8) #146 Tai Shan (HYF, 9th of 10) #145 Peacable Kingdom (VT, 11th of 13) #144 Freeze (VT, 10th of 13) #143 Stars Look Down (VT, 9th of 13) #142 Lakeside Park (CoS, 5th of 5) #141 Leave That Thing Alone (CP, 9th of 11) Again, we're at songs I essentially like now. As I mentioned before this is primarily the "vocals annoy me" section. Vapor Trails, and Snakes to a lesser extent, bothered me vocally more than any other albums. I never liked how Geddy sang Lakeside Park, although I really like the song- don't hate me too much. I know it's immensely popular. And and instrumental because although I like every instrumental, most of them can't beat many songs with words.

How it Is was one of the few songs off Vapor Trails I immediately liked. It took awhile for that album to click for me. Earthshine was always my favorite and still is, but How It Is was second even before the remix. It's third now, after Nocturne- that song really grew on me. And a few others (especially Ghost Rider) really climbed up the ladder. I'm surprised the original mix was so low for you. It's 61st on my list.

Yep. Broon's Bane is a very nice track.