RushRevisited

Georgia largely opened on April 27. Texas? April 28 Florida? May 15 Wisconsin (remember your fear mongering with the packed bars, people in crowds?) - May 14. Seems we are already 3-4+ weeks on these states (and many more I have not even mentioned) Do you want to revise your 3-4 week apocalypse prediction?

I'm not planning on dying anytime soon. I've fought too hard to get along and survive this far. Not gonna' let this thing take me out. Well if you consider hiding in your house and not doing anything but cowering in fear "living" then live away. That's your choice and I support you choosing whatever you choose to do. Just don't dictate that I have to live with the same baseless fear as you.

What does my being an admin have to do with your bullshit here? Yes, we are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You are peddling fear, you follow around and harrass a good member like Narps and when he ends up being right you double down with no evidence at all. In fact, the evidence is against your fear mongering point of view, as the numbers continue to go down - and we are testing the f**k out of people yet they are STILL going down. Facts are not on your side. The flu could also be considered a population killer. As I have said before, with 875,000 death per year alone from heart disease, that would also be a population killer, right? 3-4 weeks from symptoms to death? No, that isn't accurate either, but let's say it is. So why have states like Georgia, Florida, Texas, Wisconsin, Ohio, etc seen their death numbers drop when most of those states have been largely open, even restaurants? Still doesn't give you any pause, huh? So what exactly is your prediction for "600 days from now"? And again, what are you waiting for exactly? A vaccine? See my post above about that. Herd immunity? See my post about that. The effect on the world economy on this has been FAR worse than the virus itself. Period.

And just to add, grep - even if it HAD gone up tenfold and the hospitals had been overwhelmed, staying inside and waiting for a vaccine is not valid. As I posted earlier, how is that AIDS vaccine coming along? What about the malaria vaccine? Nope none for that either... And if the US has 30,000 new cases per day it seems to me that it would take almost 25 years to get herd immunity. So are you going to stay in until a vaccine comes along or we get herd immunity?

Oh, it can and it likely already has. We're f***ed. Oh for f**k sake here we go again... Exactly...watch for that next peak. Like when you said three weeks ago that Wisconsin was f***ed? Remember that? And Texas and Florida, and Georgia, and Ohio which have largely been "reopened" for 4-6 weeks? Even I expected the numbers to go double (which isn't saying much - to go from a whopping 500 cases to 1000 cases a day) - but even that hasn't happened. Is there any point that you will admit you are wrong and are simply peddling more fear? Also still waiting for your response: http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/109300-who-has-the-virus-tell-us-when-you-get-it/page__st__800#entry4769342 You also never told us what exactly was going to happen "in 600 days": http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/109300-who-has-the-virus-tell-us-when-you-get-it/page__st__800#entry4769850 On March 17th, now 10+ weeks ago, you posted: That's the mindset that will get people killed. The time to react is a month ago. We should have been hunkering down then. If we all did, then this thing would have had a fair chance of dying out by now. Instead we are at least one order of magnitude worse off (amount of spread) than we were. It will keep spreading unchecked unless we limit humans contact with each other. I cannot conceive of people's inability to understand these simple concepts. Let's come back to this post in a month. We'll see who's right. http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?/topic/109300-who-has-the-virus-tell-us-when-you-get-it/#entry4739998 Remember that? Remember how you continuously harassed Narps here even after he left the board because of you and your bullshit as the number went up (although not nearly like you claimed they would)? So here I am, not a month later (although I did request your input then too but you didn't reply), but almost 3 months later. So who is right so far grep? Even I thought the numbers would increase as things opened up and they really haven't. Doesn't that make you pause at all and rethink your blind fear?

Oh, it can and it likely already has. We're f***ed. Oh for f**k sake here we go again...

Awesome!!! That's what I'm talking about. Noticing silliness is not a crime. To me, those shorts are a much better example of "WTF were they thinking when they designed those?" than that mask was. Like, how did those shorts ever get okayed for production? (Maybe the red fire hydrant and dog from Signals would have been better? Hmm, maybe not...) The Starman on the mask is much smaller and not everyone is going to think there's an inappropriate juxtaposition there. There's absolutely nothing wrong with silliness and sarcasm, or pointing it out when others use it. I wasn't crazy about your original mask comment either, mainly because the person wearing the mask was someone who was super excited about Rush re-tweeting her picture, and then you come in and put a big damper on it ("Uhhhh I really didn't want to say anything....but..."). Again, it was the way you went after the ones who called you out. I didn't step in until you had a few exchanges with them -- there was enough material from you at that point to establish a certain pattern of "dickishness" in your responses, like you had all these smartass belittling comments lined up and ready to go, and you were so happy to be able to fire them all off to show how bitingly clever you are. It got old real quick. You have over 1,100 posts and this is the first time someone's had a problem with you, so this doesn't need to turn into an ongoing thing. It happened, the original topic is back to doing it's original topic thing, so in the end, no big deal. ^^^ Well said.

My 25th anniversary is next Wednesday. I had Susie Essman do a cameo for my wife (as well as 10 other "stars" out there) for her - though Susie's was awesome. Will insert it into season 9 next week for our anniversary: https://www.cameo.com/v/GekkIQJez?_branch_match_id=796212471422008911&utm_source=email&utm_campaign=ViewCameoCompletedEmail (FYI the "Covid Beer" is 65 cases of beer I bought as a semi-joke during the lockdown (not going to be stuck without f***ing beer lol)

That may very well be true; ideally, they wouldn't be protesting at all because it does create a risk, no matter how "right" it is. As somebody stated above, it's not like the virus cares whether a gathering is good or bad. It just cares how old or sick you are. Kinda like the flu does.

I guess maybe the governor isn't worried about Covid spread with the rioters because he knows that Antifa is known to wear masks anyway when they riot and burn.

Maybe the difference was in trying to prevent or diminish something potentially worse? You mean like rioting and burning shit down?

Have you seen the video of the guy almost stoned to death from Dallas? Didn’t look too peaceful to me. Are Jews at a funeral whooping it up and getting drunk? I don’t know. But I would think it’s more important to them than stealing a laptop. But de Blasio seems to have been more concerned with the former. You mean this every so peaceful protest?

You'll just get a bit of a cold and that'll be it. Over 1000,000 dead in the states-----Really? Inflated number to begin with, and 95% old with preexisting conditions... but also consider 60,000 flu deaths some years. Paying 20% premium for medicare and $39,000 flat for ventilator premium if labeled covid death is a recipe for fraud and incentive to not test and "assume" it is a covid death.

wld type better reply bt hrd 2 type w 1 hand

In all seriousness, even I expected the numbers to double or so as things started to open up. I find it odd that states like Georgia and Texas and Florida (which has a very high elderly population) have been largely "open" for 3-4 weeks now, Ohio, Wisconsin, tons of states "open" for the past week or two including restaurants, yet we see the numbers flat or even dropping still. I predict that the antibody tests in places like Santa Clara county (found 55-80 times the people actually have had it) and NYC (it was discovered recently that in NYC that a staggering 24% of people already have the antibody) are in indication that many more had this and just didn't know it, had no symptoms... Which means this was really a knee jerk reaction by the world with costs and implications that will hit us for a decade or more to come. Think about it... Potentially 1 in every 5 people in NYC have had this already. https://www.livescience.com/covid-antibody-test-results-new-york-test.html

Why? What happens in 600 days? I've read about this. I believe it's from CNN. Complete Nonsense Network. However, it could be true. They were saying that there will be no concerts or sporting events with fans until 2022. There was a public health doctor on our news talking about this the other day. I guess the theory is that the mass contagion of a virus won't stop until about 60% of the population of an area has been exposed and has the antibodies.Haven't had a chance to read how scientific that information is. Best estimates are that only about 4% of people in the US have had it so far. He was saying the exposure comes about by having Covid, or by getting exposed to it through a vaccine. I'm really hoping for a rapid vaccine for a lot of reasons, concerts included! Yasss! I grew up with someone who's a microbiologist, though, and she says the vaccine process takes awhile. (Another kid next door also turned out to be a smart economist guy. I'm pretty much the underachiever from my street ) If people are waiting for a vaccine or herd immunity to happen before the get back to normal life, they may be waiting a while. While I am hopeful of a vaccine in the next 12 months, I am realistic in knowing the average length of time for a vaccine for a new virus is a lot longer than that. We are still waiting on an AIDS vaccine and it has been decades, no? If only 4% in the U.S. have had it (I believe that number is actually much higher, but...) then that means 328,000,000 - 12,400,000 = 315,600,000 * 60% = 189,000,000 still need to get it before we were to hit "statistical immunity". At 30,000 new cases per day we should achieve that in only 17.4 short years. OR, we could actually go out and enjoy our lives knowing this virus is out there (as well as many other risks out there in life) and we might realize this whole thing has been overblown when millions aren't dying in the streets...

I'd argue that this virus is significantly more deadly than any other thing. Even if you don't want to say 80,000 dead in the US because of inflated numbers. I'll be generous and cut that in half. So 40,000 dead in 2 months. Houston, we have a problem. The number of increased deaths is undeniable. They are burying people in mass graves in NYC, because so many are dying. So many more than normal. What's the cause of all that death? The media shoving it down our throats? It's real buddy. And the solution isn't as simple as some guy afraid of dying staying home. Staying home is also supposed to SLOW THE VIRUS DOWN, so that it has a reduced chance to spread to the vulnerable. Until there are vaccines and treatments. People are really showing their selfish, true colors with this thing. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But people are dying because of it. And yeah, I look forward to the day that we can safely have beer together. I'll buy the first round. No shit it's real, buddy. So is the flu. Do you react like this every year when the flu comes around and kills up to 60,000- 65,000 people? No? Why not? It's a real question you should ask yourself. You almost seem militant to anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and want to seal themselves in a cave and not come out until a vaccine is ready. That is your choice to do that. Seal yourself in. Many of the rest of us are ready to get back to normal life and would rather "take the risk". Keep yourself sealed in - and people who feel they are at risk - stay in hiding. The opening of businesses and regular life that you are so against does not affect you because you are hunkering down until there is a vaccine or the virus goes away through herd immunity. So my going out won't affect you at all. In fact you should want people to all go out while you don't and then the 60-70% herd immunity will happen for you. Maybe you are the one who is selfish, not the ones willing to "take a chance" and who want to get the economic engine of this country running again. Militant? Strong willed is more like it. I'm not being selfish by understanding the nature of the virus, understanding that it's a killer, and not wanting to be one who'd infect someone else with it. When you're taking that risk, you're not just taking that risk for yourself. You are taking that risk for everyone down the line who you'd infect. Remember that. I do notice though that no one ever directly answers the question about what lives are worth. Then you could apply that to the flu or any "dangerous thing" like driving, no? Do you drive? How can you do that when you might kill someone? I mean 38,000 lives lost every year just in the US, 1.3 million world wide. Don't you care about people? Just one life saved... How can you ever go out in the flu season again? I mean you might have it and give it to someone who is going to a nursing home to visit their mother or grandmother! Give me a f***ing break. Again - if YOU are not going out then YOU can't get the virus right? Seriously, stay the f**k indoors and away from people if you want. That is your choice. Let's talk about risk vs impact then. One of us could slip in the shower and break our necks. There's risk in everything. In that case, it would just be our necks. The death would stop there. Limited exposure. Or we could get in the car and kill ourselves or someone else. Any number of ways. Again, pretty limited exposure as tragic as it is. Nobody else outside that small circle will be impacted. The Flu. Infectious. We pass it along and the R0 is usually around 1. It sucks, but that's the nature of the typical flu virus. So more exposure and chance of death than the singleton events above. Fortunately we as humans have some protection in built up immunity and mostly effective vaccines. For the most part flu isn't communacable until symptoms appear in the carrier. So smart people who are sick with the flu stay home, heal up, and as a net effect limit spread to he next person. 30 something thousand dead in a year sucks, but without vaccines and immunity would be a lot worse..... like it was in the past before modern medical science and vaccines were developed for the common flu strains. Which leads us to the COVID situation: COVID 19. R0 of as high as 5.6. No built up immunity thus far. No working vaccines or treatments. High mortality rate. That R0 means that one person can potentially infect more than 5 new people. That would be ASYMPTOMATIC spread. Spreaders may not know they have it. So they just go to the beach and the bar, catch it, and spread it unaware that it's happening. Risk potential for spreading to people down the line is huge - as we've seen. (and they spread to 4 friends, and they spread to 4 friends, and so on and so on and so on). The flu does not have an r0 of 1. an r0 of 1 would mean that statistically there is no increase in cases - as one recovers one gets it. The flu is actually around 1.3 on average (the r0 of any virus changes as time goes on - it is a moving target as more become immune) and the WHO (which has overblown everything to date), says that Covid 19 is between 1.4 and 2.5. SARS was stated at points to be 2.0. https://www.worldome...onavirus/#repro To put that in perspective, the measles is 12-18. https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28757186/ Where do you get "as high as 5.6"? Never seen that number, as even the WHO initially had it at 1.5 - 3.5. I am sure there is some publication out there that claims such a high r0, as there seems to be many publications coming out of the woodwork with scary numbers and information that do not end up coming to fruition, but the CDC and WHO does not say 5.6. You say " For the most part flu isn't communacable [sic] until symptoms appear in the carrier." This is quite incorrect. https://www.cdc.gov/...ease/spread.htm Click the link and educate yourself on the flu. It is absolutely contagious before symptoms show up: Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others. Sound familiar? Yes, the flu is transmitted before symptoms, and yes people are asymptomatic with the flu and still pass it on (sound familiar?) Now, let's go back to your r0 value of 5.6, I'll even say just use your 4.0 if you want, although that is not a valid number, but rather one you pulled from the old top range estimates to instill more fear in people here, have you done the math on that 4.0 number? The mean incubation period is 4.5 days according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/...oV-2 infection. So have you done the math on you r0=4.0 number based on the incubation period? Let's start at KNOWN cases of 200,000 on April 1st - I will even give you the benefit of the doubt HUGELY in saying the 200,000 cases in the US represents not just cases confirmed, but ALL cases (it doesn't, so this is a huge gift to you on this demonstration). based on that info, using your r0 = 4.0 and incubation period 4.5 days average, how many people in the US should have it now? I'll tell you what. You won the argument. Have fun out there. Now I'm going to go 'hide in my closet'. Avoid crowds - yeah, lay low for a while. Fortunately the choices I've made in my life for the last 40 years have put me in a position where I can ride this out. Some short term sacrifice for the greater good, as well as my own. See ya'll in 600 days. By then this little argument won't matter. Why? What happens in 600 days?

That was awesome! You have a wonderful family!! :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Happy anniversary you shady bastard :laughing guy:

Happy anniversary Tony!!! :cheers:

I'd argue that this virus is significantly more deadly than any other thing. Even if you don't want to say 80,000 dead in the US because of inflated numbers. I'll be generous and cut that in half. So 40,000 dead in 2 months. Houston, we have a problem. The number of increased deaths is undeniable. They are burying people in mass graves in NYC, because so many are dying. So many more than normal. What's the cause of all that death? The media shoving it down our throats? It's real buddy. And the solution isn't as simple as some guy afraid of dying staying home. Staying home is also supposed to SLOW THE VIRUS DOWN, so that it has a reduced chance to spread to the vulnerable. Until there are vaccines and treatments. People are really showing their selfish, true colors with this thing. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But people are dying because of it. And yeah, I look forward to the day that we can safely have beer together. I'll buy the first round. No shit it's real, buddy. So is the flu. Do you react like this every year when the flu comes around and kills up to 60,000- 65,000 people? No? Why not? It's a real question you should ask yourself. You almost seem militant to anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and want to seal themselves in a cave and not come out until a vaccine is ready. That is your choice to do that. Seal yourself in. Many of the rest of us are ready to get back to normal life and would rather "take the risk". Keep yourself sealed in - and people who feel they are at risk - stay in hiding. The opening of businesses and regular life that you are so against does not affect you because you are hunkering down until there is a vaccine or the virus goes away through herd immunity. So my going out won't affect you at all. In fact you should want people to all go out while you don't and then the 60-70% herd immunity will happen for you. Maybe you are the one who is selfish, not the ones willing to "take a chance" and who want to get the economic engine of this country running again. Militant? Strong willed is more like it. I'm not being selfish by understanding the nature of the virus, understanding that it's a killer, and not wanting to be one who'd infect someone else with it. When you're taking that risk, you're not just taking that risk for yourself. You are taking that risk for everyone down the line who you'd infect. Remember that. I do notice though that no one ever directly answers the question about what lives are worth. Then you could apply that to the flu or any "dangerous thing" like driving, no? Do you drive? How can you do that when you might kill someone? I mean 38,000 lives lost every year just in the US, 1.3 million world wide. Don't you care about people? Just one life saved... How can you ever go out in the flu season again? I mean you might have it and give it to someone who is going to a nursing home to visit their mother or grandmother! Give me a f***ing break. Again - if YOU are not going out then YOU can't get the virus right? Seriously, stay the f**k indoors and away from people if you want. That is your choice. Let's talk about risk vs impact then. One of us could slip in the shower and break our necks. There's risk in everything. In that case, it would just be our necks. The death would stop there. Limited exposure. Or we could get in the car and kill ourselves or someone else. Any number of ways. Again, pretty limited exposure as tragic as it is. Nobody else outside that small circle will be impacted. The Flu. Infectious. We pass it along and the R0 is usually around 1. It sucks, but that's the nature of the typical flu virus. So more exposure and chance of death than the singleton events above. Fortunately we as humans have some protection in built up immunity and mostly effective vaccines. For the most part flu isn't communacable until symptoms appear in the carrier. So smart people who are sick with the flu stay home, heal up, and as a net effect limit spread to he next person. 30 something thousand dead in a year sucks, but without vaccines and immunity would be a lot worse..... like it was in the past before modern medical science and vaccines were developed for the common flu strains. Which leads us to the COVID situation: COVID 19. R0 of as high as 5.6. No built up immunity thus far. No working vaccines or treatments. High mortality rate. That R0 means that one person can potentially infect more than 5 new people. That would be ASYMPTOMATIC spread. Spreaders may not know they have it. So they just go to the beach and the bar, catch it, and spread it unaware that it's happening. Risk potential for spreading to people down the line is huge - as we've seen. (and they spread to 4 friends, and they spread to 4 friends, and so on and so on and so on). The flu does not have an r0 of 1. an r0 of 1 would mean that statistically there is no increase in cases - as one recovers one gets it. The flu is actually around 1.3 on average (the r0 of any virus changes as time goes on - it is a moving target as more become immune) and the WHO (which has overblown everything to date), says that Covid 19 is between 1.4 and 2.5. SARS was stated at points to be 2.0. https://www.worldome...onavirus/#repro To put that in perspective, the measles is 12-18. https://pubmed.ncbi....h.gov/28757186/ Where do you get "as high as 5.6"? Never seen that number, as even the WHO initially had it at 1.5 - 3.5. I am sure there is some publication out there that claims such a high r0, as there seems to be many publications coming out of the woodwork with scary numbers and information that do not end up coming to fruition, but the CDC and WHO does not say 5.6. You say " For the most part flu isn't communacable [sic] until symptoms appear in the carrier." This is quite incorrect. https://www.cdc.gov/...ease/spread.htm Click the link and educate yourself on the flu. It is absolutely contagious before symptoms show up: Symptoms can begin about 2 days (but can range from 1 to 4 days) after the virus enters the body. That means that you may be able to pass on the flu to someone else before you know you are sick, as well as while you are sick. Some people can be infected with the flu virus but have no symptoms. During this time, those people may still spread the virus to others. Sound familiar? Yes, the flu is transmitted before symptoms, and yes people are asymptomatic with the flu and still pass it on (sound familiar?) Now, let's go back to your r0 value of 5.6, I'll even say just use your 4.0 if you want, although that is not a valid number, but rather one you pulled from the old top range estimates to instill more fear in people here, have you done the math on that 4.0 number? The mean incubation period is 4.5 days according to the CDC: https://www.cdc.gov/...oV-2 infection. So have you done the math on you r0=4.0 number based on the incubation period? Let's start at KNOWN cases of 200,000 on April 1st - I will even give you the benefit of the doubt HUGELY in saying the 200,000 cases in the US represents not just cases confirmed, but ALL cases (it doesn't, so this is a huge gift to you on this demonstration). based on that info, using your r0 = 4.0 and incubation period 4.5 days average, how many people in the US should have it now?

There's over 4000 confirmed cases in 49 states. It's definitely here and certainly should be a concern but it's not time for a full on panic yet. They're taking the proper measures I believe in the limitations they've made in my state when it comes to big get togethers. It's gonna be different for a while but we'll get back to some normalcy soon enough. I think people are overreacting over here actually. At least it doesn't make total sense why everything's shutting down indefinitely for this one, but Swine Flu and Bird Flu and Sars and Ebola and ever other major health scare of the past 20 years didn't have half this effect. But oh well, people overreacting is probably what will keep the US from winding up like China in this mess... I don't think history is going to be particularly kind to this post. It wasn't, you're right. Mostly because all my optimism has been proven wrong by the numbers that stacked up since then. I should've stayed scared when I first heard about it ripping through China in late January, might've made a point of actually saying goodbye to more classmates I still won't be seeing again for months, and some indefinitely. I haven't lost anyone to the virus and I don't know anyone personally who's got it, but I'm sure as heck that if we'd all stayed at our normal lives and normal paces those numbers wouldn't begin to compare to what the flu does every year....they'd be much much worse...I still can't imagine what China's real numbers must look like... Nobody has been completely right about everything. Many have been wrong about many things. My sister-in-law and a couple of cousins are nurses in Florida and Norway and have been treating covid-19 patients. So the threat has been pretty close to me personally. As they're in the thick of it, hearing their points of view and their work experiences weigh a lot more than many news broadcasts, folks' conspiracy theories, and politicians' pissings. And today marks the end of my telework as tonight the State of Emergency for Osaka prefecture is supposed to be made official. Tomorrow's trains to work should be well packed (think literal 'sardine can'), and yeah I'm not too confident that it's safe...because in almost all likelihood, it's not. I can't say that I'm scared or have been at any point. 'Numb' is probably a better word. http://youtu.be/gRfgpuPNMPk Take it easy, EP. I prefer "Grace Under Pressure." Yes! I know lots of stuff too on my end. My test came from a reliable lab, but still, it could all be a horror show. There are many strains and shite. Who knows?????? All I know is that I will respect protocol and take care of myself. I'm glad I didn't have Covid in Feb. But if that test is wrong and I did, well I survived and I have been healthy as a horse ever since! So fuckk it. One day at a time. Casinos are opening up here this month. I'm going to meet me woman hopefully next month. Napa is opening restaurants. RUSH ON!!!! Have you got the results yet Earl? Pat!! I do apologize! I thought I posted my results here last night. I got my results back from Labcorp yesterday. You were right all along Pat. Capt Tripps! That's me! I really thought I had Covid back in early Feb. it was just a really bad flu. I wanted to die Pat. I am sure many Rushhead Haters wish I was dead. I'm still six feet up. Not down mutherfuckkers. Pat! I tested negative for the Covid antibodies. So I was worried about nothing. Cheers Mate! Mind you the virus isn't always present in your nose or throat, as long as it's attached to the ACE2 enzyme it could be there usually in the lungs. So it could be a false negative, but hopefully not. Antibodies are in the blood - he was tested for antibodies, not the virus itself.

I'd argue that this virus is significantly more deadly than any other thing. Even if you don't want to say 80,000 dead in the US because of inflated numbers. I'll be generous and cut that in half. So 40,000 dead in 2 months. Houston, we have a problem. The number of increased deaths is undeniable. They are burying people in mass graves in NYC, because so many are dying. So many more than normal. What's the cause of all that death? The media shoving it down our throats? It's real buddy. And the solution isn't as simple as some guy afraid of dying staying home. Staying home is also supposed to SLOW THE VIRUS DOWN, so that it has a reduced chance to spread to the vulnerable. Until there are vaccines and treatments. People are really showing their selfish, true colors with this thing. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But people are dying because of it. And yeah, I look forward to the day that we can safely have beer together. I'll buy the first round. No shit it's real, buddy. So is the flu. Do you react like this every year when the flu comes around and kills up to 60,000- 65,000 people? No? Why not? It's a real question you should ask yourself. You almost seem militant to anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and want to seal themselves in a cave and not come out until a vaccine is ready. That is your choice to do that. Seal yourself in. Many of the rest of us are ready to get back to normal life and would rather "take the risk". Keep yourself sealed in - and people who feel they are at risk - stay in hiding. The opening of businesses and regular life that you are so against does not affect you because you are hunkering down until there is a vaccine or the virus goes away through herd immunity. So my going out won't affect you at all. In fact you should want people to all go out while you don't and then the 60-70% herd immunity will happen for you. Maybe you are the one who is selfish, not the ones willing to "take a chance" and who want to get the economic engine of this country running again. Militant? Strong willed is more like it. I'm not being selfish by understanding the nature of the virus, understanding that it's a killer, and not wanting to be one who'd infect someone else with it. When you're taking that risk, you're not just taking that risk for yourself. You are taking that risk for everyone down the line who you'd infect. Remember that. I do notice though that no one ever directly answers the question about what lives are worth. Then you could apply that to the flu or any "dangerous thing" like driving, no? Do you drive? How can you do that when you might kill someone? I mean 38,000 lives lost every year just in the US, 1.3 million world wide. Don't you care about people? Just one life saved... How can you ever go out in the flu season again? I mean you might have it and give it to someone who is going to a nursing home to visit their mother or grandmother! Give me a f***ing break. Again - if YOU are not going out then YOU can't get the virus right? Seriously, stay the f**k indoors and away from people if you want. That is your choice. Let's talk about risk vs impact then. One of us could slip in the shower and break our necks. There's risk in everything. In that case, it would just be our necks. The death would stop there. Limited exposure. Or we could get in the car and kill ourselves or someone else. Any number of ways. Again, pretty limited exposure as tragic as it is. Nobody else outside that small circle will be impacted. The Flu. Infectious. We pass it along and the R0 is usually 1 or less. It sucks, but that's the nature of the typical flu virus. So more exposure and chance of death than the singleton events above. Fortunately we as humans have some protection in built up immunity and mostly effective vaccines. For the most part flu isn't communacable until symptoms appear in the carrier. So smart people who are sick with the flu stay home, heal up, and as a net effect limit spread to he next person. 30 something thousand dead in a year sucks, but without vaccines and immunity would be a lot worse..... like it was in the past before modern medical science and vaccines were developed for the common flu strains. Which leads us to the COVID situation: COVID 19. R0 of as high as 5.6. No built up immunity thus far. No working vaccines or treatments. High mortality rate. That R0 means that one person can potentially infect more than 5 new people. That would be ASYMPTOMATIC spread. Spreaders may not know they have it. So they just go to the beach and the bar, catch it, and spread it unaware that it's happening. Risk potential for spreading to people down the line is huge - as we've seen. We're up to 90,000 dead from COVID/related. In the US, in less than 3 months. Some would say that number is inflated. OK. let's roll with that. How inflated? Let's try to assign some percentages or values to the 'inflation categories' then come back to a 'real' COVID number. What % of the number is outright bullshit? Sources? What % of the number is medicare 'bonus' inflation? Sources? What % of the number are retroactive and thus suspect? Sources? Other categories of inaccuracy? Type. %, Hard soruce. Type. %, Hard soruce. When we have that we can then talk about 90K being an inaccurate number. I agree that the number might be inaccurate it plausable. My question is why and by how much. I certainly wouldn't want to minimize the real number of dead with hersay and gut feelings. With the motivation of slanting that number to make it appear that the virus isn't as impactful as it really is. So if we're going to say that the number isn't real, why isn't it real? Thank God people like you can't impose your will against people like me, at least not in my country. While you are sitting in your bunker running the numbers, I'll be out to dinner with my wife tonight for the first time in 10 weeks :) Go live your life in fear. I'll be enjoying my life and feeling sorry for people like you. By the way, how are the Wisconsin numbers since they opened up? Must be tens of thousands new cases daily by now with people dying in the streets right? And in Georgia, Florida, etc right? Must be like the apocalypse in those states by now. At what point do you admit that the lock down and "stay at home" orders and closure of business and all this horseshit isn't doing what you claim? :cheers:

I'd argue that this virus is significantly more deadly than any other thing. Even if you don't want to say 80,000 dead in the US because of inflated numbers. I'll be generous and cut that in half. So 40,000 dead in 2 months. Houston, we have a problem. The number of increased deaths is undeniable. They are burying people in mass graves in NYC, because so many are dying. So many more than normal. What's the cause of all that death? The media shoving it down our throats? It's real buddy. And the solution isn't as simple as some guy afraid of dying staying home. Staying home is also supposed to SLOW THE VIRUS DOWN, so that it has a reduced chance to spread to the vulnerable. Until there are vaccines and treatments. People are really showing their selfish, true colors with this thing. Normally I wouldn't give a shit. But people are dying because of it. And yeah, I look forward to the day that we can safely have beer together. I'll buy the first round. No shit it's real, buddy. So is the flu. Do you react like this every year when the flu comes around and kills up to 60,000- 65,000 people? No? Why not? It's a real question you should ask yourself. You almost seem militant to anyone who doesn't completely agree with you and want to seal themselves in a cave and not come out until a vaccine is ready. That is your choice to do that. Seal yourself in. Many of the rest of us are ready to get back to normal life and would rather "take the risk". Keep yourself sealed in - and people who feel they are at risk - stay in hiding. The opening of businesses and regular life that you are so against does not affect you because you are hunkering down until there is a vaccine or the virus goes away through herd immunity. So my going out won't affect you at all. In fact you should want people to all go out while you don't and then the 60-70% herd immunity will happen for you. Maybe you are the one who is selfish, not the ones willing to "take a chance" and who want to get the economic engine of this country running again. Militant? Strong willed is more like it. I'm not being selfish by understanding the nature of the virus, understanding that it's a killer, and not wanting to be one who'd infect someone else with it. When you're taking that risk, you're not just taking that risk for yourself. You are taking that risk for everyone down the line who you'd infect. Remember that. I do notice though that no one ever directly answers the question about what lives are worth. Then you could apply that to the flu or any "dangerous thing" like driving, no? Do you drive? How can you do that when you might kill someone? I mean 38,000 lives lost every year just in the US, 1.3 million world wide. Don't you care about people? Just one life saved... How can you ever go out in the flu season again? I mean you might have it and give it to someone who is going to a nursing home to visit their mother or grandmother! Give me a f***ing break. Again - if YOU are not going out then YOU can't get the virus right? Seriously, stay the f**k indoors and away from people if you want. That is your choice.

While they may be over counting deaths, there are also under-counted deaths because people who die from it at home and were not tested do not count as covid 19 deaths. It's impossible to tell if the actual number of deaths is higher or lower than the given numbers. I just have to revisit this... So you think that people are dying at home of a respiratory illness in the midst of this very widely known pandemic and medical examiners and coroners are not performing a simply Covid-19 blood test during the autopsy to see why they died? I just want to make sure I am understanding you correctly on this. There is a thread about it.http://www.therushfo...rus-fatalities/ No, I'm not asking you for a thread or some article you read or anything. I am asking You if you believe that people are dying in their homes from respiratory illness and the medical examiner and coroners are not testing them for Covid 19. Do you believe that? Does that really make sense to you? That in the middle of a respiratory illness pandemic, people dying in their homes who didn't go to the doctor even though they were ill, are not tested for something like Covid 19 when the reason for death is unknown?