vespa2112

QUOTE (canadianice @ Jul 13 2012, 01:35 PM) QUOTE (vespa2112 @ Jul 13 2012, 01:05 PM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 13 2012, 10:53 AM)At about 2:26, Neil's fill is way too low in the mix. That fill should be in your face. Not to mention the high toms sound like he is hitting thick books. The low toms again suffer from lows that sound like they are coming from a car's subwoofer across the street...very muddy. Haha... EXACTLY!!! Although when I listen, I picture Neil hitting cardboard boxes for the toms. Seriously... you would think the GREATEST LIVING DRUMMER would like his drums to sound like drums on a major CD release - not wet paper bags, cardboard, or thick books. WTF ? Perhaps they will re-record it with you on drums---Give me a friggin break Huh?

QUOTE (ReflectedLight @ Jul 13 2012, 01:11 PM) QUOTE (vespa2112 @ Jul 13 2012, 01:05 PM) QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 13 2012, 10:53 AM)At about 2:26, Neil's fill is way too low in the mix. That fill should be in your face. Not to mention the high toms sound like he is hitting thick books. The low toms again suffer from lows that sound like they are coming from a car's subwoofer across the street...very muddy. Haha... EXACTLY!!! Although when I listen, I picture Neil hitting cardboard boxes for the toms. Seriously... you would think the GREATEST LIVING DRUMMER would like his drums to sound like drums on a major CD release - not wet paper bags, cardboard, or thick books. WTF ? ok count me in as one of the people who can't hear wet paper bags but a f*cking rocking tune and one of the heavier tunes rush has done. pay no attention to the man behind the curtain. I DOES f*ing rock, it's insane how much I love this whole album. I love every song, and they grow each day on me even more. I can't believe these guys are still making incredible music, rocking this f*ing hard, and they are as old as they are... Its too bad the CD was mastered the way it was and makes it sound so shitty.

QUOTE (Gompers @ Jul 13 2012, 10:53 AM)At about 2:26, Neil's fill is way too low in the mix. That fill should be in your face. Not to mention the high toms sound like he is hitting thick books. The low toms again suffer from lows that sound like they are coming from a car's subwoofer across the street...very muddy. Haha... EXACTLY!!! Although when I listen, I picture Neil hitting cardboard boxes for the toms. Seriously... you would think the GREATEST LIVING DRUMMER would like his drums to sound like drums on a major CD release - not wet paper bags, cardboard, or thick books. WTF ?

This whole thread is about the listenability of the CD version... http://www.therushforum.com/index.php?showtopic=75220&st=0 We were wondering (and praying) if a vinyl version would be better. What kind of equipment are you using? Pro? Semi Pro? You don't get that mushy in yo face sound from the vinyl? You can actually separate the instruments?

If anyone REALLY wants to get technical about it, this is a great read. They even mention about remastering all the Rush catalog. http://arstechnica.com/apple/2012/04/does-...it-to-the-test/

QUOTE (vespa2112 @ Jun 22 2012, 01:52 PM)I just found this quote from Marketwire.com: ""CLOCKWORK ANGELS" has been mastered specifically for iTunes format in mind, ensuring the delivery of the music to listeners with increased audio fidelity, more closely replicating what the artists, recording engineers, and producers intended. " Are they f-ing serious? http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/ru...ong-1648190.htm Ok, in response to "[CA] has been mastered specifically for iTunes format in mind" The exact U.S. figures were a total of 104,707 units sold with LP (Vinyl) sales of 2,361, CD sales of 72,007, and digital sales of 30,339. Canadian sales numbers were 19,625 units sold with LP (Vinyl) sales of 367, CD sales of 14,311, and digital sales of 4,947. (sidebar note: WTF is wrong with Canada? Still have Bieber Fever?) Digital: 35286 / Non Digital: 124332 So this means it was specifically mastered for less than 40% of the people who bought it. And who makes that decision?

From part II of the Geddy Lee / Billy Corgan interview. Specifically the part about Loudness Wars Let's talk about the sonic choices you have to make these days when recording an album, and really this goes into the mastering. Both of your albums have great dynamic range, something that is missing from a lot of music now that people are mastering for digital downloads. Geddy Lee: "Yeah, mastering is a dangerous thing. You know, you go through the history of music, and mastering was a supposed to be a way to get your music onto vinyl without [the needle] skipping. And then the role of the mastering engineer took on such a distorted sense of importance. As music turned to digital and suddenly you had the possibility to make things louder than loudest, which boggles the mind but it's true, and what you have are all kinds of different ways of distorting your music. "Then it becomes a game of 'this person's record is this loud,' so how can I possibly produce a record that is not that loud and actually has dynamics? It's a fight. It's a battle between record company, between producer and between mastering engineer. Because the louder you make your record in a digital process, the more dynamics are squished out of it. Nobody knows exactly what happens, but the dynamics in the performance disappear, and everything is at the same volume. "With us, it's always a matter of compromise. We say, 'Yeah, you can make it loud, but at the point where I feel the dynamics are going away, then stop. Stop making it loud.' [laughs] But you know, it's a strange, strange part of the process now."

Maybe we'll learn something in part II of the interview with Geddy and Billy Corgan at Music Radar. "In the upcoming Part Two, Lee and Corgan discuss the mastering 'loudness wars,' concept albums, the importance of jamming and their signature vocal styles."

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Jun 22 2012, 02:39 PM) Her's an image from the Loudness Wars site depicting the dynamic ranges of various albums over the past 40 years. Green is good, red is bad obviously. And check out where CA appears on the DR chart. Note that vinyl version looks MUCH more promising. http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/index.php?search_artist=Rush

I just dont get it. Modern engineers don't listen to any older recordings from over 15 years ago and say "man... that sure sounds nice and punchy"? They have to realize what they are doing. Does the band not have a choice in the matter due to record companies wanting to only put out cd's that are within some range to make them louder. I could see that being the answer with larger companies like Atlantic, but Roadrunner Records? I just found this quote from Marketwire.com: ""CLOCKWORK ANGELS" has been mastered specifically for iTunes format in mind, ensuring the delivery of the music to listeners with increased audio fidelity, more closely replicating what the artists, recording engineers, and producers intended. " Are they f-ing serious? http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/ru...ong-1648190.htm

Can we get someone who has CA on vinyl (or any of their albums in the last 10 year on vinyl) to chime in on this subject? I have read that the mastering is different due to the different media formats making the vinyl version actually sound more dynamic. Is this true?

Interesting!!! The Loudness War "When there is no quiet, there can be no loud".... excellent quote.

How I came to the same realization. I was listening and really enjoying CA for the 20th time or so the other day. And and was trying to figure out what was wrong. I love the songs, all of them... but there was this "something" that I couldnt figure out. Was it just my favorite band getting older and not writing great songs like they used to and I am just subconsciously making myself like the songs? So I threw in Hemispheres for about 10 minutes and really listened to each instrument. Then I threw CA back in. And I literally said to myself, NO, this is Rush, these are my boys still being Rush. Clockwork Angels is most definitely Rush, no mistake. Its all there. But its that sound. What the hell is that sound?!?!?! Usually, I can listen to any Rush song three times in a row; 1) listen to drums, 2)listen to bass, 3) listen to guitar. So I tried listening to the drums to learn the parts in my head, visualize Neil playing, etc...and found it just so hard. I couldn't separate it from the rest of the noise. I agree with what other said, did someone not have the balls to say "Hey, this is noisy, can we get some clarity here?" I imagine, they have some pretty good equipment on hand when mixing and mastering. If Nick is such the super-fan, then WTF? If someone gets a meet-n-greet chance this year, can they ask the guys, please? Seriously. I cannot remember the last one that sounded good, maybe Counterparts, i'd have to go back and listen. My second all time favorite band, Shellac (Steve Albini guitar/engineer extraordinaire) SWEARS off digital. They only record analog. And their music, a LOUD three piece band, sounds insanely incredible on CD/LP. Bands all over the world are knocking down this guys door to have him record their music. Look him up, he has recorded everyone from Jimmy Page to The Pixies to Nirvana and a million independent bands between. Have him record the next Rush record and it would sound, sonically, like it was the 70's again. And if you think thats a bad thing, then you have not listened to enough music.

QUOTE (Rushman14 @ Jun 20 2012, 12:26 PM)QUOTE (Two0neOneTwo @ Jun 20 2012, 08:37 AM) I mean seriously, they obviously listened to this thing a million times before the release. Did NO ONE say, "Hey, thats kinda noisy isn't it?" No one?? right? I've asked myself this question 100 times. OMG OMG OMG... I thought I was the crazy one. Thank you all for dragging the words out of me that I could not form in my head after I listened to CA.