Mr. Ludwig

Grace Under Pressure

 

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p/g

I have one in perfect condition, somewhere around here.

Geddy basically only used the Taurus' internal synthesis engine to make only two different styles of basslines... If you give me some time I'll give you more information... I'm not at home right now.

Steering this thread back on track... Basically there is no easy way to isolate tracks - and if you are successful, it's probable that you might either: 1) remove a few of the unwanted tracks, but still have a few tracks left that you can't remove; and/or, 2) remove part of the original track itself. There are two ways that I know of that really work for manually isolating tracks: The first is based on editing the positioning and phase in the stereo field to accent or remove tracks, and the 2nd is isolation by equalization.

 

Take this as an example: Simon and Garfunkel's The Sounds of Silence is unique in that it contains the bulk of the drums on the left channel. This presents to us a few unique things we can do with the song. If we remove the left channel and listen to the right channel, and pan the right channel into the center, we get the same song, minus most of the drums. Similarly, if we remove the information panned to the center (easily achievable with a M/S Encoder), and listen to the remaining information (the side), we can eliminate most of the vocals (panned to the center), and place emphasis on the drums, bass, and electric guitar. If we do the opposite -- keep only the middle content of the song, and remove the side -- in the context of this song, it brings out the vocals.

 

So, if we go back to where we extracted just the side information, if we want to "isolate" the drums, we can remove most of the bass guitar by applying equalization. Roll off the bass at ~ 300 Hz, and you've pretty much got the drums isolated, with bass guitar harmonics and part of the electric guitar bleeding through slightly. It isn't pretty, but it works.

 

For another example, Rush's Show Don't Tell contains the 'subliminal' messages (at 1:59 and 2:12) "I will be the judge" and "Give the jury direction". These messages are panned to the center, but the phase of one of the sides is flipped. We can use this to our advantage. If we remove the middle content of the song, leaving us only the side information, we can now very clearly hear these messages, which are recombined back into phase and to our advantage most of the tracks themselves cancelled out as well. Cool eh? This is the exact same method that most karaoke machines use to "magically" remove voices.

 

Keep in mind these are pretty much best-case scenarios. Your mileage will vary. Try out plugins like Waves X-Noise - they can help too.

 

Chris

IMO most entertaining thread on TRF. Agree?

Geddy did use a Korg Wavestation in the early 90's. I like the analog Roland filter, is has this nice spongy, mushy feeling... definitely not surgical, and definitely not digital. I really envy Geddy, and the sounds he had at his disposal. He had many synths that are considered classics. The Oberheim SEM modules (And later generations, the OB1, OBX, etc.), the Minimoog and Taurus, the Jupiter 8, and many of the classic digital ones like the Prophet VS and PPG Wave (digital w/analog filters - so they could just as easily be considered analog)... He must have felt like the king of his castle

Geddy wasn't using any Roland samplers back then... On HYF he started using the Roland D-50/550s which technically are samplers. The only samplers that were used back then were in the digital section of Neil's SDS7, and the PPG Waves were digital samplers with analog filters. On Power Windows the Yamaha DX7 and from Signals to Power Windows the Moog Taurus were also a large part of Geddy's sound.

There was only one Roland synth used on those albums, the Jupiter 8. The 808 does count as a synth, but it was used to trigger the arpeggiator on the Jupiter 8. There's an emulation of the Jupiter 8 called the Jupiter-8V, by Arturia.

I know in pipe band we've tuned up to and over 480. But of course, if the pipe band's playing together with a concert band or military band we might tune it down a bit... so that our A is their A, and not like their B flat.

Which samples are you looking for? I have much of the same equipment he used: Simmons SDS7, Simmons Clap Trap, and most of his current samples that he has from Scars (also used in his solo). BTW, anyone want to sell me some SDS7 cards/EPROMS, or some rack ears for my other SDS7 or TMI, or sell me another MTM? Or for that matter, an SDSV for cheap? Or possibly some more pads? I'm looking for more; just trying to get everything up and running nicely...

 

Though I must say, getting an SDSV for cheap would be a dream. While I'm dreaming, anyone want to donate me an AMS RMX 16? I'm sure someone's got to have one of those lying around at home doing nothing 8-)

 

I'm sure someone with an SDSV hanging around here could get you authentic sounding SDSV sounds as well... The SDS7 can do them, but it only goes about 90% of the way of the original.

Well, for starters, getting a true analog synthesizer is going to cost you a lot more than getting a digital one -- unless you can get a good deal. A keyboard controller with a VSTi/DXi host and some plugs running on a computer will get you much more sounds and flexibility for your buck, plus then you don't have to maintain an analog synthesizer. There are some plugins such as SonicProjects OP-X that attempt to emulate a Oberheim OB-X, and do so very well, except the price difference is that the real thing is many, many, many, many times more expensive. Heck, there's a free VSTi simply called Taurus that faithfully recreates the vintage Moog Taurus I pedals... the exact same kind Rush used. There's direct emulations of almost everything Rush used, from the Minimoog to the Wavestation to the Prophet VS to the PPG Wave to the Jupiter 8 -- and what I also said above. And they're all close enough to be recognized for what they are. For cheapness and a sound that will get you 99% of the way there, I'd go with the controller + host route.

 

Q Q q Q Q q h+Q s s Q Q q Q Q q

1:|-4:-E7-B6-C#7-|-A6-F#6-G#6-|-E6--C#6-B5-|-A5-F#5-E5-|-E7-B6-C#7-|

|-4:-----------|------------|------------|-----------|-----------|

For these, the symbols like Q, q, h, s and such are the note values (quarter note, sixteenth note-triplet, etc.), and the symbols like E7, B6, and C#7 are the actual notes (NOT chords)... in this case, the E7, B6, and C#7 mean that you play an E on the 7th octave, a B on the 6th octave, and a C# on the 7th octave.

 

That clear things up for you?

How do you even screw up something like this!? It's almost impossible for me to believe that this was an accident. I mean... they most likely just recall a patch or load a program on a sampler... Nothing very sample-specific in doing that. I think someone must have done it on purpose. Uhh good job to Van Halen though for a actually bearable (given the context) performance.

There is nothing you can do in the free price range to completely eliminate lag. But, you can come so close that you can't even tell the difference. All that you need are ASIO drivers for your sound card, and a program that supports ASIO. ASIO bypasses the windows mixing kernels (which degrade the sound quality and introduce lag), and allow your program to communicate directly with your sound card. Many sound cards these days include ASIO drivers, and many software programs let you use them. Unfortunately, ASIO is closed source, while Audacity is open source... So unless you want to compile Audacity yourself, it won't include ASIO support. You might be able to get what you want by using WDM drivers (Audacity supports them), and lowering the latency, but you would most likely still have a bigger "lag" than with ASIO.

I like them, I have one myself. IMO not a very realistic bass drum pedal feel (no mass to set in motion/have stop as in a bass drum beater), but once you get used to it, it's very comfortable. Also, easy to service. And keep clean. You might have to edit your velo. curves though, as their dynamics are pretty extreme as compared to a standard piezo pickup pedal (Not that that's a bad thing!).

IMO, the solo "fill" in Natural Science is the best fill there is in any music that I've heard. Period. In 2nd place would have to be the fill at the end of Limelight.

I tend to play things exactly the way Neil plays them. At least as close as my sets allow me to.

ALOT of Rush's synth sounds are from the original Taurus pedals. Mostly their non-90's basslines. Think songs such as the intro to Xanadu, the bassline in The Big Money, the intro to Closer to The Heart, La Villa Strangiato, Subdivisions, the beginning of the solo part of Freewill, all those songs and more. The original Taurus pedals are used for ALOT of their studio albums and almost all of their live work.

There's alot of Rush sounds in the world of virtual synths. Soon I'm going to be starting a web site with various Rush samples for download. I've done ones like what are used in "The Enemy Within", using a emulated PPG Wave and an emulated Moog Taurus. If you want to hear, just go to my MySpace page. The link is in my footer. It's amazing how close virtual synths can get. Things like the DX7 are emulated perfectly (duh!), but still, it's amazing how cheap they are. How much would you pay for a Moog Taurus (one of Ged's earliest synths that was mainly for playing basslines... but he used them forever, even on S&A) that never needed maintenance, was midi-controlled, never out of tune, had more than a one-octave range without switching octaves, and a lower nose floor than the normal? What if I told you it weighed as little as your laptop?

 

What if I told you it was free?

 

That's the power of virtual analogue.

QUOTE (Shranexis0 @ Jun 20 2007, 08:54 AM)

You don't have to join a drumline or know the Rudiments to be a good drummer. I didn't start with the Rudiments. I went over to a friend's house and played on his drumset for fun. Later I found a $200 trash set at a garage sale, and played on that. Eventually, we performed a 6-song gig at junior Prom. The way I learned was by drumming to headphones. I would sit on my bed, follow along with songs I liked, and move my hands in the air. Then I would go out in the garage and perform on my trash drumset to see how well I knew the song and to practice my rhythm and coordination. It may be different for other people, but I found for myself that basically copying other drummers helped me to imitate them and to master their styles. I drummed Evanescence and Nirvana to learn a relaxed style, which helped me to keep my rhythm on slower pieces. I drummed ACDC and Lynyrd Skynyrd for simplicity, to learn strong and dynamic drumming without overdoing it. I drummed Metallica to learn some slow heavy and some fast drumming but still pretty simple. I didn't need to learn the Rudiments till I began drumming Rush, and that's when I learned how to do quasi-complicated things, like Peart's ride paradiddle riff, as well as how to put slight modifications on the same riff to make a new one, which Peart does with most of his fills. And don't try to get stuck in a single band to the exclusion of others, because the more people and styles you drum with, the more experience and variety you will receive.

The link doesn't work.

Nice... I wish Neil would release more drums-only stuff.

Oh yeah, if anyone wants any help, I can help them too...

Haha MIDI is my saviour. Without it, I'd be dead. All my gear uses MIDI, and between computers too (kindof. MIDI it encapsulated in a TCP/IP frame so it can transmit through ethernet so I don't have physical restrictions of MIDI, but it's still the same protocol.). Very cool and powerful stuff when it works, and very confusing (at first) when it doesn't.

 

Do you have a joystick port on your sound card/motherboard? It's a DB-15 connector. Some of the newer ones don't include them, but most have them. If you have them, you can get a cheap (I bought one for $2) cable that gives your computer MIDI I/O through that connector. That's probably cheaper then a USB-MIDI adapter. But, generally speaking, you should be able to use both of them with whatever program will use the windows APIs for MIDI. I know almost every program that can deal with midi uses them, so it's a safe bet it would work with both Acid and Reason... but I don't use Acid or Reason, so don't quote me on that. Odds are if you plugged it in and nothing happened, you're on the wrong port, wrong channel, wrong patch, connected something to input instead of output... something like that.

 

All I can say is: have fun

QUOTE (prog.fusion @ May 23 2007, 08:44 AM)

QUOTE (Mr. Ludwig @ May 23 2007, 04:56 AM) QUOTE (prog.fusion @ May 22 2007, 10:28 PM) everyone..please dont bid on this. that way....i can buy it for $1.01. and s & h of course! Uhh... you totally forgot that there's a reserve. i really dont put a lot of time or thought into my humor.         hahaha oh ok

QUOTE (prog.fusion @ May 22 2007, 10:28 PM)

everyone..please dont bid on this. that way....i can buy it for $1.01. and s & h of course!