CygnusGal

Listening to Lazy right now. Thank you for your music Jon, it was truly a gift. RIP Jon.

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Jul 16 2012, 11:21 PM)

I just came back from a long trek across the east coast. I have driven from South Florida to New York and I can tell you that CA was with me all the way. It didn't get boring at all. Actually it kept getting better. I noticed you have to watch your speed while listening to Headlong Flight. I remembered Hlo Effect when I noticed a girl with a tattoo of wings on her heals even though she was far from a goddess. Another cool thing was when I listened to Seven Cities of Gold as I went through the Lincoln Tunnel into New York. The Garden in Central Park was pretty spiritual as well. I also remembered the Wreckers as I took a short cruise on a catamaran in Myrtle Beach and watching the breakers roar on the jitney as we went by. Regardless, this album has more to offer than most RUSh albums!

QUOTE (Animate @ Jul 17 2012, 08:46 AM)

Does any one else feel that the line  "The cells tick away" is a reference to the ultimate clock master and time keeper of us all- the biological circadian rythm? Is it an intentional reference to the cellular clock?  Interesting, however,that previous to this reference,  one of Neils most appropriate biological description of all is in Freewill- "Genetic blends, with uncertain ends".  This can be interpreted as a reference to telomeres-  the "uncertain ends" of our chromosomes whose integrity loss results in aging and aging related death. However, the lyrics to Freewill were written before any real knowledge of the structure and function telomeres existed.  Pretty Freakily accurate.

Thanks for the translations HowItIs. Amalgamation. I was thinking augmentation, but that just left too many obvious comedic openings. Starts with A and was additive.

 

And, I realize my #3 should have been "crosses" not "clocks" (guess I just have clocks on the brain lately...wonder why).

 

So on the cover, a balance between Amalgamation on one end, the clockwork is the pitchfork/neptune and angels is the inverse of the garden?

 

Any ideas? The inverse sign is slightly different than the one used for 12 (XII).

 

 

all

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 16 2012, 09:31 PM)

Of course, with the clockface offset, that might mean that Song #1 is BU2B, that Caravan is the LAST song, and all the others are just a St Elsewhere dream sequence...ok, I'll stop there... <snip>

QUOTE (The Owl @ Jul 16 2012, 09:04 PM)

Sorry if this is in the wrong sub-forum, this topic I think could fit in both here and in the tour sub-forum.. ------------------------------------------------------ I was thinking about what Alex could do for the now-traditional post-drum solo acoustic track... and I was thinking the boys could re-work "Halo Effect" into an acoustic set and both Alex and Geddy could come out and do the track on stools... Much in the same way "Resist" was re-worked and performed after the drum solo live on previous tours.  Would this be a good idea, and would it work?

I also think it is interesting that the symbols associated with each song resemble an alchemical-type of feel. I first noticed it on Halo Effect art with song 6 symbol, Seven Cities are with song 7 symbol, The Wreckers with song 8 symbol, etc.

 

Then you can start interpreting the symbols:

 

1- horizontal lines on an X (a solid base)

2- an orthodox cross mounted on eternity (i.e. here's our beliefs in CA universe)

3- that sure is a lot of clocks joined by a circle

4- bombs inverted in gallows(?)

5- tic-tac-toe (games like at a carnival)

6- the sun (a driver of halos)

7- an eye (searching - I really like this one with the sun peering through the arch)

8- two waves (ship-wrecked!)

9- top heavy (shouldn't fly but does, pointed to move up/forward)

10- a pitchfork (the spiritual crisis)

11- an eloquent z (or zed in Canada, eh) suggests elegance or grace

12- a triangle (3 - its the most obvious of any of the symbols, just like the song)

 

Geddy has his symbol on the bass (it means aggregation, I think) and it sponsors the album.

 

The Pedlar has his own symbol too. Don't know what it means....yet... and haven't interpreted the ones I see in a historic sense ....

 

Over come by massive dork wave...can't resist......

 

 

<totally off topic - there is a conspiracy that says Tom Petty actually died in 1976 after recording his first album (released in 1977) and the person we've always known as Tom Petty is really a replacement. I think its been in snopes.com. I'd have to search for the link - I think it was wiki. Utter claptrap, but it takes all kinds...>

The clock doesn't read 21:12 (9:12pm) as the hand position suggest. Given the numbering of the songs and symbol associated with those numbers on the clock, the clock actually reads ~22:17. Huh.... ?

 

Maybe "looks like 21:12" but its not - as in this album isn't what you think it is - was a statement. Perhaps not.

 

Curious.

 

Oh, and if we're going to start a conspiracy thread, let's not forget Tom Petty.

 

QUOTE (USB Connector @ Jul 15 2012, 10:04 PM)

I see where you're coming from and I think it's a great interpretation, but I think you might be confusing some of the details of Candide with CA. In Candide, they find El Dorado and leave with the riches, in CA the protagonist does not find any of the seven cities and narrowly escapes with his life. It is implied that he never had much to begin with as he left a farmer's life to go to the city and tour a little with the carnies.

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 16 2012, 01:52 PM)

Isn't everyone really just upset because the strings come in strong and you're just waiting for Geddy to sing: I wanna go home Take off this uniform and leave the show I'm waiting in this cell because I have to know (have to know) Have I been guilty all this time... C'mon, admit it...

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 16 2012, 08:25 AM)

The interesting thing about the blue arc flashes is that this is a world "lit only by fire": no electricity. But the detonator appears to have an electric current making it work.

Is there a central place to post links to current interviews with individual members?

 

Good interview with Geddy. Of course, they're all good interviews with Geddy.

 

 

 

http://www.thenational.ae/arts-culture/mus...-dont-fade-away

Very hard for me to choose one above another. We all have our preferences and no one is truly "correct" (truth is, after all, so poorly lit).

 

Love Something for Nothing. Love the way CygnusX-1 (!) leads to Hemispheres. La Villa and NatSci leave my jaw on the floor - stunning. Love Vital Signs and Countdown and Mystic Rhythms. Love Available Light.

 

The Garden is in a league of its own.

 

Too soon for me to vote with The Garden in the equation. Without The Garden, I prefer (though did not vote for) CygnusX-1.

 

Currently balancing CygnusX-1 against The Garden...

 

 

<corrected lyric reference>

Thanks for the kind words, LeaveMyThingAlone.

 

I think your analogy is close and some of our peers have been very insightful with some of their comments.

 

I have to admit, though, the Candide reference and my subsequent re-reading have really shifted my view on the overall story arc (makes more sense now, as I presume the novelization of will provide all of the detail). Though I don't believe CA follows the exact narrative of Candide, it draws on similar themes. Otherwise, why not Dante's Inferno or the Book of Job, or some other classic work? The Candide reference is a reference to enduring everything, yet retaining optimism. That is the overarching theme of CA, imo. Optimism.

 

Given optimism, here's my rough view of the narrative - I have no knowledge of the Owen Hardy character or CA novelization, so this is based on my interpretation of the album:

 

1) Caravan: "In a world lit only by fire" - setting up the world.

2) BU2B: "All is for the best" and "In a world where all must fail, Heaven's justice will prevail" - defining the values of the protagonist, and by extension his world view "I always taught to trust".

3) CA: "Clockwork angels promise every prize" - his pilgramige to see his touchstone and describing the reach of the Watchmaker

4) The Anarchist: "the scarlet mist that spills over into rage" see my thread you so kindly reference - represents the evils of the world

5) Carnies: "sometimes the angels punish us by answering our prayers" - life, the carnival that is life, interupted by the Anarchist

6) Halo Effect: "Its shameful to tell how often I fell in love with illusions again" - he realizes the world is full illusion and he falls for the illusions consistently

7) 7 Cities: "A man can lose his life in a country like this" - the eternal human quest for life's next great adventure and the quest for gold and riches, prestige and power and putting it all on the line

8) The Wreckers: "Sometimes the target is you" - not only is there evil in the world but sometimes it targets him specificly and for no particular reason

9) Headlong Flight: "I wish that I could live it all again" - despite his losses, the joy that he received was worth the price

10) BU2B2: "I still choose to live and give, even while I grieve. Though the balance tilts against me, I was brought up to believe." - the deepest song on the album (despite its apparently poor reception) despite all, he still believes everything he ever did - probably more so, in fact

11) WTW: "All that you can do is wish them well" - with the revelation of BU2B2 he can resolve the evil in *his* world (he can't banish evil, obviously) by "Just keep on going, let the demons dwell, just wish them well."

12) The Garden "In this one of many possible worlds, all for the best, or some bizarre test?" - he relates to Candide because it is akin to his story. We don't know how he found out about Candide but we don't know how we found out about the CA timeline either.

 

That's my take in a nutshell, heretical though it may be.

 

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 14 2012, 11:32 PM)

I was flipping through the liner notes earlier and found a few things: The time on the sun dial near The Garden lyrics is showing 1:00 (or pointing to BU2B) - significant? Or, a random point selected by Hugh? The time on a different sun dial near the Caravan lyrics points to Carnies. The sun dial near the Caravan lyrics has the symbols from the Clock on the outside, but also has two more concentric rings with other symbols that I can't quite make out. These are all signs of a deeper hidden message, or it's late and I need to go to bed. Good night!

I sing through the entire show, not very loudly though - as if you could hear me anyway...

 

Will sing during The Garden.

February 24, 1983, Veterans Memorial Coliseum, Phoenix, AZ on the Signals tour. Golden Earring opened - good band. It was my very first concert for any band. My mother dropped off a friend and me and his mother picked us up. We were 15.

 

30 years ago during these very months, I was discovering the catalog through ESL and still couldn't stop playing MP on my Sanyo portable cassette player. "That bass is the coolest sound I've ever heard in my life", I recall thinking. Love at first listen.

 

QUOTE (USB Connector @ Jul 14 2012, 07:05 PM)

I disagree. I feel that Neil drew a lot of inspiration from Candide and added the cynic ending that 2112 had. In Candide they learn their lesson and live much better by tending to their garden. In CA I felt that he had learned the same lesson and tending to his garden was almost a surrender for him. Here's why I see it that way: BU2B: "I was brought up to believe, belief has failed me now". He rejected his beliefs. Wish them Well: He couldn't make the impact he wanted so all he can do is wish everyone well The garden: Basically him saying fine, I couldn't change what I wanted, so leave me alone so I can try to live as happily as possible. That's my interpretation in point form.

QUOTE (Bangster of Goats @ Jul 14 2012, 10:06 AM)

...came out only 4 years after Moving Pictures. For some reason this makes my brain hurt.

Excellent! Thanks for sharing! I've never heard him speak so frankly about his family.

 

QUOTE (spock @ Jul 14 2012, 05:18 PM)

WAAYYY to much music. Or, to my tastes anyway. I bought this for Neil's tasteful banjo playing but apparently it's completely buried in the mix with the stupid guitars, bass, drums, and (sniff) someone had the audacity to play a little cowbell at the beginning of SSOG (might want to fact check the specific song, but I'm 93.67% sure). I blame Nick's mixing. I was expecting brickwalled banjo!

I have not read another thread regarding Candide explicitly. Please forgive me if this discussion is replicated elsewhere (a pointer to said dicussion on this thread would be nice too, if you know of one). Thanks.

 

That being said...

 

I find a few things helpful for me to keep in mind when reading classic works like Candide. 1) Remember the times; Voltaire lived in a time when religion was a (usually the) central aspect of life. This is reflected in thousands of years of literary tradition. The influence of religion on pre-"modern-era" literature is difficult to understate. 2) Voltaire was popular, financially successful and influential partially because the veiled references and satire appealed to a broad base and was therefore interpreted by different readers in different ways. 3) He provides an insight into the times, but it is difficult for a 21th century mind (or 20th, depending on when you first read it) to think like he did. We (well most of us, scholars excepted) don't have reference of events or morays of 1760s France. Interestingly, some of Voltaire's satire holds up quite well today.

 

Neil's reference reaches back in our timeline to our collective consciousness (part of Voltaire's - and Neil's - brilliance) with lost cities and loves, pirates, adventure and philosophical underpinnings, I find the album's narrative to be quite ingenious.

 

Candide first appeared in the 1760s - kind of "Blair Witch"-ish in its origin - as it's quoted as being "translated from the German of Doctor Ralph with the additions which were found in the Doctor's pocket when he died at Minden in the Year of Our Lord 1759". That theme (lost artifact/relic found with a new telling of an old story) appears on the song/album 2112 and the album CA (hence, the 21:12 on the cover I think) where we are given a much more defined world. Instead of a guitar upending a society, presumably in our own future in the year 2112, we are presented with a philosophical debate from a different timeline that is aware our events in our own timeline.

 

To me, Neil has a reputation of being well read, introspective and reflective of current trends in culture and his own philosophical leanings. A fan of many genres, fiction and non-fiction, Neil brings his thoughtful viewpoint to bear when composing lyrics for both the specific songs and the general concept that ties them together and constitutes an album. With CA, Neil composes very much in the tradition of the classic writers. He satirizes, he postulates, he provokes thought. As he references Candide as "...a story from another timeline..." (and like Voltaire in that timeline), Neil hides bits and pieces of his views in the writing (you write what you know), but essentially and ultimately, like Candide, the clockwork universe is a work of fiction.

 

Is it "all for the best" (Candide's assertion which aligns with BU2B) or is it just "some bizarre test"? "It is what it is, and whatever. Time is still the infinite jest" - the CA protagonist answers.

 

Per Candide's view: had person <x> not gone though experience <y>, they wouldn't be the person that they are today ("I wouldn't trade tomorrow for today" says the great prophet Gruber from CA). Indeed, all must be for the best since everything has a purpose and serves that purpose in the best way possible. Candide retained his "all is for the best" philosophy despite the travels and trevails that were visited upon him. I believe the revelation of the garden is the joy of the cultivating/working the soil of one's life- i.e. what Pangloss had been telling him all along was true.

 

As in Candide, I propose that the CA protagonist still believes everything he was BU2B despite BU2B2 and everything that led up to it. In fact, his experiences have only reinforced his beliefs; he does indeed live in the best of all possible worlds and all is for the truly for the best, otherwise he wouldn't be able to tend his garden. Only his perspective has changed. The highs in life are paid for with the cost of the lows.

 

As an aside, and as an intellectual exercise: Presuming *everything* Neil has written since 1997 has been based in anger, grief and loss (a premise with which I do not agree), the CA album through its Candide reference explicitly discredit that conclusion and prove Neil's healing is complete even though his memories remain. IMO, that's how he writes songs like The Anarchist and The Wreckers so well.

 

Kind of a different interpretation than some of my previous posts, but re-reading Candide got me thinking - always dangerous. I find my thoughts on CA continue to evolve.

 

Hopefully, I'm not as Pangloss; taking the maximum number of words to communicate the smallest possible idea. I just can't stop thinking big.

 

QUOTE (treeduck @ Jul 14 2012, 06:52 AM)

QUOTE (snowdogged @ Jul 12 2012, 01:20 AM)

I actually love how trippy this little abbreviation of a song is and think it really is a big part of making this album feel like a concept album. All I've read are people putting it down. Does anyone else like BU2B2?