currygoat11

Reviving an old topic, not sure if this was discussed??  I tried searching but couldn't find....  anyway...

The point is that "2112" from Hemispheres 40th Anniversary, as advertised on Rush Backstage Club link where is says:

"LP 3 – SIDE F
Live in Arizona – November 20, 1978
1. 2112*"

this is surely incorrect -- the recording of 2112 certainly appears to be taken from the May 28, 1979 Stadhalle, Offenbach, Germany performance

and as mentioned above, this version on Hemispheres 40th Anniversary plays back a little slow which is unfortunate.

I hope Alex feels better soon!!

Oh boy, it doesn't appear he's selling autographed books at the event.. 

Now it's very possible there was some kind of minor mistake, and the audio was attempted to be repaired, but they made (another) mistake (?);

speaking of fixing mistakes, like on Different Stages on Xanadu live, where they covered up Neil's dropped drumstick on Different Stages, but once we got the same recording on A Farewell to Kings 40th, the mistake was instead preserved.

This post is ridiculously inconsequential.

In Jacob's Ladder (Live In Missouri, 1980) from the Permanent Waves 40th anniversary, after the quiet synths section, why does the 6/7 guitar arpeggio section actually start off in 6/7, then inexplicably shift to 6/6 just one time right when the china symbol comes in? It's supposed to be in 6/7 throughout there..  what happened?  Or more importantly why do I care?!?! LOL I don't care, just thought it was completely weird. Here I've linked to the exact moment below..

My main takeaway I think is that, his departure from the band wasn't exclusively because of future concerns of managing diabetes and rock 'n roll antics on the road. His current sidelining due to illness and how diabetes can affect your mood also was a factor. Plus musical differences which John himself calls out.

Illness

Diabetes can make you feel like crap; he was ill for months in 1974:

Quote

"In 1974, John got ill and missed out a few months of gigs. We had a sub drummer, Jerry Fielding, a very sweet guy. And then John came back for a month of club shows. It was the best of times. We had so much fun together. But that was it for John. It was sad."

- Alex link

Quote

"When we got to the point that the decision had to be made, we'd already thought about getting a new drummer for the past year. John was aware of it -- he was very sick at the time -- but after we tried another drummer, we said to him 'It's not working out. Do you think you can get it together?'

"We managed to work for another year, but in the end there was no point because we weren't really getting along very well. Musically, Geddy and I wanted to do a lot of different things and he wasn't really into the idea. He wanted to go into more of a straight ahead rock thing, like Bad Company, I guess."

- Alex link

Mood:

Diabetes can affect your mood dramatically..

Quote

"I was just very confused about what I wanted to do ... My mood would change from day to day"

- John talking about the ripped up lyrics link only viewable if you 'View Page Source'

Quote

"John was not the easiest person to get along with; he was quite moody at times and I think he expected a lot from his friends. "

- Alex link

Quote

"but would get into these moods where he hated you for some reason all of a sudden, and would have nothing to do with you.".... I know, it was difficult. Suddenly, one day he would call and say, "Hey, what's going on?" – like nothing happened. He was a very moody, weird guy in that way.

- Alex link

Quote

"John was an odd gentleman. A difficult person, in the sense that he had a hard time dealing with himself. He was not a happy guy, and had demons that he wrestled with."

- Geddy link

Musical differences

We've all heard quotes from Alex and Geddy, but straight from John:

Quote

"I was into a sound very much like that of Bad Company," says John. "At the time, Alex and Geddy envisioned the band going into other areas. I also just wasn't enjoying it any more, and that's just the first tell-tale sign. I wasn't looking forward to it.

John - " link  only viewable if you 'View Page Source'

This is something I have never read. For some reason this web page doesn't show the text content, but it's only available if you 'View Page Source'. This is straight from John and then a comment from Alex..

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19880404banasiewiczvisions.htm

Quote

<P>To make matters worse, during the summer of that year John was forced to leave the band through illness. He was also starting to question whether a career in rock music was right for him. Alex and Geddy continued playing with a pick-up drummer, but when John began feeling better they asked him to rejoin. He agreed.</P>

<P>John thought that the lyrics particularly were lacking. "I was going through a real struggle at this time with the band," recalls John. "I said to myself, 'I feel like quitting.' I was just a mixed-up kid and I began writing all sorts of additional lyrics for the songs, because most of the lyrics we had at the time were just whatever rhymed, whatever fitted in, 'cause we never really spent much time at all on the lyrics. So then finally we said, 'We've got to get some decent lyrics. This is silly, just saying whatever pops into your head and then trying to remember it the next night.' So we made a conscious effort and I started writing some lyrics.</P>

<P>"I was really having a hard time with myself and what I wanted to do with the band. I was very mixed up, I'd written a lot of lyrics and then I tore them up and never presented them. So when we went in and did the album all the old lyrics were sung. It's funny, because to this day I still can't remember why I did that. All I can attribute that to was that, at the time, I was just very confused about what I wanted to do. I really regret it because it was an incredibly selfish. stupid thing to do. But when you are young, unfortunately you do things like that. My mood would change from day to day, I had spent a lot of time on them and some of them were decent. Anyway, that's what happened."</P>

<P>Geddy remembered it as a really hectic period, but since everyone was so excited about being in the studio, they were able to summon up the enthusiasm to continue. On occasions they would go in because they just had enough time to record a guitar part or a vocal. Since John never delivered the lyrics, Geddy had to sit down and write the words he had been making up off the top of his head. When the record was finished everyone gathered round to listen. They were not happy with the results.</P>

(then they got Terry Brown..)

<p>With an album out and a tour booked, it might be said that the band had hit the big time. However, they now had months of touring, mainly as the second or third billed act in front of them. This was something John did not want to do. He was unhappy being in a rock band, and there were also arguments about what kind of music they would play. John announced he was leaving Rush again. This time the split would be permanent. With his diabetes a strong argument against touring, the musical and personal differences closed the case.</P>

<P>"I was into a sound very much like that of Bad Company," says John. "At the time, Alex and Geddy envisioned the band going into other areas. I also just wasn't enjoying it any more, and that's just the first tell-tale sign. I wasn't looking forward to it. I could tell I was straining the friendship with the other guys. It's just a hard thing to explain. I've never been able to pin it down accurately myself. I would sort of drift off and spend more time just talking with the roadies. I knew I had to do something. If you can't go out there and enjoy yourself you know it's time to get out."</P>

<P>Alex talked about the musical differences and some of the personal problems involved. "He was into the basic rock thing, and Gedd and I wanted to get a little more progressive. Our relationship was also not the same as it had been. He and I were friends since the age of eight, playing street hockey, but at this point the musical differences were happening and we didn't hang out as much as we used to, outside of working, whereas Geddy and I would hang out together all the time. So it really was a combination of his illness, our musical differences combined with the way we were growing as three people together."</P>

Sorry this continues with more interesting stuff from Alex:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/19850100gettsuccess.htm

Quote

Asked to explain the reason for Rutsey's departure, Alex assesses: "It was weird. I'd actually been friends with John for a long, long time -- since we were about eight or nine years old. John was not the easiest person to get along with; he was quite moody at times and I think he expected a lot from his friends. When we got to the point that the decision had to be made, we'd already thought about getting a new drummer for the past year. John was aware of it -- he was very sick at the time -- but after we tried another drummer, we said to him 'It's not working out. Do you think you can get it together?'

"We managed to work for another year, but in the end there was no point because we weren't really getting along very well. Musically, Geddy and I wanted to do a lot of different things and he wasn't really into the idea. He wanted to go into more of a straight ahead rock thing, like Bad Company, I guess. When we sat down and talked about it, he decided he was going to leave.

And another good reference here from Alex:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/20130400prog.htm

Quote

"John and I met when I was 11," he says. "I moved into the area and he lived across the street from me. We became friends. We played hockey and football and baseball and went to the same school. But John was a very insecure person. He had juvenile diabetes and I remember he never wanted to talk about it. I think he always felt it was a handicap that he had. So he was very complex emotionally.

"He was the greatest guy to be with when he was happy, but he could be so weird too. Honestly, a funnier guy you've never met, charming and engaging. But at other times he was an enigma, and it cost him dearly. He threw away so much.

"In 1974, John got ill and missed out a few months of gigs. We had a sub drummer, Jerry Fielding, a very sweet guy. And then John came back for a month of club shows. It was the best of times. We had so much fun together. But that was it for John. It was sad.

"He might not have said it, but he was very concerned about his diabetes and whether it would be manageable for him on the road. You had to keep insulin refrigerated. And also we were starting to change direction. Ged and I were listening to more progressive music - Yes and Pink Floyd. But John was more of a straight rocker. Our management thought that this could be a potential problem and I think it was Vic Wilson, Ray's business partner, who sat down with John and told him it was over.

I think I found the Alex interview I was thinking about:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/20130513musicradar.htm

Quote

John was a complex kind of guy. He was so funny – he was wonderful to be with – but would get into these moods where he hated you for some reason all of a sudden, and would have nothing to do with you.

Kind of no reason?

Yeah. For a couple of months.

A couple of months?

Yeah. Oh, yeah.

How are you going to be in a band with a guy like that?

I know, it was difficult. Suddenly, one day he would call and say, "Hey, what's going on?" – like nothing happened. He was a very moody, weird guy in that way. He had juvenile diabetes, and I think it had a big influence on his life. I remember, I met him when we were both 10 or 11 years old. We were friends from being kids. There were a lot of those little cycles where he would get like that.

You think maybe it was from the diabetes?

He was very self-conscious about the diabetes. He worried about touring, going away, how would he store his insulin and those sort of things. He didn't want people to know. It was a complex thing with him. I think when it came down to it, he had a very rough year before we got our American deal in 1974 and went on tour. That year, he was very sick. He had issues with his diabetes and other physical issues.

He kind of had enough.

In fact, we had another drummer – Jerry Fielding was his name. He sat in and learned the stuff, and played for a couple months with us while John was recuperating.

I did find this, which is not exactly aligned with my original rememberance, but it's a little close:

http://www.2112.net/powerwindows/transcripts/20150700classicrock.htm

Quote

That album was the only one the band made with drummer John Rutsey, who left Rush in 1974 and was replaced by Neil Peart. It's now seven years since John Rutsey died. How do you remember him?
Geddy: John was an odd gentleman. A difficult person, in the sense that he had a hard time dealing with himself. He was not a happy guy, and had demons that he wrestled with. And when you're that kind of person it's hard for you to deal with other people. There was a lot of conflict and secrecy in the band when John was in it. We couldn't really read him and he didn't really care to share that much with us. And when Alex and I started pushing the music in a new direction, he eventually said: "I can't get behind this." That was the end.

So the reason I'm asking is that my friend was asking me about details, and I wanted to give him an informed response, that's all.

Sorry to bring this up ..

but a year ago, I recollect reading an interview (I think with Alex) where he said in the early days, John Rutsey was kind of unpredictable and wouldn't always return phone calls or (perhaps) show up for practice etc. I'm trying to locate this interview. Does anyone have it?

The Trees/Xanadu -- LOVE IT!

I recognized By-Tor and the Snow-Dog at least.. Darn I wish we had audio-samples synced throughout =)

I saw this on social media  photo

Happy Birthday to you, Geddy!!!!!!

Geddy - please consider meeting up with Rick Beato on his youtube channel for an interview. It would be great!  Maybe bring along Big Al. You guys can bring some beer too =)

I think Rick is based in Atlanta.

Geddy, please do a book tour. It would be awesome! Thank you.

On 6/20/2023 at 9:54 PM, Bahamas said:

Interesting video editing but the sound is fantastic

The 8mm footage is video only, the audio is taken from All The World's a Stage. 

I don't recognize it, it doesn't look like a promotional item from the record company, looks homemade... let me know if I'm wrong here..

What does Alex say after Geddy says "I don't know why?" in this George Stroumboulopoulos interview (saying they still feel like outsiders regarding their fame), and afterwards Ged laughs and the crowd cheers?   I can't freaking make it out!?!   Ugh LOL

Time index:

Oof, no live tracks.  

They are certainly putting a great deal of effort and time into these anniversary releases and I appreciate that . I guess they just didn't have any Signals tour recordings, or if they did they were lost, in bad shape, or had serious flaws.

Yeah per this source

"so when we went over to Britain, we recorded about ten dates so we've got about 50 reels of tape sitting around somewhere."

So in June 1980, about 10 shows were recorded. Who knows if all these tapes still exist, we know some do:

of course the Permanent Waves 40th live tracks include Manchester (Jun 17/18) and London (Jun 4-8) + one song from St Louis Kiel Auditorium (Feb 11-13).

(2112 Deluxe Edition also came with A Passage To Bangkok (Manchester Apollo, Manchester, England - June 17, 1980) + it's duplicated on PW 40th)

So with PW 40th anniv + the St. Louis Kiel Auditorium bootleg + side2 of ESL, yes I think we're getting a fair representation of what this live album may have sounded like.

This source from 1981 says it came from Neil:  "Something got into Neil about doing a studio album instead and the more he thought about it, the better the idea seemed. He brought it to us, and Alex and I started getting excited about it."

This one from 202x says the idea came from Cliff Burnstein: "I remember we had played New York, and he came to the gig and we were talking about doing a live album. And he kind of said to us guys, ‘You know, Permanent Waves was so great that maybe you should think about going straight back in the studio to do another record.’ "

[Edit]:  ahh some clarity from this: "Originally it was going to be a live album then somebody put a bug in Neil's ear about maybe we should not do a live album and he got thinking about it and he got real fired up about it and he talked to us and we got real fired up about it and we said "Hey yeah! Let's cancel all our plans and do a studio album" so it was some of the sort of excitement of changing horses in midstream that led to this album being..."

Thank you Cliff and Neil =)