Rush On Bootlegging

[kamrahai]

if the names The Swingin' Pig or TAKRL or Kornyfone don't mean anything to you, then you really aren't in an intellectual position to comment on this thread.

 

But here's a hint: bootlegging was around LOOOONNNNNG before the internet made free trading easy, practical, and inexpensive. Until 1998 or so, the only way most people had access to these recordings was the commercially-released stuff from the bigger underground labels. Yeah, trading circles existed, but those were hard to fond and even harder to break into.

 

People the piously say that no money should ever trade hands for bootlegs have absolutely no clue as to the effort, and in some cases, THOUSANDS of dollars that were spent to put these recordings into the free range where they exist today.

 

I worked in a couple of record shops from 1993-'96, and we sold these higher-end boots there-Swingin' Pig and TAKRL were almost exclusively soundboard recordings...they were very clumsily marketed in disguise as 'imports'...hahaha.

 

Generally, we sold single discs for $25, doubles for $50, and a 3CD set would go for anywhere from $60-75. And they sold, week in and week out.

 

I got to buy them at our cost, which was significantly less than that.

 

 

Yeah...different places did different things....some were $15-$20 per disc....other's were $30! and those were the ones you researched before buying, because if it sucked...you were stuck!

 

My one local place cut deals with those of us that bought a lot, so it was a good place....AND they knew how to find things.... got a great Floyd boot from a show I saw in Philly in 1987 that, besides being a great show, was just an amazing piece of packaging!

 

 

Exactly....I got to the point with my local "indy record store" owner that he called me to give 1st dibs on any Rush or Floyd silvers he got in.

 

Much the same story with me. I worked in a record store from '83 to '87 and always had first dibs on what came in the "Imports" shipment. With my staff discount not too many boots made it to the record bins. These were mainly picture disc and vinyl boots as cds were just making an appearance in my last year there.

[Jaminbenb]

if the names The Swingin' Pig or TAKRL or Kornyfone don't mean anything to you, then you really aren't in an intellectual position to comment on this thread.

 

But here's a hint: bootlegging was around LOOOONNNNNG before the internet made free trading easy, practical, and inexpensive. Until 1998 or so, the only way most people had access to these recordings was the commercially-released stuff from the bigger underground labels. Yeah, trading circles existed, but those were hard to fond and even harder to break into.

 

People the piously say that no money should ever trade hands for bootlegs have absolutely no clue as to the effort, and in some cases, THOUSANDS of dollars that were spent to put these recordings into the free range where they exist today.

 

I worked in a couple of record shops from 1993-'96, and we sold these higher-end boots there-Swingin' Pig and TAKRL were almost exclusively soundboard recordings...they were very clumsily marketed in disguise as 'imports'...hahaha.

 

Generally, we sold single discs for $25, doubles for $50, and a 3CD set would go for anywhere from $60-75. And they sold, week in and week out.

 

I got to buy them at our cost, which was significantly less than that.

 

 

Yeah...different places did different things....some were $15-$20 per disc....other's were $30! and those were the ones you researched before buying, because if it sucked...you were stuck!

 

My one local place cut deals with those of us that bought a lot, so it was a good place....AND they knew how to find things.... got a great Floyd boot from a show I saw in Philly in 1987 that, besides being a great show, was just an amazing piece of packaging!

 

 

Exactly....I got to the point with my local "indy record store" owner that he called me to give 1st dibs on any Rush or Floyd silvers he got in.

 

Much the same story with me. I worked in a record store from '83 to '87 and always had first dibs on what came in the "Imports" shipment. With my staff discount not too many boots made it to the record bins. These were mainly picture disc and vinyl boots as cds were just making an appearance in my last year there.

 

I wish I worked in a record store back then...always had a damn office job, and no time for a second job like that....but the one guy in my local store would say NEW "Rush", "Pink Floyd", or "Zappa" when ever I walked in!

 

We also had a "Disc Go Round" that wasn't really "hip" to the whole bootleg thing, and that place ended up being a treasure trove of stuff over the years... Some guy unloaded his Asia and Yes collection, and I picked up a LOT of stuff for about $2-$5. each! (Imports as well as the bootlegs) Was sad to see that place go!

[ytserush]

The bottom line is money they feel they are being cheated out of, but no one makes any money off of the bootlegs, and I don't think anyone ever did.

 

Before the Internet days, bootleg recordings were big business for a lot of underground labels. Suggest you read Clinton Heylin's book "Bootleg" to educate yourself.

 

Even in the early days of recordable CDRs, there were a few collectors making big $$$ selling some of the now-common shows. No names, but a prominent seller that a few of you might remember from the mid-90s was pulling down six figures easily doing nothing but selling Rush boots.

 

I was just going to post this. It's a good book, but don't expect to find much in the way of Rush in it.

[ytserush]

Before the internet, I bought Rush boots when I could find them, I don't know about other places but up in Toronto Rush boot vinyl was not common and later on when cds were the norm, still not a ton of silver pressed discs and I considered them rare finds, rarely passing up any that I spotted...

 

my Rush vinyl boot collection

 

- Rush 'n' Roulette 3 lp box (Chicago March '81) - $30 bought in the early eighties

- Electric Ladyland Studios Live (Dec '74) $12.50 bought mid-eighties

- Through Any Window (St. Paul March '86) $36 mid/late eighties

- Stellar Dynamics (mix of 2 Cleveland '74 shows) $45 mid-eighties

 

cassettes

- Whiskey A Go-Go (Nov '74) $10

- St. Louis 1980 recorded off the radio

 

CDs (all bought in the mid-nineties)

- La Villa Strangiato (St. Louis '80) $20

- Fly By Cleveland (Cleveland '74) $40

- Over the Europe (Germany 92) $60

- 2112 Days (Seattle '76) $40

- Cygnus X Story (Tucson '78) $60

- Praying for the Light (Pink Pop '79) $40

- Hemispheres Performance (Oslo '79) $40

 

after internet/torrenting

- hundreds of shows spanning every tour - cost? whatever my ISP charges me and my time and no money to the modern day Dub and Ken's of the world (no hate towards Dub and Ken btw)

 

I know many people conflate bootlegs with pirated material and unreleased shows that are torrented, but I think of them as 3 very different things. As a rule I never buy bootlegs anymore (although I couldn't help myself in 2 instances when I bought the recent releases of the ABC Broadcast and Spirit of the Airwaves). but other than that, no more bootleg purchases, just file sharing thank you.

 

Sorry if this upsets you Ray Danniels, but I promise, if you release full shows from the seventies and eighties, I'll buy them. Honest. Just as I have purchased every official live release up until now.

 

I haven't downloaded anything (or file sharing), but other than that my story is a similar one. I'll still pay for silvers I don't have but that's about it.

 

Back then it was $25 to $30 for a single and $50 to $55 for doubles. I used to scour record shows for them. When they started to become CDRs, I stopped. Videos were the same way $20 and I'd make deals the more that I bought. At one point, I was buying from three people who filmed Rush shows.(One guy...I'm sure some people know him would ALWAYS get there late and miss the first song or two. That still pisses me off.)

[78jazz]

I just realized I probably still have my copy of the Power Windows tour bootleg on vinyl. I think it was "looking through power windows" or something like that. Obnoxiously blue cover. Recording was sped up very noticeably (to me anyway), so if you think Geddy's voice sounded higher back then, you ain't heard nuthin'. I'm sure they did that to fit more of the show on fewer LPs. I know you pays yer money, you takes yer chances on this stuff, but I remember being really let down by this boot. I also had ELP Works 1/2, and some Yes boot on vinyl, and both sounded like stolen masters--same ELP recording that the band used when they put Peter Gun on whatever album it was on, and I'm pretty sure Yes used "I've seen all good people" off the same recording I have as a bonus single with something. Those two boots will always stand out in my memory as the gold standard. I'm guessing they were inside jobs.

 

I am not in a position to check my copy about 20 feet away right now, but IIRC the speed on the Rush vinyl you mention I think ran a full step too fast.

 

I have considered doing a transfer to CD and then a speed correction, but I don't think the sound was good enough to warrant it (especially with the excellent recordings available from that performance).

[taurus]

There are 2 vinyl boots with similar names "Looking Through A Window in Quebec" with a blue cover and a b&w picture of Alex and then there was the "Through Any Window" boot with a b&w paper folder cover with the PW kid looking through binoculars. I never heard the Quebec vinyl but Through Any Window had all the chatter and crowd noise between songs, cut as to fit the entire show onto 2 records. TSOR opening was cut and began with "Begin the day...". That show had no information from where the concert took place and misleading labels 'Edmunton Music" but turns out was from Rick B.'s recording of the St. Paul show iirc or maybe MIlwaukee. Edited April 29, 2016 by taurus

[Thunder Bay Rush]

I think that if a band is making solid cash (enough to live and retire on) not getting paid for bootlegs is a small price to pay. It does increase they're popularity, so in theory, people will buy the commercially available albums.

 

The principle of bootlegging is wrong because an artist should always be paid for their work or intellectual property etc. It's the smaller acts that are struggling financially that I feel bad for mostly.

 

What REALLY has my brain spinning is WHY full albums, the same product that is available in-store, is on the Google... for free. Why would anyone buy the Clockwork Angles live DVD (for example) if they can watch it for free on-line? This to me, is the REAL problem.

 

It's no wonder Rush hasn't sold a gold or platinum CD since A Test For Echo. Vapor Trails (2002) only sold about 350,000 (Gold in the US is 500,000) and that is when the internet really started taking off. Pretty much ALL of their albums before VT went gold or platinum. As many of us know, this is the main reasons why bands tour so much these days. They don't make much money from albums sales because most of it is on-line for free.

 

If I were an artist and my product was being given away for FREE on-line, I'd lose my shit. That would be no different from going on-line and ordering a bunch of groceries... for free, rather than going to Safeway or Sobey's and buying it.

 

Am I wrong?

Edited April 29, 2016 by Thunder Bay Rush

[78jazz]

There are 2 vinyl boots with similar names "Looking Through A Window in Quebec" with a blue cover and a b&w picture of Alex and then there was the "Through Any Window" boot with a b&w paper folder cover with the PW kid looking through binoculars. I never heard the Quebec vinyl but Through Any Window had all the chatter and crowd noise between songs, cut as to fit the entire show onto 2 records. TSOR opening was cut and began with "Begin the day...". That show had no information from where the concert took place and misleading labels 'Edmunton Music" but turns out was from Rick B.'s recording of the St. Paul show iirc or maybe MIlwaukee.

 

Mine is the first one.

[theredtamasrule]

If someone's buying boots then they've already bought every official release so bands really can't bitch too much. Just sell soundboard recordings for a couple bucks if you wanna try and fight it but to essentially complain that you're so successful that people want to pay for crappy recordings of every live show, yet your won't sell them, is a bit too much.

[grep]

I think that if a band is making solid cash (enough to live and retire on) not getting paid for bootlegs is a small price to pay. It does increase they're popularity, so in theory, people will buy the commercially available albums.

 

The principle of bootlegging is wrong because an artist should always be paid for their work or intellectual property etc. It's the smaller acts that are struggling financially that I feel bad for mostly.

 

What REALLY has my brain spinning is WHY full albums, the same product that is available in-store, is on the Google... for free. Why would anyone buy the Clockwork Angles live DVD (for example) if they can watch it for free on-line? This to me, is the REAL problem.

 

It's no wonder Rush hasn't sold a gold or platinum CD since A Test For Echo. Vapor Trails (2002) only sold about 350,000 (Gold in the US is 500,000) and that is when the internet really started taking off. Pretty much ALL of their albums before VT went gold or platinum. As many of us know, this is the main reasons why bands tour so much these days. They don't make much money from albums sales because most of it is on-line for free.

 

If I were an artist and my product was being given away for FREE on-line, I'd lose my shit. That would be no different from going on-line and ordering a bunch of groceries... for free, rather than going to Safeway or Sobey's and buying it.

 

Am I wrong?

 

Nope. You are spot on. Blows my mind too that I can watch R40L on You Tube

[grep]

What's interesting is that bands like Phish Perl Jam, and Mule, as examples, they sell their board recordings on-line. $$$ and still encourage taping.

 

To me, that is very very cool. I like the bands anyway, but the taper culture they allow makes me happy to like them.

[Blue J]

What's interesting is that bands like Phish Perl Jam, and Mule, as examples, they sell their board recordings on-line. $$$ and still encourage taping.

 

To me, that is very very cool. I like the bands anyway, but the taper culture they allow makes me happy to like them.

 

I agree, yeah. The Black Crowes were the same way, and there are some other examples too, I think.

[ytserush]

There are 2 vinyl boots with similar names "Looking Through A Window in Quebec" with a blue cover and a b&w picture of Alex and then there was the "Through Any Window" boot with a b&w paper folder cover with the PW kid looking through binoculars. I never heard the Quebec vinyl but Through Any Window had all the chatter and crowd noise between songs, cut as to fit the entire show onto 2 records. TSOR opening was cut and began with "Begin the day...". That show had no information from where the concert took place and misleading labels 'Edmunton Music" but turns out was from Rick B.'s recording of the St. Paul show iirc or maybe MIlwaukee.

 

Quebec City and St. Paul.

 

I really didn't like that they cut off after each song until the next one started. Takes away from the feel of the concert. There is a Milwaukee (tape and CD), but I'm not sure if it made it to vinyl.