Recording Drums Live

[rushfanNlv]

I'm using a Fostex MR8 HD/CD digital multitrack with 4 inputs. As it stands now, in a live rehearsal situation, the drums take up three of the four inputs: two from his PA (which we are using as a mixer) and one from the overhead condenser mic. That leaves me, the other guitarist and the singer all on one track of the MR8 with all three inputs mixed down to one through my old four track. We can overdub as much as we want but I'm trying to capture the live feel.

 

I want to get the drums down to two tracks. I'm looking for a mixer with at least 8 mic inputs and phantom power. What do you guys use to mix your drums down to two stereo tracks? Cyg...Launch...I know this is your area here so if you have any input, I would really appreciate it.

 

I'm currently looking at this one from Carvin. The price is right and it has all the inputs I need. I'm just wondering if there is another mixer out there more suited for drums.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

That should work for you. I have used Carvin mixers before and they are pretty clean, but that was at least 20 years ago. Make sure to do some level/mix tests before doing any actual tracking. When recording a premix you are stuck with what you get.

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Sep 1 2008, 07:33 PM)

That should work for you. I have used Carvin mixers before and they are pretty clean, but that was at least 20 years ago. Make sure to do some level/mix tests before doing any actual tracking. When recording a premix you are stuck with what you get.

Cool, thanks. It's all pretty much one big test at the moment. We are all learning as we do it but we're having a lot of fun doing so. We're just recording little jams and certain songs we do with a singer to see how it sounds and what needs improvement. There is a little ditty on my soundclick page called "porno music" that is the result of our first try. I'm pretty happy with it all things considered.

[Gompers]

If you ever get the opportunity to record drums alone, place a mic or two across the room as well. It really adds a nice natural room effect.

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (Gompers @ Sep 2 2008, 04:19 AM)

If you ever get the opportunity to record drums alone, place a mic or two across the room as well. It really adds a nice natural room effect.

Thanks for the tip. If we ever get the chance, we will try that for sure. Right now it's "pack all of us in to our drummers living room and jam" but that may change in the future. We're not a serious band, we all have day jobs. We just like to jam and want to get some of the stuff recorded.

[launchpad67a]

Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer?

1) Run all your drums into it

2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2

3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part.

4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part.

 

Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song.

Understand this method?

 

5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording.

 

Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room.

This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources.

Edited September 3, 2008 by launchpad67a

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 3 2008, 08:18 AM)

Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer? 1) Run all your drums into it 2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2 3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part. 4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part. Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song. Understand this method? 5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording. Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room. This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources.

I understand what you are saying and to an extent, that is sort of what we are doing right now with the exception of we are recording everything live (but that is about to change). We are using the PA as a submixer but the drummer has too many mics. The PA has four mic inputs and he is using eight mics. To get around this, he is using another little PA for the remaining four mics. That gives us the inputs on one & two and then on top of all that, there is the overhead mic which requires phantom power.

 

Great advice to man, thanks. If we get his drum tracks recorded over the weekend, then I can take the recorder home and work on the guitar and bass tracks as much as I want over the week.

[D-13]

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Sep 4 2008, 09:01 AM)

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 3 2008, 08:18 AM) Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer? 1) Run all your drums into it 2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2 3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part. 4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part. Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song. Understand this method? 5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording. Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room. This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources. I understand what you are saying and to an extent, that is sort of what we are doing right now with the exception of we are recording everything live (but that is about to change). We are using the PA as a submixer but the drummer has too many mics. The PA has four mic inputs and he is using eight mics. To get around this, he is using another little PA for the remaining four mics. That gives us the inputs on one & two and then on top of all that, there is the overhead mic which requires phantom power.   Great advice to man, thanks. If we get his drum tracks recorded over the weekend, then I can take the recorder home and work on the guitar and bass tracks as much as I want over the week. Go John Bonham and only have 3 mics. hehe   How many drums does this guy have?

[D-13]

Oh shit...I should learn and read.

 

8 inputs... I'm sure you can sacrifice a couple here and there. Still that won't help you anyways...

try what Launch said.

[Gompers]

QUOTE (D-13 @ Sep 4 2008, 11:13 AM)

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Sep 4 2008, 09:01 AM) QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 3 2008, 08:18 AM) Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer? 1) Run all your drums into it 2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2 3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part. 4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part. Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song. Understand this method? 5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording. Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room. This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources. I understand what you are saying and to an extent, that is sort of what we are doing right now with the exception of we are recording everything live (but that is about to change). We are using the PA as a submixer but the drummer has too many mics. The PA has four mic inputs and he is using eight mics. To get around this, he is using another little PA for the remaining four mics. That gives us the inputs on one & two and then on top of all that, there is the overhead mic which requires phantom power.   Great advice to man, thanks. If we get his drum tracks recorded over the weekend, then I can take the recorder home and work on the guitar and bass tracks as much as I want over the week. Go John Bonham and only have 3 mics. hehe   How many drums does this guy have? It's all about achieving that sound you want from your drums on the recording.

[launchpad67a]

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Sep 4 2008, 08:01 AM)

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 3 2008, 08:18 AM) Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer? 1) Run all your drums into it 2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2 3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part. 4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part. Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song. Understand this method? 5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording. Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room. This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources. I understand what you are saying and to an extent, that is sort of what we are doing right now with the exception of we are recording everything live (but that is about to change). We are using the PA as a submixer but the drummer has too many mics. The PA has four mic inputs and he is using eight mics. To get around this, he is using another little PA for the remaining four mics. That gives us the inputs on one & two and then on top of all that, there is the overhead mic which requires phantom power.   Great advice to man, thanks. If we get his drum tracks recorded over the weekend, then I can take the recorder home and work on the guitar and bass tracks as much as I want over the week. Ok, so you have 2 - 4 channel pa mixers right? Well then run 4 drum mics into one of them and pan all channels to the left, then take the Left Main Out from that mixer and run it into a channel on the second mixer. Now plug in 3 more mics to that second mixer. This gives you a total of 7 drum mic channels. Now you can run the Main L&R Outs from the second mixer right into your recorder track 1-2. Nightmare setup but it will do what you need.   Actually now that I think about it this is what you should try. *Record 4 drum tracks at once into your recorder Track 1 - Kick Track 2 - Snare Track 3 - Submixed Toms (using the pa mixers) Track 4 - Overhead   After your happy with the recorded drum sounds then mix them and dump all 4 channels down to tracks 7-8. This way at least you can get the kick and snare sounding right without submixing everything into 2 tracks right away. Know what I mean?

Edited September 4, 2008 by launchpad67a

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 4 2008, 07:39 AM)

QUOTE (rushfanNlv @ Sep 4 2008, 08:01 AM) QUOTE (launchpad67a @ Sep 3 2008, 08:18 AM) Why don't you use that PA mixer as the drum submixer? 1) Run all your drums into it 2) Take the 2 main outs and run them into your recorder tracks 1-2 3) Plug a guitar into track 3 and record it as a "scratch track" when the drummer lays down his part. 4) Plug a mic into track 4 and record a "scratch vocal" while the drummer records his part. Now the drums are completely recorded onto tracks 1-2 with a scratch guitar and vocal that the rest of the band uses to finish the song. Understand this method? 5) Now you can record all the other parts seperately, one at a time by listening to the drum tracks and scratch tracks. When you have a good guitar track and bass track recorded then you can erase the scratch guitar and vocal tracks to free-up those tracks for recording. Plus with this method you will get No Bleed onto the drum mics from any other instruments in the room. This is exactly how I would do it if I only had your limited resources. I understand what you are saying and to an extent, that is sort of what we are doing right now with the exception of we are recording everything live (but that is about to change). We are using the PA as a submixer but the drummer has too many mics. The PA has four mic inputs and he is using eight mics. To get around this, he is using another little PA for the remaining four mics. That gives us the inputs on one & two and then on top of all that, there is the overhead mic which requires phantom power.   Great advice to man, thanks. If we get his drum tracks recorded over the weekend, then I can take the recorder home and work on the guitar and bass tracks as much as I want over the week. Ok, so you have 2 - 4 channel pa mixers right? Well then run 4 drum mics into one of them and pan all channels to the left, then take the Left Main Out from that mixer and run it into a channel on the second mixer. Now plug in 3 more mics to that second mixer. This gives you a total of 7 drum mic channels. Now you can run the Main L&R Outs from the second mixer right into your recorder track 1-2. Nightmare setup but it will do what you need.   Actually now that I think about it this is what you should try. *Record 4 drum tracks at once into your recorder Track 1 - Kick Track 2 - Snare Track 3 - Submixed Toms (using the pa mixers) Track 4 - Overhead   After your happy with the recorded drum sounds then mix them and dump all 4 channels down to tracks 7-8. This way at least you can get the kick and snare sounding right without submixing everything into 2 tracks right away. Know what I mean? I do know what you mean a nd again, that is a great idea. That is really how we should be doing things. Let the drummer get his tracks down and then we'll have all of the additional tracks for guitars, bass and vocals. Also, we'll be able to use the equipment we have now and not spend the 3 bills on a new mixer.

[CygnusX-1Bk2]

I figured that's what you were planning on doing. What I take for granted...

[rushfanNlv]

QUOTE (CygnusX-1Bk2 @ Sep 5 2008, 10:30 AM)

I figured that's what you were planning on doing. What I take for granted...

That's what I want to do but the rest of the band is bent on recording our live rehearsals. We do get into some really great jams and we have 4 or 5 instrumentals that we do in each practice that are the same but different each time, and that would be cool to get on disc but I want to get more serious about it.