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Neil Peart bashes Kiss' all out marketing Approach


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This is very interesting - great discussion

 

RUSH and KISS, musically quite different in the paths they took ... Sure, in '74 and '75, there was enough common ground to play shows together, and the music, at the time, was similar ..

 

But time signatures and chops aside, I think both bands did a fantastic job in putting themselves into what they did, and as much as I personally love the songs from both, I have always felt a bond with Geddy, Alex and Neil, and Ace, Gene , Peter and Paul the people - which sounds crazy because KISS was in character, but I think that I knew all along that under those costumes were Clark Kents who were able to transform and become superheros ..

 

The meek shall inherit the Earth

 

.... and I think that's why so many blue collar kids identified with KISS in the very early days ..

 

Of course I don't know any of them, but they somehow did their thing with enough sincerity to lure, at least me, in for life - and I'm talking both bands ..

 

.

 

.

Edited by Lucas
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The sad part of this is that the people who bash KISS are the ones who know nothing about their beginnings, and the mountain they eventually overcame ..

 

The origin of The KISS Army had nothing to do with band - it was a couple of fans who decided to take it upon themselves to gather outside a radio station until KISS was played - it was a groundswell across blue-collar America, as KISS was NOT accepted or embraced in the chic or trendy locals such as NYC ....

 

KISS' manager was Bill Aucoin, a first time manager who loved what he saw and financed the tours on his credit cards, putting him tens of thousands of dollars in debt until the band finally broke in late 1975, after 3 years of constant unprofitable touring ...

 

Neil Bogart started Casablanca Records, and KISS was his first act to be signed

 

All those involved were doing this for the first time ... There was no big money machine behind KISS

 

Each member created the character, and between them and their faithful 4 member road crew, they took a station wagon and rented truck and built a following ...

 

Up until Alive! broke, band members were making $65-75 dollars a week constantly touring

 

KISS did not create the KISS Army - The fans did

 

Like them or not, no band has ever taken the DIY approach more serious than KISS .. And say what you want about Gene and Paul - but they started it - they did not join a band, they created one

 

But what you're saying is no different than 99% of every other band that "made it"! Every band started with "humble beginnings" had to work through the trenches...holding down day jobs...doing "pay to play" gigs..handing out flyers...schlepping their own gear from cruddy bar to cruddy bar for no pay...putting their own cash out to get that demo recorded...whatever...Other people created bands! You make it sound like they did something no one else did....

 

What a lot of people don't like about Kiss is that they are like a lot of other cruddy bands with "hook" music and a gimic! (the makeup). They had a hit, (Rock and Roll all night) made themselves available to the music press like crazy, and took every interview possible (and had entertaining interviews)(I'll admit..I hated their music, but loved it when the next issue of Circus had a Gene Simmons interview in it). And marketed the living CRAP out of their gear! After that the only other memorable song they had was Beth...everything else I heard sucked! I had a friend that worked for them...he couldn't believe that I couldn't stand to listen to their stuff...he even told Gene about me, and you know what Gene said? "We're not for everyone...stop trying to force us on him!" (But he did get a kick out of the fact that I used to love to read the interviews back in the 70's)

 

If ya like the music...good for you...I'm not a fan, will never be one... I thought the make up thing was weird...but whatever....

I kind of agree with parts of that. But at the same time, every band has their own unique story. I don't believe "every" band did it the way Kiss did OR had the circumstances surrounding them the way they did. As far as the makeup/costumes gimmick goes, yeah it's a gimmick...but it takes a certain amount of genius to take average musicians making average rock music to the top like Kiss did in the 70s.

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As long as they don't come out with the Rush casket. :facepalm:

Let me tell you about ;rush: condoms

 

"Stick It Out" pre-lubed condoms.

 

Starman logo will be printed on each condom.

 

Have "condom sense" boys and girls.

 

It's a brutal viral world out there.

The Weapon - Ribbed for pleasure

Stay away from those Cygnus X-1s!! From what I heard they're not 100% effective.,,,something about holes?

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The sad part of this is that the people who bash KISS are the ones who know nothing about their beginnings, and the mountain they eventually overcame ..

 

The origin of The KISS Army had nothing to do with band - it was a couple of fans who decided to take it upon themselves to gather outside a radio station until KISS was played - it was a groundswell across blue-collar America, as KISS was NOT accepted or embraced in the chic or trendy locals such as NYC ....

 

KISS' manager was Bill Aucoin, a first time manager who loved what he saw and financed the tours on his credit cards, putting him tens of thousands of dollars in debt until the band finally broke in late 1975, after 3 years of constant unprofitable touring ...

 

Neil Bogart started Casablanca Records, and KISS was his first act to be signed

 

All those involved were doing this for the first time ... There was no big money machine behind KISS

 

Each member created the character, and between them and their faithful 4 member road crew, they took a station wagon and rented truck and built a following ...

 

Up until Alive! broke, band members were making $65-75 dollars a week constantly touring

 

KISS did not create the KISS Army - The fans did

 

Like them or not, no band has ever taken the DIY approach more serious than KISS .. And say what you want about Gene and Paul - but they started it - they did not join a band, they created one

 

But what you're saying is no different than 99% of every other band that "made it"! Every band started with "humble beginnings" had to work through the trenches...holding down day jobs...doing "pay to play" gigs..handing out flyers...schlepping their own gear from cruddy bar to cruddy bar for no pay...putting their own cash out to get that demo recorded...whatever...Other people created bands! You make it sound like they did something no one else did....

 

What a lot of people don't like about Kiss is that they are like a lot of other cruddy bands with "hook" music and a gimic! (the makeup). They had a hit, (Rock and Roll all night) made themselves available to the music press like crazy, and took every interview possible (and had entertaining interviews)(I'll admit..I hated their music, but loved it when the next issue of Circus had a Gene Simmons interview in it). And marketed the living CRAP out of their gear! After that the only other memorable song they had was Beth...everything else I heard sucked! I had a friend that worked for them...he couldn't believe that I couldn't stand to listen to their stuff...he even told Gene about me, and you know what Gene said? "We're not for everyone...stop trying to force us on him!" (But he did get a kick out of the fact that I used to love to read the interviews back in the 70's)

 

If ya like the music...good for you...I'm not a fan, will never be one... I thought the make up thing was weird...but whatever....

 

I say that because a lot of people - fans and even other famous performers - have pinned the "gimmick" thing on KISS, to the extent of, as one poster said here, they were nothing more than The Monkees - basically a prefab, promoted entity - the making of some music industry mastermind ... and that could not be further from the truth, and the only "mastermind" that took them on in 1973 was Neil Bogart ..

 

The ironic thing about this is, as an 8 year old who first heard Rock And Roll All Night on the radio, I loved the song but had no idea what they looked like . . .

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Dynasty tour in 1979 was my first ever concert.

 

That Kiss/Rush double bill in '75 is one of the tours I would most like to be able to time travel back and see. They both absolutely slayed back then (not that Rush still doesn't, but a little less ferociously now) and the tickets were probably like 10 bucks!!!

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As long as they don't come out with the Rush casket. :facepalm:

Let me tell you about ;rush: condoms

 

"Stick It Out" pre-lubed condoms.

 

Starman logo will be printed on each condom.

 

Have "condom sense" boys and girls.

 

It's a brutal viral world out there.

The Weapon - Ribbed for pleasure

Stay away from those Cygnus X-1s!! From what I heard they're not 100% effective.,,,something about holes?

Too thin. Everything is torn apart.
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Actually my direct quote was the Monkees in reverse. I absolutely believe that KISS did market themselves and know how they wanted to be seen by the masses, but their origins were honest. They wanted to dress up as cartoon characters and they did eventually become cartoon characters to a point. When they had exhausted that they stripped off the makeup, but the image still did suffer.

 

If KISS were starting out now they would absolutely be a reality show.

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Actually my direct quote was the Monkees in reverse. I absolutely believe that KISS did market themselves and know how they wanted to be seen by the masses, but their origins were honest. They wanted to dress up as cartoon characters and they did eventually become cartoon characters to a point. When they had exhausted that they stripped off the makeup, but the image still did suffer.

 

If KISS were starting out now they would absolutely be a reality show.

 

WOW what a concept. The fake that's reality and the reality that's fake.

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If KISS were starting out now they would absolutely be a reality show.

Not really. There are a billion repetitive reality tv shows feeding off the infatuation the states has with those shows. I don't remember any kabuki face-painted rockers dressed in leather and breathing fire back then besides Kiss. I guess you could say Alice Cooper, Bowie's Ziggy Stardust phase, and few others were similar but that's not the same as the cheap, effortless production of modern day reality tv bullshit. Those acts worked it hard (regardless of whether or not we liked their final product); reality tv is lazy, mass produced McDonald's style entertainment.

Edited by JohnnyBlaze
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At the time, I liked "Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park". I had to get permission to watch it though. My mother was not amused. Come to think of it, any boy who liked Kiss back then had a mother who was worried about her son getting scarred by like that band.
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At the time, I liked "Kiss Meets the Phantom of the Park". I had to get permission to watch it though. My mother was not amused. Come to think of it, any boy who liked Kiss back then had a mother who was worried about her son getting scarred by like that band.

 

Wow. Completely forgot all about that movie. You now have made me remember it. I will now forever curse you. ;)

 

Clem

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At the end of the day, Rock music is entertainment, more so than jazz or classical. KISS will be the first to tell you that. I think too many Music " fans" take themselves way to seriously. KISS was fun.. Yes, they have overstayed their welcome, and the gimmick is tired now, but back in the 70s and early 80, they were a fun rock band.. And they wrote more than just two good songs... Those early albums had well crafted hard rock tunes .
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As long as they don't come out with the Rush casket. :facepalm:

Let me tell you about ;rush: condoms

 

"Stick It Out" pre-lubed condoms.

 

Starman logo will be printed on each condom.

 

Have "condom sense" boys and girls.

 

It's a brutal viral world out there.

The Weapon - Ribbed for pleasure

Stay away from those Cygnus X-1s!! From what I heard they're not 100% effective.,,,something about holes?

Too thin. Everything is torn apart.

Ouch! My nerve endings!
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At the end of the day, Rock music is entertainment, more so than jazz or classical. KISS will be the first to tell you that. I think too many Music " fans" take themselves way to seriously. KISS was fun.. Yes, they have overstayed their welcome, and the gimmick is tired now, but back in the 70s and early 80, they were a fun rock band.. And they wrote more than just two good songs... Those early albums had well crafted hard rock tunes .

I thought pretty much the same thing this morning. I was listening to Eddie Cochran and it dawned on me that early rock and roll was all about entertainment and rebellion. No intellectual pursuits. No deep thought. No attempts to intentionally "change the world." It was all entertainment geared towards a teenage demographic. Songs about cars, girls, hanging out and annoying your parents. Kiss is rock and roll.

Edited by ReRushed
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Sometimes pure rock and roll is good! Sometimes thoughtful progressive music is good too! I usually prefer the latter but do like the former at times.
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As long as they don't come out with the Rush casket. :facepalm:

Let me tell you about ;rush: condoms

 

"Stick It Out" pre-lubed condoms.

 

Starman logo will be printed on each condom.

 

Have "condom sense" boys and girls.

 

It's a brutal viral world out there.

The Weapon - Ribbed for pleasure

Stay away from those Cygnus X-1s!! From what I heard they're not 100% effective.,,,something about holes?

Too thin. Everything is torn apart.

Black hole? Is that a racial thing or what. Edited by BeOhBe Bob
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The way rock and roll "changed" things early on was the simple fact that it was rebellious by nature ..

 

The term "rock and roll", quite simply, comes from the act of having sex , and back in the day when black rhythm and blues was being combined with white country music, this was very hard for a lot of conservative, religious and/or racist individuals and groups to accept:

 

Their kids were being corrupted by this new form of music that not only had its roots in the black community, but also was linked to sex

 

God forbid

 

So regardless of lyrical content, rock and roll was making a statement by default - simply by being rock and roll

 

It is hard now to imagine how much of a upheaval KISS created, both from the love and obsession of a certain group of kids and from the absolute horror of those who were offended, or overly critical and analytical ..

 

Yes, KISS lost it a long time ago .... But the impact they had was right up there with Little Richard and Elvis bringing a newfound sense of self and life to millions of kids who were otherwise doomed to conservative frustration

 

Rebellion

 

And as much as he wants to bury it now, one thing I will always admire and like about Neil is how he brought the philosophies of Ayn Rand and individualism into RUSH's music early on, in complete contrast to what was so pervasive thru entertainment at that time ....

 

The ironic thing about what Neil said recently - about "never bowing to the man" - is exactly what he has done with his less-than-sincere politically correct act . . .

 

Just because a performer like Little Richard or band like KISS never wrote lyrics with content acceptable for those who feel they need some pseudo-intellectual meaning does not mean that they had any less impact on society or people's lives ..

 

Maybe it just wasn't YOUR life it pertained to

 

 

.

 

 

.

Edited by Lucas
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The way rock and roll "changed" things early on was the simple fact that it was rebellious by nature ..

 

The term "rock and roll", quite simply, comes from the act of having sex , and back in the day when black rhythm and blues was being combined with white country music, this was very hard for a lot of conservative, religious and/or racist individuals and groups to accept:

 

Their kids were being corrupted by this new form of music that not only had its roots in the black community, but also was linked to sex

 

God forbid

 

So regardless of lyrical content, rock and roll was making a statement by default - simply by being rock and roll

 

It is hard now to imagine how much of a upheaval KISS created, both from the love and obsession of a certain group of kids and from the absolute horror of those who were offended, or overly critical and analytical ..

 

Yes, KISS lost it a long time ago .... But the impact they had was right up there with Little Richard and Elvis bringing a newfound sense of self and life to millions of kids who were otherwise doomed to conservative frustration

 

Rebellion

 

And as much as he wants to bury it now, one thing I will always admire and like about Neil is how he brought the philosophies of Ayn Rand and individualism into RUSH's music early on, in complete contrast to what was so pervasive thru entertainment at that time ....

 

The ironic thing about what Neil said recently - about "never bowing to the man" - is exactly what he has done with his less-than-sincere politically correct act . . .

 

Just because a performer like Little Richard or band like KISS never wrote lyrics with content acceptable for those who feel they need some pseudo-intellectual meaning does not mean that they had any less impact on society or people's lives ..

 

Maybe it just wasn't YOUR life it pertained to

 

 

.

 

 

.

 

 

The fact that the two bands got along so well early on proves that KISS weren't just a bunch of dumb Neanderthals . Simmons and Stanley were shrewd businessmen who knew how to tap into teenagers minds with the comic book personas.

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The way rock and roll "changed" things early on was the simple fact that it was rebellious by nature ..

 

The term "rock and roll", quite simply, comes from the act of having sex , and back in the day when black rhythm and blues was being combined with white country music, this was very hard for a lot of conservative, religious and/or racist individuals and groups to accept:

 

Their kids were being corrupted by this new form of music that not only had its roots in the black community, but also was linked to sex

 

God forbid

 

So regardless of lyrical content, rock and roll was making a statement by default - simply by being rock and roll

 

It is hard now to imagine how much of a upheaval KISS created, both from the love and obsession of a certain group of kids and from the absolute horror of those who were offended, or overly critical and analytical ..

 

Yes, KISS lost it a long time ago .... But the impact they had was right up there with Little Richard and Elvis bringing a newfound sense of self and life to millions of kids who were otherwise doomed to conservative frustration

 

Rebellion

 

And as much as he wants to bury it now, one thing I will always admire and like about Neil is how he brought the philosophies of Ayn Rand and individualism into RUSH's music early on, in complete contrast to what was so pervasive thru entertainment at that time ....

 

The ironic thing about what Neil said recently - about "never bowing to the man" - is exactly what he has done with his less-than-sincere politically correct act . . .

 

Just because a performer like Little Richard or band like KISS never wrote lyrics with content acceptable for those who feel they need some pseudo-intellectual meaning does not mean that they had any less impact on society or people's lives ..

 

Maybe it just wasn't YOUR life it pertained to

 

 

.

 

 

.

 

 

The fact that the two bands got along so well early on proves that KISS weren't just a bunch of dumb Neanderthals . Simmons and Stanley were shrewd businessmen who knew how to tap into teenagers minds with the comic book personas.

The comic books and the other things that are pervasive in teenaged boys lives like girls girls and girls and shredding
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I'm sure we can find elements RUSH's marketing plan that were KISS developed.

 

http://i194.photobucket.com/albums/z198/jimmyeightysix/Rush/bastille-day-o.gif

 

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view8/4651441/kiss-deuce-1975-o.gif

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All bands with any degree of success have to embrace marketing, like it or not. Where Kiss and Rush differ, is that Kiss (well Gene Simmons anyway) are totally upfront about being first and foremost a business whose primary function is to make money. There is not necessarily anything wrong in this; they are good entertainers and are giving the punters what they want. Personally, I prefer bands who at least make some attempt to create music that they believe has creative and artistic merit and think that is more important than commercial success.
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Years ago, I seen John Mellencamp "Lonesome Jubilee " tour at Cleveland. Half way through the song Check It Out, John stopped singing halted the band. Lead guitarist came over and talked to him.. Told audience he wrote to many damn words and forgot the rest of it, then started over.. Thought that was a hilarious spontaneous moment. Nah, read newspaper review next day, he did the same shtick at Toledo night before. KISS doing the same banter on stage "great crowd" every night is nothing shocking. Gosh, I hope Geddy wasn't just going through the motions on Time Machine Cleveland gig when he said "Greatest audience ever!" Kinda proud of that accomplishment... ;)
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