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Ethnocentrism is one thing, but I see nothing wrong with people who are proud of their heritages. Good on them.

 

If someone's born with lower limb reductions, a genetic accident, then sure they should be proud. A lot of that would be due to what Carlin's saying about achieving yourself, since the child would be adapting to the disability, but there still is nothing wrong with being proud about something innate about you.

 

 

All I really took from this George Carlin quote was this: George Carlin doesn't understand the definition of pride.

 

What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

 

I'm okay with being proud about certain aspects of your Country of course, for example I'm proud that England developed the game of football into what it is today. However, many people have and still do go a little far with it, you correctly brought up the most famous example. Even now people support our continued illegal invasion and occupation of numerous Middle Eastern Countries, because we're Britain and we're great and once ruled everything, and then those same people will be the first to whine about refugees fleeing those Countries and coming here (among many other European Countries), perhaps if we stopped quite literally setting those places on fire we could think about sending them back. That's the kind of nationalism that gets on my nerves, hence the quote I posted.

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8159e6cb4a21106c27d067133f437b95.jpg

 

Ethnocentrism is one thing, but I see nothing wrong with people who are proud of their heritages. Good on them.

 

If someone's born with lower limb reductions, a genetic accident, then sure they should be proud. A lot of that would be due to what Carlin's saying about achieving yourself, since the child would be adapting to the disability, but there still is nothing wrong with being proud about something innate about you.

 

 

All I really took from this George Carlin quote was this: George Carlin doesn't understand the definition of pride.

 

What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

A major source of ethnic pride in this country was born from racist abuse. The Irish and Italians who came to this country in the 1800's and early 1900's were treated like vermin on the East Coast. That abuse sewed the seeds of Irish-American and Italian-American pride.

 

But in principle, yes, pride in one's ethnic heritage doesn't mean much on it's own. People still have to earn respect from others, regardless of their lineage.

 

Good thing I'm fully Italian Irish, now I can be proud about my culture without having to feel guilty.

 

Also: nationalism is becoming less of a dirty word in Germany now that millions of Syrian refugees (many of which are actually just economic migrants) are there and thousands of crimes and rapes have, and continue to occur.

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8159e6cb4a21106c27d067133f437b95.jpg

 

Ethnocentrism is one thing, but I see nothing wrong with people who are proud of their heritages. Good on them.

 

If someone's born with lower limb reductions, a genetic accident, then sure they should be proud. A lot of that would be due to what Carlin's saying about achieving yourself, since the child would be adapting to the disability, but there still is nothing wrong with being proud about something innate about you.

 

 

All I really took from this George Carlin quote was this: George Carlin doesn't understand the definition of pride.

 

What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

You neglected the Hitler detail. I know that we were all thinking it, to be fair, but even still: he used more tactics than just jingoism in order to cause that whole holocaust mess.

 

Pride

1 : the quality or state of being proud

a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect

c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship <parental pride>

 

So as we see here, pride isn't "I'm happy with who I am, people unlike me suck" -- that's not even what conceit is necessarily, it's just a vague arrogance; self importance.

Pride is "I'm happy with who I am" and that's about it. I don't think it's unreasonable to have self-respect, and that extends to respecting your own heritage.

 

Just because the Nazis were proud of their heritage doesn't mean everyone else in the future who's proud of their heritage is bound to be racist.

You're making a huge mistake in correlation equals causation there.

 

And I'm not positive about this, but I'm pretty sure the reason why pride is a deadly sin is because not admitting you're a shitty human and need god in order to be anything in this world is just a Christian gimmick.

If I'm going to hell for my sinful pride in being Italian, then I hope Satan is courteous enough to at least let me burn for eternity in a giant Ravioli pot.

Edited by Mr. Not
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What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

You neglected the Hitler detail. I know that we were all thinking it, to be fair, but even still: he used more tactics than just jingoism in order to cause that whole holocaust mess.

 

I didn't neglect the Hitler detail; I saw no reason to mention it.

 

Pride

1 : the quality or state of being proud

a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect

c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship <parental pride>

 

So as we see here, pride isn't "I'm happy with who I am, people unlike me suck" -- that's not even what conceit is necessarily, it's just a vague arrogance; self importance.

Pride is "I'm happy with who I am" and that's about it. I don't think it's unreasonable to have self-respect, and that extends to respecting your own heritage.

 

This is a good point. Self-respect is a great thing, especially when it flies in the face of bigotry by others. That was the whole reason gay pride festivals began, after all. However, there is a fine line between the pride that comes from simple self-respect, and the pride of arrogance, and I believe the OP concerned the latter.

 

Just because the Nazis were proud of their heritage doesn't mean everyone else in the future who's proud of their heritage is bound to be racist.

You're making a huge mistake in correlation equals causation there.

 

I made no mention of racism at all, nor did I equate correlation to causation. The only thing I did is describe how modern-day Germany does not have a sense of nationalism because of a backlash to historic events. The typical German is humble, and I believe humbleness is far preferable to arrogance.

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What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

You neglected the Hitler detail. I know that we were all thinking it, to be fair, but even still: he used more tactics than just jingoism in order to cause that whole holocaust mess.

 

I didn't neglect the Hitler detail; I saw no reason to mention it.

 

Pride

1 : the quality or state of being proud

a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect

c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship <parental pride>

 

So as we see here, pride isn't "I'm happy with who I am, people unlike me suck" -- that's not even what conceit is necessarily, it's just a vague arrogance; self importance.

Pride is "I'm happy with who I am" and that's about it. I don't think it's unreasonable to have self-respect, and that extends to respecting your own heritage.

 

This is a good point. Self-respect is a great thing, especially when it flies in the face of bigotry by others. That was the whole reason gay pride festivals began, after all. However, there is a fine line between the pride that comes from simple self-respect, and the pride of arrogance, and I believe the OP concerned the latter.

 

Just because the Nazis were proud of their heritage doesn't mean everyone else in the future who's proud of their heritage is bound to be racist.

You're making a huge mistake in correlation equals causation there.

 

I made no mention of racism at all, nor did I equate correlation to causation. The only thing I did is describe how modern-day Germany does not have a sense of nationalism because of a backlash to historic events. The typical German is humble, and I believe humbleness is far preferable to arrogance.

 

 

The bit in red is indeed what I meant.

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What about pride being one of the seven deadly sins? Clearly Carlin wasn't the first to see pride as a bad thing.

 

In regards to being proud of your national heritage, well, we can look at Germany as a test case. In the 30s-40s Germany took nationalism and patriotism to the extreme. Things have turned completely around since then, and today Germany is a very humble and modest country. There, nationalism is a bad word that conjures up memories they do not want (and with good reason: the WWII atrocities were conducted by a different generation, one who is now either elderly or gone). If you go to Germany today you will not find the proverbial patriot running around waving flags and shouting "Wooooo, Germany rules!" So keep that in mind during discussions of pride.

 

But back to Carlin's quote, I completely agree. The fact that I happen to have been born a particular ethnicity or nationality is no reason for pride; that would imply that one is better than another, and isn't that what all of our wars are based upon?

 

You neglected the Hitler detail. I know that we were all thinking it, to be fair, but even still: he used more tactics than just jingoism in order to cause that whole holocaust mess.

 

I didn't neglect the Hitler detail; I saw no reason to mention it.

 

Pride

1 : the quality or state of being proud

a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

b : a reasonable or justifiable self-respect

c : delight or elation arising from some act, possession, or relationship <parental pride>

 

So as we see here, pride isn't "I'm happy with who I am, people unlike me suck" -- that's not even what conceit is necessarily, it's just a vague arrogance; self importance.

Pride is "I'm happy with who I am" and that's about it. I don't think it's unreasonable to have self-respect, and that extends to respecting your own heritage.

 

This is a good point. Self-respect is a great thing, especially when it flies in the face of bigotry by others. That was the whole reason gay pride festivals began, after all. However, there is a fine line between the pride that comes from simple self-respect, and the pride of arrogance, and I believe the OP concerned the latter.

 

Just because the Nazis were proud of their heritage doesn't mean everyone else in the future who's proud of their heritage is bound to be racist.

You're making a huge mistake in correlation equals causation there.

 

I made no mention of racism at all, nor did I equate correlation to causation. The only thing I did is describe how modern-day Germany does not have a sense of nationalism because of a backlash to historic events. The typical German is humble, and I believe humbleness is far preferable to arrogance.

 

At the end of the day, this little dispute was almost entirely based on what pride can and can't mean.

 

Tune in next time on "Definition Wars" :LOL:

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"Every age has its own poetry; in every age the circumstances of history choose a nation, a race, a class to take up the torch by creating situations that can be expressed or transcended only through poetry."

 

----- Jean-Paul Sartre

 

 

"You can never visit the same place twice. Each time, it’s a different story. By the very act of coming back, you wipe out what came before."

 

----- Maureen Johnson

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"I prefer to be true to myself, even at the hazard of incurring the ridicule of others, rather than to be false, and to incur my own abhorrence."

— Frederick Douglass.

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"I stand at the seashore, alone, and start to think.

There are the rushing waves

mountains of molecules

each stupidly minding its own business

trillions apart

yet forming white surf in unison.

Ages on ages before any eyes could see

year after year

thunderously pounding the shore as now.

For whom, for what?

On a dead planet

with no life to entertain.

Never at rest

tortured by energy

wasted prodigiously by the sun

poured into space.

A mite makes the sea roar.

Deep in the sea

all molecules repeat

the patterns of one another

till complex new ones are formed.

They make others like themselves

and a new dance starts.

Growing in size and complexity

living things

masses of atoms

DNA, protein

dancing a pattern ever more intricate.

Out of the cradle

onto dry land

here it is

standing:

atoms with consciousness;

matter with curiosity.

Stands at the sea,

wonders at wondering: I

a universe of atoms

an atom in the universe."

 

—Richard P. Feynman.

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Heaven is the place where all the dogs you’ve ever loved come to greet you ...

 

—Unknown

 

 

The greatest pleasure of a dog is that you may make a fool of yourself with him and not only will he not scold you, but he will make a fool of himself too ...

 

—Samuel Butler

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"Don’t ever let them tell you that you’re too stupid to do something. I’m not saying it’s going to be easy for you. Maybe you’re going to have to work for it a little harder than other people, which I know isn’t fair. But that doesn’t mean you should just give up."

 

----- Meg Cabot

 

 

 

 

"Infatuation cannot be sustained indefinitely, my friend. Love that embraces the entire person is a monumental gift that takes time to grow."

 

----- Joan Bauer

Edited by rhyv
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"Realize your youth while you have it. Don’t squander the gold of your days, listening to the tedious, trying to improve the hopeless failure, or giving away your life to the ignorant, the common, and the vulgar. These are the sickly aims, the false ideals, of our age. Live! Live the wonderful life that is in you! Let nothing be lost upon you. Be always searching for new sensations. Be afraid of nothing."

 

----- Oscar Wilde

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"You know. Life’s short. If you don’t try new things, you’ll never know what you’re best at. And you can only make time for new things by quitting the things you know don’t work for you."

 

----- Meg Calbot

 

 

 

 

"You can’t dwell on what might have been."

 

----- Wendelin Van Draanen

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"A library is like an island in the middle of a vast sea of ignorance, particularly if the library is very tall and the surrounding area has been flooded."

 

----- Lemony Snicket

 

 

 

"If somebody likes me, I want them to like the real me, not what they think I am."

 

----- Stephen Chbosky

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"There is no such thing as a moral or immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all."

 

----- Oscar Wilde

 

 

 

"This above all: to thine own self be true,

And it must follow, as the night the day,

Thou canst not then be false to any man."

 

----- Hamlet, Shakespeare

 

 

 

"What a treacherous thing it is to believe that a person is more than a person."

 

----- John Green

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