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Carter Buthford better than neil??


nicky6
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to groove....in many ways you almost have to be a musician to really "get it"... its not an entirely intellectual thing you can read a book about and just understand....you also are better serviced to understand it by listening to a wide variety of styles...its not just about being good with a click track...although that helps for sure....but I have to say in many cases if you plan on working as a drummer and ever find yourself not understanding or wanting to understand it....you are not going to get many gigs.

 

Benny Greb is a great groove drummer who plays far more complex material than Rudd...as mentioned Gavin proved prog CAÑ groove....Alan White for example...stiff non grooving prog...

 

Groove has a nice motion...it makes people want to dance....as much as I love La Villa..its the last song that makes me think...groove.

Listening to Porcupine Tree makes you want to dance?

 

Maybe not dance, but you might find yourself bopping your head during some parts. Check this out:

 

http://youtu.be/DaPSvhReVwA

 

Especially check out

. That section is in 7/8 (same time sig as the "Hyperspace" section of Natural Science, and the "Monsters" riff from La Villa) -- not a time signature that lends itself to grooving, but Gavin grooves the hell out of it.

 

Steven Wilson is a selfish prick for not letting us say goodbye to Porcupine Tree. ;)

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to groove....in many ways you almost have to be a musician to really "get it"... its not an entirely intellectual thing you can read a book about and just understand....you also are better serviced to understand it by listening to a wide variety of styles...its not just about being good with a click track...although that helps for sure....but I have to say in many cases if you plan on working as a drummer and ever find yourself not understanding or wanting to understand it....you are not going to get many gigs.

 

Benny Greb is a great groove drummer who plays far more complex material than Rudd...as mentioned Gavin proved prog CAÑ groove....Alan White for example...stiff non grooving prog...

 

Groove has a nice motion...it makes people want to dance....as much as I love La Villa..its the last song that makes me think...groove.

Listening to Porcupine Tree makes you want to dance?

 

Maybe not dance, but you might find yourself bopping your head during some parts. Check this out:

 

http://youtu.be/DaPSvhReVwA

 

Especially check out

. That section is in 7/8 (same time sig as the "Hyperspace" section of Natural Science, and the "Monsters" riff from La Villa) -- not a time signature that lends itself to grooving, but Gavin grooves the hell out of it.

 

Steven Wilson is a selfish prick for not letting us say goodbye to Porcupine Tree. ;)

 

The Porcupine Tree Canon is better than anything Steven has done on his own. JMO

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Check out his double-pedal work here. I don't know that Neil could do it.

 

http://youtu.be/uftARK21gYQ

I’ve been playing drums all my life… I’m not very good these days, but I know what I’m talking about. I just watched the Carter Beauford solo and it’s very good, obviously. The double pedal part you mentioned is not hard. Fast single strokes with the bass drums is all that is. There is nothing in this solo that Neil couldn’t do. In fact, unless my ears deceived me, I heard parts of Carter’s solo that sound familiar to some of Neil’s solo bits from back as far as the 70s.

 

 

 

This whole notion of who could kick someone’s ass on the drums, or who is the best, or better… who can or can’t “groove” … is a constant argument. There are way too many unbelievable drummers out there today, many of whom could kick even Buddy Rich’s ass… who many people still believe is untouchable.

 

 

 

Don’t believe me? YouTube these guys… Thomas Lang, Tony Royster Jr. You will be shocked at what you see.

Edited by Thunder Bay Rush
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This whole notion of who could kick someone’s ass on the drums, or who is the best, or better… who can or can’t “groove” … is a constant argument. There are way too many unbelievable drummers out there today, many of whom could kick even Buddy Rich’s ass… who many people still believe is untouchable.

 

Don’t believe me? YouTube these guys… Thomas Lang, Tony Royster Jr. You will be shocked at what you see.

 

Royster is an animal. Sick hands. Everybody remember the Letterman solos from a few years ago?

 

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

What does that mean? Is it the same as having "feel"?

 

Yes, define "groove", please.

 

"a cognitive temporal phenomenon emerging from one or more carefully aligned concurrent rhythmic patterns, characterized by...perception of recurring pulses, and subdivision of structure in such pulses,...perception of a cycle of time, of length 2 or more pulses, enabling identification of cycle locations, and...effectiveness of engaging synchronizing body responses"

aka, ever so slightly behind the beat.

 

That's exactly right.

 

Groove, right here.

 

http://youtu.be/75bYDYLSP0o

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

What does that mean? Is it the same as having "feel"?

 

Yes, define "groove", please.

 

"a cognitive temporal phenomenon emerging from one or more carefully aligned concurrent rhythmic patterns, characterized by...perception of recurring pulses, and subdivision of structure in such pulses,...perception of a cycle of time, of length 2 or more pulses, enabling identification of cycle locations, and...effectiveness of engaging synchronizing body responses"

aka, ever so slightly behind the beat.

 

That's exactly right.

 

Groove, right here.

 

http://youtu.be/75bYDYLSP0o

Four years of my life was spenf living in a black neighborhood as the token white kid, so I got to hear a lot of funk ans Soul. We used play bands like AWB,Parliament, Ohio Players, Spinners. We even had dance-offs based on the old Lockers routines. So groove players are what I"m drawn too. I have a "less is more", but milk it dry drumming philosophy.
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Love the point that all great drummers have their aspects that make them great, but none are the same. That's essentially understood for guitar work, but I don't know why it isn't always collectively understood for drummers.

 

Also love point about Phil Rudd's style and groove. His beauty is sometimes in what he doesn't hit. Listen to Dirty Deeds. The groove of that song, particularly the intro is not in the guitar work, it's in the rolling drum work... and the fact he so economically uses the symbol crash.... they are perfect. But AC/DC is a blues band. Rush is a prog band. Dave Matthews is essentially a hod podge of funk, jazz, and rock.

 

Carter is, in my book, a phenom. Does some amazing things.

 

As for the hatred of DMB. I get it, but I am also a fan (more so of the early stuff). But I also love the Commodores, Otis Redding, and a lot of not so heavy stuff to go along with my diet of prog rock and metal. I live in Texas and make a lot of drives across West Texas and into New Mexico. DMB albums are great traveling music, in my mind at least. You really don't want to be too amped up listening to metal going 85 MPH on I-10 in the middle of nowhere (the posted speed limits are 80 MPH through most of the Hill Country and beyond toward El Paso!)

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I don't know, it gets my ass shaking pretty good!

 

Boomp a bis a boomp BAHP BAHP BAHP

Boomp a bis

(stick toss just because)

Boomp

BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP

 

:)

Edited by Del_Duio
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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I hope someone tries to dismiss this fact... ;)

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Blake richardson is a prog metal drummer who grooves imo.

 

I think that the level of groove in neils playing is pretty equal to geds and alexs.

 

Im thinking alex is the grooviest member?

 

I'd say Geddy is. He gets some decent funk going in Leave That Thing Alone -- imagine how much more groovy he'd be on this song with a different drummer behind him.

 

http://youtu.be/zNauuexeMz8

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I hope someone tries to dismiss this fact... ;)

 

That would be a tall order. A four-on-the-floor disco bass drum does not equal groove, at least not in this case. I like Neil's drum part in that song, but there's no funk there.

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Usain Bolt is the greatest athlete on the planet but put him in a race with some olympic 800m non-qualifiers and he'll get beaten, badly.

 

 

Horses for courses. The necessity to be able to "groove" or "swing" is not the be all or end all or drumming. Unless you prefer your drummers to have this quality because it suits the kind of music you like.

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I know Dream Theater is a much maligned band around here, but any drummers should check out their drummer audition videos up on you tube, very interesting. I really wonder if Neil, who inspired all those guys, would have been able to hang. I kinda doubt it.

 

Actually I think the split's around 40/60 against DT here.

I think they're awesome, probably tied for my #1 favorite band.

 

And you're right, technically-speaking at least most of those guys could probably drum around Neil all day and night. Doesn't mean they're BETTER per se, and many probably looked up to Neil in the first place so there's always that too.

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I don't know, it gets my ass shaking pretty good!

 

Boomp a bis a boomp BAHP BAHP BAHP

Boomp a bis

(stick toss just because)

Boomp

BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP

 

:)

Everyone one of those hits are exactly on the beat. It's a cool pattern, but played completely mechanically.

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I hope someone tries to dismiss this fact... ;)

 

That would be a tall order. A four-on-the-floor disco bass drum does not equal groove, at least not in this case. I like Neil's drum part in that song, but there's no funk there.

 

 

I read that Lee and Lifeson defied Peart to play the drum machine pattern they had programmed when writing the music for The Weapon and he stepped up to the mark as only he could.

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I hope someone tries to dismiss this fact... ;)

 

That would be a tall order. A four-on-the-floor disco bass drum does not equal groove, at least not in this case. I like Neil's drum part in that song, but there's no funk there.

 

 

I read that Lee and Lifeson defied Peart to play the drum machine pattern they had programmed when writing the music for The Weapon and he stepped up to the mark as only he could.

 

I don't remember reading that it was posed as a challenge, but I do know that they wrote the pattern on a drum machine and then wrote their parts around that, so Neil had, or chose, to replicate the pattern they came up with. He did it with amazing fidelity. So much so you'd be forgiven if you thought it was a drum machine.

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I hope someone tries to dismiss this fact... ;)

 

That would be a tall order. A four-on-the-floor disco bass drum does not equal groove, at least not in this case. I like Neil's drum part in that song, but there's no funk there.

 

 

I read that Lee and Lifeson defied Peart to play the drum machine pattern they had programmed when writing the music for The Weapon and he stepped up to the mark as only he could.

 

Yes, Neil documented that in the Signals Tour tourbook:

 

With a Roland drum machine and assorted synthesizers, Geddy and friend Oscar secret themselves in Ged's music room to create some music of a highly confidential and experimental nature. Among the Top Secret projects which they produce is the basic foundation for this song, including a highly mysterious and bizarre drum pattern which Oscar coaxes out of the drum machine. (I'm supposed to learn how to play that?)

 

Well, I do love a challenge, and once we start to tackle this at one of the rehearsals, I discover that if I play totally backwards, and bend my hands a few ways they don't normally go, I can do it. The shame of being reduced to learning from a machine! However, I must admit, I would never have come up with something like that on my own!

 

With all this and more to accomplish with my hands, it is no compromise to let my bass drum foot play a steady "four", which is also something I never thought I could do. This also brings the feel of the song perilously close to a (shudder) d-d-d-dance song, like, you know, disco! Treason! Treason! Kill the traitors! They wrote a song you can dance to! Will you ever forgive us? (No.)

 

It was fun to do, though. It's so contrary to the mood suggested by the lyrics, and such a different approach for us, that it is a very satisfying piece of work. It's an all-out production number that we can play live, so I'm sure all the "disco kids" will soon be coming to our concerts. Ha!

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What can he do on the drums that Neil can't?

Groove.

 

The Weapon says hello!

Not an ounce of groove there. His drumming is as stiff as an 80s drum machine.

 

I don't know, it gets my ass shaking pretty good!

 

Boomp a bis a boomp BAHP BAHP BAHP

Boomp a bis

(stick toss just because)

Boomp

BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP BAHP

 

:)

Everyone one of those hits are exactly on the beat. It's a cool pattern, but played completely mechanically.

 

BUTJARG.. THE STICK TOSS JUST BECAUSE!

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