Rutlefan

In fairness, my dislike of CP is on a totally different level than Goober's hatred of VT. That guy said he'd choose Yoko over VT. I'd choose CP and Goober kickin me in the nuts with CP themed shoes than listening to Yoko.

 

The best defense I've ever read of CDs (vs LPs) is that with CDs you don't have to lift the needle six times in order to get through Double Fantasy. The LP side still won from an audiophile perspective, but the fire-and-forget filtering of Yoko was a pretty strong argument all the same.

^ Always welcome those kind of dopplegangers, for sure. Since you posted, I added P-Furs 1st album, and there's another group/album that I intended to include but now can't recall.

 

I like your beer quotes; Ben Franklin and H. Simpson, I believe. If you're ever in Baltimore, there's a great bar (taphouse) named Maxs in Fells Point. Great place, unbelievable selection of taps, and they have the B. Franklin quote emblazoned on one of the beams that supports the ceiling. Makes you feel good about the reason you're in there.

 

I remember now. I'd intended to put Echo and the Bunnymen's Porcupine in there among the second half of the list, but I'll just leave things be at this point. Also loved early The Cure, but there not one album that sticks out for me. From their first through Head on the Door they've all got something going for them. Same can be said for Joy Division (though Movement is quasi Joy Division). The Fall, Swell Maps, Gang of Four, The Mekons ... the early '80's produced some great post-punk bands, though not necessarily classic/favorite albums.

^ Always welcome those kind of dopplegangers, for sure. Since you posted, I added P-Furs 1st album, and there's another group/album that I intended to include but now can't recall.

 

I like your beer quotes; Ben Franklin and H. Simpson, I believe. If you're ever in Baltimore, there's a great bar (taphouse) named Maxs in Fells Point. Great place, unbelievable selection of taps, and they have the B. Franklin quote emblazoned on one of the beams that supports the ceiling. Makes you feel good about the reason you're in there.

Wow, reading through the posts I'm impressed by the musical sensibilities of Rush fans. I'll play too. Per the stated/implied rules, no solo artists (so no L. Cohen, Jeff Buckley, Sufjan Stevens) and I'll stick to rock (no folk/experimental/"projects" -- e.g., This Mortal Coil). I'll also stick to one album per group, to help spread the love.

1. Radiohead -- OK Computer
   
2. Rush -- Hemispheres
   
3. Led Zeppelin -- Physical Graffiti
   
4. Wire -- 154
   
5. The Kinks -- The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society (not to be confused with the tragically regrettable Preservation Acts 1 & 2)
   
6. Big Star -- Big Star's Third (also known as Alex Chilton's Sister Lovers; this is borderline breaking the rules, but album is far too epic to ignore)
   
7. Teenage Fanclub -- Songs from Northern Britain (close second: Bandwagonesque)
   
8. The Pixies -- Trompe Le Monde
   
9. My Bloody Valentine -- Loveless
   
10. Nirvana -- Nevermind
    
11. The Wedding Present -- Take Fountain (close second: Seamonsters)
    
12. The Beatles -- Revolver
    
13. XTC -- Apple Venus I & II
    
14. Tones on Tail -- The Album Pop
    
15. The Smiths -- Louder than Bombs
    
16. Jane's Addiction -- Ritual de lo Habitual
    
17. The Clash -- Sandinista
    
18. New Order -- Movement
    
19. The The -- Mind Bomb (close second: Soul Mining)
    
20. Psychedelic Furs -- Psychedelic Furs
    

There were a few groups -- The Church, Pink Floyd, The Police, Queen, Cocteau Twins, U2, REM, early Aerosmith, The Jazz Butcher/Jazz Butcher Conspiracy, Fleetwood Mac, and so on -- who could have had any of three of four albums in the list, but there wasn't one that stuck out above the rest for me (e.g., if you could marry Dark Side of the Moon to Wish You Were Here, you would have an unstoppable monster of a list topper, IMHO), or there just wasn't room. Also stuck to studio material, so no Wings Over America (this and Around the World with Three Dog Night were my favorite live albums when I was a kid; supplanted by The Song Remains the Same, and of course ATWAS, when hormones stirred my reptilian brain).

^{I love Beatles and early Stones, but those bands come with a lot of baggage, in a sense (cultural/celebrity/personality-driven/etc.). One thing I like about the early Kinks is that they were never "too big". Their '60's music also has a purity to it: just great (usually witty) lyrics and clever /hip riffs. They kind of forecast the musical sensibility of punk but without the artsy gloominess of Velvet Underground or the lip snarl of "Wild Thing". If Well Respected Man and Dedicated Follower of Fashion were the only things the ever wrote, I'd still think they were great.}

One of the giants. The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society will always be one of my top ten, if not top five.

 

Far out, top 5 status? It's not bad I guess.

 

Let's see, off the top of my head: Radiohead OK Computer, Rush Hemispheres, Led Zep Phys Graffitti, Wire 154, and ... I guess The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society, edging out Sufjan Stevens Seven Swans, Tones on Tail The Album Pop, Best of Leonard Cohen, Simon&Garf Bridge..., several Beatles releases, XTC Apple Venus I&II, Wedding Present Take Fountain, etc.

 

As I had never really thought about ranking it before I'm a little surprised I'm rating it so high, but nothing outside my top four beat it. Musically it's not very complex, but I love the writing, esp 1st three tracks, Animal Farm and Wicked Annabella. Like Leonard Cohen, I first heard it when I was in the perfect mood for it; I was really captivated by it for awhile. Other Kinks are great, esp Face to Face and Something Else, but Preservation Society was their best moment, I think.

I don't think I knew the Internet existed until '94, and I still barely understood it for a couple of years.

 

Al Gore sent me an advanced copy in the early/mid '80's. It wasn't quite ready for wide release as he was still tweaking it, and having to personnaly correct some of the protocols that some MIT/NSA people bungled. Eventually Al fixed everything right up and the rest is history.

One more vote "for". I like Rush's harder-edged stuff, and VT and S&A are my favorite releases since MP (even though I have always liked GUP, despite it not mentioning a single cave of ice or black hole). On the other hand, I think RTB and CP are the low points in Rush's catalogue. But, if that's what you like, good for you; I just think it's funny as hell how adamant rushgoober is about VT sucking, and at the same time talks about how great is Counterparts. Funny odd, but also entertaining. After the greatness of Counterparts is explained, I look forward to reading how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

 

You like Rush's harder-edged stuff but think CP is one of Rush's low points?

 

Yeah, did I miss something?

 

I just looked at the song list. Because there is some heavy bass and guitar, like Stick it Out for example, that isn't what I mean by hard-edged. CP to me sounds more like April Wine or Survivor, like a pop band trying to sound mean (though granted, Rush is still great whereas those other bands are to music what small pox was to health and vigor), whereas the sound of VT stands up to some pretty cool (somewhat) contemporary bands. If Geddy's voice was masked and I hadn't been told that I was listening to Rush, I would have thought that some fantastic new group had come out of nowhere. It took me a long time to appreciate it because when I first heard it I still had not forgiven Rush for Time Stand Still (esp the video), which had estranged me from them for years. But now that I've been able to appreciate that Rush can do what they want to do (that is, I can't expect them to make A Farewell to Kings through Moving Pictures over and over), and I listen to VT based on its own merits without comparing it to the stuff that had once defined Rush for me, I think it kicks a**. It actually sounds "cool" (most Rush, whatever else you might say about it, doesn't sound "cool"). I couldn't care less if it lacks a guitar solo. The Clash and most other punk/post punk/new wave bands, including my favorite '70's/early '80's post-punk bands -- Wire and Swell Maps -- never used guitar solos, and I think that's a good thing. In general, I couldn't care less about solos of any kind; generally the less of that the better for me. So, that doesn't bother me about VT, even though Alex is one of the few guitarists whose solos I do enjoy, if/when he plays them. And on that note, Alex, along with Johnny Marr and Radiohead's three-headed monster are my favorite producers of guitar sounds. Alex is the only one who does blazing guitar solos, but even those seem to blend in with, and compliment, the music (they're not "look at me" solos). The guitar work in La Villa and the solos in Different Strings, Red Barchetta, and Limelight are just surreal to me. Alex seems like a regular not-too-complicated guy, but he channels sounds like very few ever have. Amazing. Anyway, point being, I think he's amazing on VT, without any (so I read, I haven't noted it myself) guitar solos. That rocks. Now Rush is as cool as The Clash! Take that, high school! ;) Went off on a tangent, but just sayin' that VT rocks in a totally different (and better, for me) way than CP. By a long long shot. If I understand him correctly, I think rushgoober will totally agree.

If you think rushgoober will agree with anything positive said about VT then you haven't read any of his posts about that album. Rushgoober enjoys VT like I enjoy a crow shitting on my head

 

Yeah, I've picked that up; though he tries hard to hide his true feelings, I can read between the lines. My comment was tongue-in-cheek (as was the preceding comment, of course). I was worried about his (relative) lack of recent activity in the thread, so I threw out some bait. Didn't really take it though, just nibbled.

One more vote "for". I like Rush's harder-edged stuff, and VT and S&A are my favorite releases since MP (even though I have always liked GUP, despite it not mentioning a single cave of ice or black hole). On the other hand, I think RTB and CP are the low points in Rush's catalogue. But, if that's what you like, good for you; I just think it's funny as hell how adamant rushgoober is about VT sucking, and at the same time talks about how great is Counterparts. Funny odd, but also entertaining. After the greatness of Counterparts is explained, I look forward to reading how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

 

You like the harder edge stuff but you like SnA over CA? CA eats SnA for breakfast.

 

Yup, CA is definitely harder than S&A or VT, and I like CA, but being hard isn't the only reason I like an album, even when it's by Rush, who generally sounds better to me when they're playing like they mean it. My very favorite Rush is the second side of Hemispheres, and Xanadu and Red Barchetta, all of which are, though sometimes loud, pretty melodic. I like VT/S&A/CA for being hard because I thought there was so much light fluff among the albums that came before them (though I'm warming up to T4E).

One more vote "for". I like Rush's harder-edged stuff, and VT and S&A are my favorite releases since MP (even though I have always liked GUP, despite it not mentioning a single cave of ice or black hole). On the other hand, I think RTB and CP are the low points in Rush's catalogue. But, if that's what you like, good for you; I just think it's funny as hell how adamant rushgoober is about VT sucking, and at the same time talks about how great is Counterparts. Funny odd, but also entertaining. After the greatness of Counterparts is explained, I look forward to reading how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

 

You like Rush's harder-edged stuff but think CP is one of Rush's low points?

 

Yeah, did I miss something?

 

I just looked at the song list. Because there is some heavy bass and guitar, like Stick it Out for example, that isn't what I mean by hard-edged. CP to me sounds more like April Wine or Survivor, like a pop band trying to sound mean (though granted, Rush is still great whereas those other bands are to music what small pox was to health and vigor), whereas the sound of VT stands up to some pretty cool (somewhat) contemporary bands. If Geddy's voice was masked and I hadn't been told that I was listening to Rush, I would have thought that some fantastic new group had come out of nowhere. It took me a long time to appreciate it because when I first heard it I still had not forgiven Rush for Time Stand Still (esp the video), which had estranged me from them for years. But now that I've been able to appreciate that Rush can do what they want to do (that is, I can't expect them to make A Farewell to Kings through Moving Pictures over and over), and I listen to VT based on its own merits without comparing it to the stuff that had once defined Rush for me, I think it kicks a**. It actually sounds "cool" (most Rush, whatever else you might say about it, doesn't sound "cool"). I couldn't care less if it lacks a guitar solo. The Clash and most other punk/post punk/new wave bands, including my favorite '70's/early '80's post-punk bands -- Wire and Swell Maps -- never used guitar solos, and I think that's a good thing. In general, I couldn't care less about solos of any kind; generally the less of that the better for me. So, that doesn't bother me about VT, even though Alex is one of the few guitarists whose solos I do enjoy, if/when he plays them. And on that note, Alex, along with Johnny Marr and Radiohead's three-headed monster are my favorite producers of guitar sounds. Alex is the only one who does blazing guitar solos, but even those seem to blend in with, and compliment, the music (they're not "look at me" solos). The guitar work in La Villa and the solos in Different Strings, Red Barchetta, and Limelight are just surreal to me. Alex seems like a regular not-too-complicated guy, but he channels sounds like very few ever have. Amazing. Anyway, point being, I think he's amazing on VT, without any (so I read, I haven't noted it myself) guitar solos. That rocks. Now Rush is as cool as The Clash! Take that, high school! ;) Went off on a tangent, but just sayin' that VT rocks in a totally different (and better, for me) way than CP. By a long long shot. If I understand him correctly, I think rushgoober will totally agree.

One more vote "for". I like Rush's harder-edged stuff, and VT and S&A are my favorite releases since MP (even though I have always liked GUP, despite it not mentioning a single cave of ice or black hole). On the other hand, I think RTB and CP are the low points in Rush's catalogue. But, if that's what you like, good for you; I just think it's funny as hell how adamant rushgoober is about VT sucking, and at the same time talks about how great is Counterparts. Funny odd, but also entertaining. After the greatness of Counterparts is explained, I look forward to reading how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

 

You like Rush's harder-edged stuff but think CP is one of Rush's low points?

 

Yeah, did I miss something?

One more vote "for". I like Rush's harder-edged stuff, and VT and S&A are my favorite releases since MP (even though I have always liked GUP, despite it not mentioning a single cave of ice or black hole). On the other hand, I think RTB and CP are the low points in Rush's catalogue. But, if that's what you like, good for you; I just think it's funny as hell how adamant rushgoober is about VT sucking, and at the same time talks about how great is Counterparts. Funny odd, but also entertaining. After the greatness of Counterparts is explained, I look forward to reading how sheep's bladders can be used to prevent earthquakes.

Since Counterparts was brought up, I might as well bring up RTB which I think is worse overall than VT, T4E, and Counterparts. I only like Dreamline, Bravado, Where's My Thing, and Lifeson's solo in Ghost of a Chance. Other material on there is tolerable or hammy. Lyrically though I think it obliterates T4E.

I'm listening to Bones now (1st time this year) to give it some more thought

 

I agree. I've been listening to T4E back through RTB because of the discussion here, and my impression of T4E was greatly improved. Outside of some cheesy lyrics, the music is pretty damn good on the whole. I know this is blasphemy to some, but if you toned down Neil Pearts oh-so-literal lyric writing (the weak link in post MP Rush methinks), you'd have a really decent album. I'll stick with Vapor Trails in a head to head, but I think T4E belongs more to VT and later than the five albums that came before it, which is high praise for me. Contrarywise, repeated listenings to Counterparts and RTB have further soured me on those albums. I've been putting together a rush songlist for my minivan's HD (yes, I've got kids n stuff), and the only songs I'm selecting from RTB and Counterparts are Bravado, Animate and Leave That Thing Alone, whereas the whole albums are recorded for T4E and on (also true of 2112 through GUP; everything else is selectively part of the Everything Else playlist).

 

So, in short, I still vote for VT, but T4E isn't as far behind as I used to think.

One of the giants. The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society will always be one of my top ten, if not top five.

Easy for me -- Hemipsheres (sic). Would have died to see them live at that time but I was a 7th grader living in the great white north of Dakota so it wasn't happening.

Circumstances just because it's the least "star power." That said, Hemispheres doesn't have a bad moment; Circumstances rocks; best Rush album. With Radiohead's OK Computer and Zep's Physical Graffitti, it's the Best-Album-Ever (with all due respect to Beatles' Revolver, Dark Side of the Moon, and London Calling).

A Farewell to Kings. My older brother brought home ATWAS when it came out. I loved it but wasn't sure if they were trying to be UFO or Yes. Then they came out with A Farewell to Kings which I bought with some trepidation (a 6th grader has to spend his money wisely). Musically-speaking, that was life-changing. I listened to Xanadu two to three times a day with headphones every day for a year. Then Hemispheres came and was even better. Those were the days.

ATWAS. First Rush album I ever heard and of course was blown away. Still amazed by Lakeside Park, Bytor and In the End. For a band that had seemingly come out of nowhere (I hadn't heard of 2112 yet), it was a revelation.

 

ESL has my favorite setlist but I've never cared for the production.

Whomever compared Signals to the Rupert Hine era was spot on. The album as a whole really has no balls and was the beginning of a downward turn for Rush.

 

Countdown, Chemistry, and Losing It are all very good examples of the problems that plagued this album. They all have very promising starts and brilliants parts but just go nowhere. I have always found this album to be extremely overrated and, coming off such an incredibly brilliant run of albums, a very disappointing effort at a time when Rush could have exploded.

 

I love Subdivisions and Analog Kid. The rest of the album needs a shot of adrenaline and sounds like an unfinished project as a whole.

 

That being said, Rush did what they wanted to do at the time and that's the important part. They challenged themselves and even though I believe they really missed the mark, they gave it a good shot.

 

Agree completely, though I'm really only a fan of Analog Kid from that album (and New World Man is an admittedly good single). At a later point in their career I would have welcomed Signals, but coming on the heels of PW and MP, when Rush was poised to rule the world, it was like "WT#?!? Is this the same band?" I play it now and then thinking I might like it more, but it really does sound sort of unfinished, esp the last two songs, which are really good conceptually, but just not executed in a way that dounds right (is the disembodied NASA voice in Countdown the same one that so ominously warned me of the danger of the Necromancer and the triumph of the Solar Federation??? Is that my niece's Sony fun machine doing the dee do dee do keyboard solo before the anti-climactic playout?? I can only wonder). It would have been interesting if they could have done Losing It on tour as they might have finally done it justice.

Not a musician but I knows whats I likes.

 

Alex -- Hemispheres (though Permanent Waves a very close second)

Geddy -- Moving Pictures for vocals. For bass, despite my preference for old Rush, maybe Clockwork Angels

Neil -- Moving Pictures for lyrics (again, Permanent Waves a close second), A Farewell to Kings for drums

LedRush wrote: Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

 

I suppose I should have said any non-Rush devotee with tastes remotely like mine or others I know. I have several friends who don't like Rush in general, but they think VT and S&A is at least ok, while they can't stomach the late '80's and '90's stuff; I remember a couple of them laughing at Roll the Bones' rap.

 

As well, Signals and RtB were released while Rush was in their commercial prime, unlike VT and S&A. Also, they were supported by singles, and Signals was carried (arguably) by the broad appeal won by Moving Pictures; doesn't mean people in general thought Signals and RtB were really appealing albums (maybe many did; people like Matchbox 20 and Creed, so who knows).

 

Lastly, comparing album sales b/t the age of download and pre-download isn't really valid, is it? How about this: acc to Wikipedia's Rush Discography page, VT and S&A went to #3 in Canada, and #6 and #3 in the U.S. Compare that to Signals (#1 CAN and #10 US) and RtB (#11 and #3). So I'd say comparing apples to apples (sales strength relative to the market), VT/S&A arguably did better than Signals/RtB. In fact, only Moving Pictures at 1 and 3 and CA at 1 and 2 did better. So not only is my opinion close to being accurate, I think it arguably is accurate.

 

RTB came after almost a decade of decreasing album sales...HYF and Presto were the only two albums not to go platinum since Caress of Steel. RTB reversed that trend.

 

And while it is true that people buy less albums nowadays, if you buy the digital version of the entire album, I believe it still counts as an album sale. Also, they changed what it takes to get into the top for a release, and Rush, as is typical of cult bands, sells a shitload the first weak and then sales trickle. That is a measure of the hardcore, not the measure of the casuals. Those sales are measured in the coming weeks as word of mouth, radio, or internet induce more people to buy. That's how RTB went platinum, and that's why S&A will never go gold.

 

And the band did release singles from those albums, it's just that no one liked them. RTB had 4 singles in the top 15, and Signals had 3 in the top 20. Despite releasing 7 singles from VT and S&A, only 4 charted and only one was top 20. And radio is different nowadays. It is much easier to chart in the US Main category now as there is so much less competition as the format and genre becomes decreasingly popular as music continues to fragment into more and more niches.

 

The position that casual fans like VT and S&A more than the band's 1982-96 output is very, very unlikely to be true as it just isn't supported by much evidence.

 

Well, I'll admit that RtB is probably the turd in the puchbowl that is my argument. Can't figure out the appeal myself (sounds like Rush doing Kajagoogoo to me), but to each one's own.

 

At any rate, peace. Rush, Led Zep, and Aerosmith were my Holy Trinity as a kid in the late '70's. Led Zep is still among my favorites (and still appreciate those early Aerosmith albums), so we're probably not that far apart on most things music. Frankly, after the first listenings to VT or S&A, I never imagined I'd be defending them. I remember earlier wishing the Rush in Rio songlist would have just skipped the VT songs altogether, but over time they grew on me some. Nothing compares to their early stuff though. Like radiohead in '96/'97 with Bends and OK Computer (and related b-sides), Rush was the best band in the world in '80/'81 with PW and MP. Having grown up as a hockey-playing, SCTV-watching kid in N. Dakota, I was so proud of them. ;)

LedRush wrote: Well, RTB obviously reached many more people, and ditto for Signals. And seeing as you picked the first two albums by Rush to NOT go Gold, I somehow doubt that your opinion is close to being accurate.

 

I suppose I should have said any non-Rush devotee with tastes remotely like mine or others I know. I have several friends who don't like Rush in general, but they think VT and S&A is at least ok, while they can't stomach the late '80's and '90's stuff; I remember a couple of them laughing at Roll the Bones' rap.

 

But comparing album sales b/t the age of download and pre-download isn't really valid, is it? How about this: acc to Wikipedia's Rush Discography page, VT and S&A went to #3 in Canada, and #6 and #3 in the U.S. respectively. Compare that to Signals (#1 CAN and #10 US) and RtB (#11 and #3). So I'd say comparing apples to apples (sales strength relative to the market), VT/S&A arguably did better than Signals/RtB. In fact, only Moving Pictures at 1 and 3 and CA at 1 and 2 did better than VT/S&A. So not only is my opinion close to being accurate, I think it arguably is accurate, unlike yours.

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers:

 

So you actually like S&A? You meet all kinds...

 

Indeed. In fact, I like it more than anything they've done after Moving Pictures, in spite of Neil Peart's emerging journal-entry-as-song-lyric style of wiriting. A Larger Bowl is one of their best songs, I think, aside from Richard Dawkins-channeled refrain ("the world's so badly arranged" -- yeah, our world really sucks compared to other worlds). Several other strong tracks incl three really excellent instrumentals. I think VT and S&A were the first albums since Moving Pictures that a non-Rush-specific music fan can easily appreciate. Just my opinion, obviously.

One more for Vapor Trails. Not at all close for me. But then, outside a few tracks, I don't care for what they made between GUP and VT, so though I happen to really like VT, for me almost anything would have been improvement over what they'd been doing the previous decade plus. I'm one of those who grew up on Terry Brown Rush and never warmed up to stuff that followed (except for GUP), until their recent albums -- VT and S&A especially - and middle-age nostalgia brought me back to the fold.

 

New to the forum. Greetings fellow Trekkies :cheers: