Where do you think Rush ranks as individuals on their instruments in rock history?

[Entre_Perpetuo]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

One cannot objectively judge art, so while you may not believe he is the best, many here do, and it seems somewhat unkind to call out others' subjective opinions on music as ridiculous.

[Lucas]

Ranking musicians is always fun for the sake of discussion, but what it comes down to is how a particular musician, or band, moves you - what do they mean to you ?

 

In Alex's case, I think you can put him next to guys like Jimmy Page and even Steve Howe in that they incorporated a diverse range of musical styles and inspirations into their music - these guys were not - and are not - one trick ponies ..

 

Alex had vision beyond just the guitar, and that is a huge reason why RUSH was so interesting and put out so much quality stuff over the long haul ..

 

I never ever got the vibe from Alex that he was simply showing exercises and patterns he practiced over and over - Alex played the song, and he happened to be an excellent guitar player doing it - that, for me, it much more interesting and worthwhile than these forced, so-called "guitar heros" who jump from band to band because it is impossible for them to connect with expressing themselves emotionally ...

 

In other words, Alex never let his ego get in the way, and for that, he is a guitar hero to me

 

Geddy happens to be my all-time favorite bass player, regardless of style ... And I love Geddy's voice, as it was his voice that initially attracted me to RUSH ...

 

I loved the 1970s Neil on drums - he was creative, technical enough to really be able to carry a song yet there was a reckless aspect too - or maybe I should say "exciting" aspect ...... Somewhere down the road though, Neil tightened up way too much for my liking -

 

.

 

.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Lucas

[Rushman2112]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Who?

 

Yeah, this is where I get conflicted as well. I am a huge fan of Neil...I mean, that can't be overstated. No drummer has taught me more than Neil has - by far, period, end of story. But I wouldn't put him ahead of some of the great studio drummers like Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd, Vinne Colaiuta, etc. Steve Smith is another great example. I just like the tastefulness of their playing, and the fact that they are so versatile in that they can play with anyone for any type of music.

 

Now then, all of that said...Neil's presence and importance is still very significant. Neil is and was the right drummer for Rush, even ahead of those guys I listed above, for so many reasons. He did things for rock drumming that (in my opinion) no one had done up until that point. He truly carved his own path. For instance, I feel that Neil truly was a pioneer in the sense that he was also a percussionist - a bit of a lost art these days when it comes to rock drummers.

 

This is all just my opinion. The Rush fan in my wants to put Neil at the top, but the objective drummer in me is just astounded by the sheer ability of some of the other greats.

 

All the guys you named are more jazz/fusion drummers than rock.

[Entre_Perpetuo]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Who?

 

Yeah, this is where I get conflicted as well. I am a huge fan of Neil...I mean, that can't be overstated. No drummer has taught me more than Neil has - by far, period, end of story. But I wouldn't put him ahead of some of the great studio drummers like Dave Weckl, Steve Gadd, Vinne Colaiuta, etc. Steve Smith is another great example. I just like the tastefulness of their playing, and the fact that they are so versatile in that they can play with anyone for any type of music.

 

Now then, all of that said...Neil's presence and importance is still very significant. Neil is and was the right drummer for Rush, even ahead of those guys I listed above, for so many reasons. He did things for rock drumming that (in my opinion) no one had done up until that point. He truly carved his own path. For instance, I feel that Neil truly was a pioneer in the sense that he was also a percussionist - a bit of a lost art these days when it comes to rock drummers.

 

This is all just my opinion. The Rush fan in my wants to put Neil at the top, but the objective drummer in me is just astounded by the sheer ability of some of the other greats.

 

All the guys you named are more jazz/fusion drummers than rock.

Well, Steve "Machine Gun" Smith played in Journey (assuming that's the same awesome drummer Steve Smith). And he's got a great solo on Journey's live album Captured.

[The Cat 3]

Outside of Neil Peart, the members aren't the first thing comes to mind when ranking rock musicians.

 

It's kind of our little secret in a way because they have all mastered their instruments over the years and I can honestly say they continually improve with each album and tour.

 

(I know it took a little longer for Alex to get into a groove this tour, but for legitimate reason).

 

Obviously I have a sentimental place in my heart for all of the early Rush gigs I went to years ago, however they are so much more proficient and tight live today.

 

The same cannot be said for all the bands that started out when they did.

 

As far as how a band "sounds", you have to rank these guys pretty high on the list when you think about all of the musical elements they produce collectively...impressive with their studio efforts but near mind blowing when reproduced live.

Edited August 15, 2015 by ReGorLaTroy

[Lorraine]

I just like the tastefulness of their playing, and the fact that they are so versatile in that they can play with anyone for any type of music.

 

Just want to preface what I am going to ask by saying that it isn't an attack on what you wrote. I don't know what you are talking about and I'm not a musician. In short, I'm ignorant.

 

Are you saying that Neil is only capable of playing rock music?

 

If so, how do you know he isn't versatile?

 

What type of drummer do you have to be to be able to play all types of music?

[MeanMeanPride]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

One cannot objectively judge art, so while you may not believe he is the best, many here do, and it seems somewhat unkind to call out others' subjective opinions on music as ridiculous.

 

I would agree with this, but I want to clarify something. There is a difference between art and artistic ability. Art is always going to be subjective, but artistic ability is not always going to be. For instance, a community orchestra isn't going to play Beethoven nearly as well as a professional major symphony. That much is objective. In other words, you can tell when an amateur is playing the drums, and you can tell when Neil is playing. There's a clear difference, and that is objectively true.

 

The scenario isn't always so clear cut, however. The difference is not so obvious when you're comparing two things of closely-related worth. And that is where you get into the realm of subjectivity, and it's all based on the listener's tastes and preferences. In short, different listeners with varying degrees of musical experience and very unique musical stories are of course going to listen for different things and in different ways.

 

So who is the best rock drummer of all time? There's no way to know. It's just personal opinion. To us and our personal stories, it may feel like fact, especially those of us who have made music a career. But even those opinions are not absolute.

 

I just like the tastefulness of their playing, and the fact that they are so versatile in that they can play with anyone for any type of music.

 

Just want to preface what I am going to ask by saying that it isn't an attack on what you wrote. I don't know what you are talking about and I'm not a musician. In short, I'm ignorant.

 

Are you saying that Neil is only capable of playing rock music?

 

If so, how do you know he isn't versatile?

 

What type of drummer do you have to be to be able to play all types of music?

 

This is a great post because it illustrates perfectly what I'm trying to explain above. I'm listening for different things than other people when I hear a drummer, and so when I hear Weckl and Gadd I use words like "tasteful" to describe their playing. What does tasteful even mean? It doesn't mean anything in terms of actual ability - it's just a descriptor. And you're right - who is to say that Neil isn't a "tasteful" drummer in the ear of the beholder?

 

I'm starting to feel like a rambler. I don't even know if I've actually answered any of these questions. :)

[goose]

I just like the tastefulness of their playing, and the fact that they are so versatile in that they can play with anyone for any type of music.

 

Just want to preface what I am going to ask by saying that it isn't an attack on what you wrote. I don't know what you are talking about and I'm not a musician. In short, I'm ignorant.

 

Are you saying that Neil is only capable of playing rock music?

 

If so, how do you know he isn't versatile?

 

What type of drummer do you have to be to be able to play all types of music?

Neil's greatest strength is his technical skill, the ability to play various rhythms and combinations of beats to create music. You may hear drummers refer to the "rudiments". These are the core drumming patterns that drummers master and combine to make the rhythms that drive their playing. It starts with simple R, L, R, L (right hand, left hand), as 1, 2, 3, 4...then double-time as 1&2&3&4& (eighth notes), then double that as 1-ee-&-a-2-ee-&-a... Then you can make combinations by varying the striking pattern, like RRLL, RLRR, LRLL, RRLR, LLRL, etc. Here's what they look like written out...

 

[EagleMoon]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

One cannot objectively judge art, so while you may not believe he is the best, many here do, and it seems somewhat unkind to call out others' subjective opinions on music as ridiculous.

 

Ultimately it's ONLY opinions since musical ability doesn't really have a scale. For example, who's going to be best reading a piece of sheet music? A lot of musicians in general would fail that test even though they may be great in other ways. Every musician has a strength, and the best ones focus on the strengths and minimize their shortcomings. Could someone like Joe Pass have played prog metal? Possibly, but he wouldn't have played it as well as someone who had been focusing on the genre for years.

[tas7]

Ranking musicians is always fun for the sake of discussion, but what it comes down to is how a particular musician, or band, moves you - what do they mean to you ?

 

In Alex's case, I think you can put him next to guys like Jimmy Page and even Steve Howe in that they incorporated a diverse range of musical styles and inspirations into their music - these guys were not - and are not - one trick ponies ..

 

Alex had vision beyond just the guitar, and that is a huge reason why RUSH was so interesting and put out so much quality stuff over the long haul ..

 

I never ever got the vibe from Alex that he was simply showing exercises and patterns he practiced over and over - Alex played the song, and he happened to be an excellent guitar player doing it - that, for me, it much more interesting and worthwhile than these forced, so-called "guitar heros" who jump from band to band because it is impossible for them to connect with expressing themselves emotionally ...

 

In other words, Alex never let his ego get in the way, and for that, he is a guitar hero to me

 

Geddy happens to be my all-time favorite bass player, regardless of style ... And I love Geddy's voice, as it was his voice that initially attracted me to RUSH ...

 

I loved the 1970s Neil on drums - he was creative, technical enough to really be able to carry a song yet there was a reckless aspect too - or maybe I should say "exciting" aspect ...... Somewhere down the road though, Neil tightened up way too much for my liking -

 

.

 

.

Those three guitarists are my three major influences although I have many. Of the three, Steve Howe is the hardest to play especially when he goes all jazz fusion. To me they are iconic guitarists, you can add Tony Iommi and Ritchie Blackmore, in that they are recognisable, can play a range of styles, and know when to go simple or solo away.

[goose]

What goes into making a drummer so good?

(cont.)

 

So, Lorraine, Neil is famous for his use of rudiments and the variety of percussion (drum) instruments he builds into his song parts. He has great complexity and "musicality" in that sense. Where Neil falls short of other drummers is in his "feel", or the way he plays those parts that he constructs. If there's one valid knock against Neil it's that he is almost always pounding on the drums. He hits them so hard that it lacks subtlety. And that pounding actually impacts the sound of the drum - or cymbal. Think of a piano being pounded on versus lightly played. There's also a question of timing. Some drummers play slightly behind the beat - intentionally - which gives a sense of swing to the rhythm. Neil is almost always driving the rhythm. This constant driving, combined with the forceful pounding, comes across as harsh. It's technical...scientific playing.

 

I think something that makes La Villa Strangiato so special is that it is a rare moment where Neil does swing. He backs off, and the variation in striking power brings emotion to the entire piece. I like Presto for that reason. On Presto, Neil's drumming has great feel, in my opinion.

 

OK...enough of that for now. Great question, Lorraine. This is fun for me.

Edited August 15, 2015 by goose

[MeanMeanPride]

What goes into making a drummer so good?

(cont.)

 

So, Lorraine, Neil is famous for his use of rudiments and the very of percussion (drum) instruments he builds into his song parts. He has great complexity and "musicality" in that sense. Where Neil falls short of other drummers is in his "feel", or the way he plays those parts that he constructs. If there's one valid knock against Neil it's that he is almost always pounding on the drums. He hits them so hard that it lacks subtlety. And that pounding actually impacts the sound of the drum - or cymbal. Think of a piano being pounded on versus lightly played. There's also a question of timing. Some drummers play slightly behind the beat - intentionally - which gives a sense of swing to the rhythm. Neil is almost always driving the rhythm. This constant driving, combined with the forceful pounding, comes across as harsh. It's technical...scientific playing.

 

I think something that makes La Villa Strangiato so special is that it is a rare moment where Neil does swing. He backs off, and the variation in striking power brings emotion to the entire piece. I like Presto for that reason. On Presto, Neil's drumming has great feel, in my opinion.

 

OK...enough of that for now. Great question, Lorraine. This is fun for me.

 

Indeed! I like the "scientific playing" description. There's a reason they call him "The Professor," after all!

 

And is it just me, or did Neil not always used to hit as hard as he does now? I've watched some older videos where he has a little more touch, a little more finesse...but he really does pound these days!

[Tombstone Mountain]

Rank them? How can I rank the band I love? No matter they're ranking against other musicians, they're number one as a unit with me.

[Lorraine]

What goes into making a drummer so good?

(cont.)

 

So, Lorraine, Neil is famous for his use of rudiments and the very of percussion (drum) instruments he builds into his song parts. He has great complexity and "musicality" in that sense. Where Neil falls short of other drummers is in his "feel", or the way he plays those parts that he constructs. If there's one valid knock against Neil it's that he is almost always pounding on the drums. He hits them so hard that it lacks subtlety. And that pounding actually impacts the sound of the drum - or cymbal. Think of a piano being pounded on versus lightly played. There's also a question of timing. Some drummers play slightly behind the beat - intentionally - which gives a sense of swing to the rhythm. Neil is almost always driving the rhythm. This constant driving, combined with the forceful pounding, comes across as harsh. It's technical...scientific playing.

 

I think something that makes La Villa Strangiato so special is that it is a rare moment where Neil does swing. He backs off, and the variation in striking power brings emotion to the entire piece. I like Presto for that reason. On Presto, Neil's drumming has great feel, in my opinion.

 

OK...enough of that for now. Great question, Lorraine. This is fun for me.

 

Don't go yet.

 

If Neil plays without "feel" - please tell me which drummer you think does so I can listen to him to see if I can hear any difference.

[Lorraine]

What goes into making a drummer so good?

(cont.)

 

So, Lorraine, Neil is famous for his use of rudiments and the very of percussion (drum) instruments he builds into his song parts. He has great complexity and "musicality" in that sense. Where Neil falls short of other drummers is in his "feel", or the way he plays those parts that he constructs. If there's one valid knock against Neil it's that he is almost always pounding on the drums. He hits them so hard that it lacks subtlety. And that pounding actually impacts the sound of the drum - or cymbal. Think of a piano being pounded on versus lightly played. There's also a question of timing. Some drummers play slightly behind the beat - intentionally - which gives a sense of swing to the rhythm. Neil is almost always driving the rhythm. This constant driving, combined with the forceful pounding, comes across as harsh. It's technical...scientific playing.

 

I think something that makes La Villa Strangiato so special is that it is a rare moment where Neil does swing. He backs off, and the variation in striking power brings emotion to the entire piece. I like Presto for that reason. On Presto, Neil's drumming has great feel, in my opinion.

 

OK...enough of that for now. Great question, Lorraine. This is fun for me.

 

Indeed! I like the "scientific playing" description. There's a reason they call him "The Professor," after all!

 

And is it just me, or did Neil not always used to hit as hard as he does now? I've watched some older videos where he has a little more touch, a little more finesse...but he really does pound these days!

 

It appeared to me that he was a more fierce drummer back then than he is now. But, what do I know? :lol:

[Principled Man]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Please define "better".

[goose]

What goes into making a drummer so good?

(cont.)

 

So, Lorraine, Neil is famous for his use of rudiments and the very of percussion (drum) instruments he builds into his song parts. He has great complexity and "musicality" in that sense. Where Neil falls short of other drummers is in his "feel", or the way he plays those parts that he constructs. If there's one valid knock against Neil it's that he is almost always pounding on the drums. He hits them so hard that it lacks subtlety. And that pounding actually impacts the sound of the drum - or cymbal. Think of a piano being pounded on versus lightly played. There's also a question of timing. Some drummers play slightly behind the beat - intentionally - which gives a sense of swing to the rhythm. Neil is almost always driving the rhythm. This constant driving, combined with the forceful pounding, comes across as harsh. It's technical...scientific playing.

 

I think something that makes La Villa Strangiato so special is that it is a rare moment where Neil does swing. He backs off, and the variation in striking power brings emotion to the entire piece. I like Presto for that reason. On Presto, Neil's drumming has great feel, in my opinion.

 

OK...enough of that for now. Great question, Lorraine. This is fun for me.

 

Don't go yet.

 

If Neil plays without "feel" - please tell me which drummer you think does so I can listen to him to see if I can hear any difference.

Listen to Toto's Rosanna. That's Jeff Porcaro. If you focus just on the drums, there's an awful lot going on. And you can feel the swing to it. A great example of combining power and feel is John Bonham on Fool in the Rain (edit - oops!). Bonham had great feel...and is often referred to as a great drummer for what he chose not to play, as much as what he played on a song. It creates a tension...a strain... You want to hear something and it's not there...intentionally. Stewart Copeland is another one...especially on the hi-hat. Edited August 15, 2015 by goose

[Ancient Ways]

Neil is top 3 for sure with bonham in there.

Geddy bass is top 3, I also like squire and geezer.

Geddy keys is somewhere around Eddie Van Halen I guess.

Alex is like a character actor. Can't make a movie/song without them but their performance is designed to support.

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Please define "better".

To give an example, I think Mike Mangini is a better drummer than Neil. I MUCH prefer Neil as a player, but Mangini's solos are just insane. He could play Neil's solo without too much trouble, and I just don't think Neil has ever been at the level that it takes to play a solo like Mangini does.

[Principled Man]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Please define "better".

 

To give an example, I think Mike Mangini is a better drummer than Neil. I MUCH prefer Neil as a player, but Mangini's solos are just insane. He could play Neil's solo without too much trouble, and I just don't think Neil has ever been at the level that it takes to play a solo like Mangini does.

 

OK, so your definition of "better" is your personal opinion of drummers and their solos.

 

Thanks.

[New World Kid]

Ranking artists is silly and subjective.

[goose]

Ranking artists is silly and subjective.

I give this post a 6/10.

[LedRush]

Neil and Geddy are top 3, Alex is top 20 for me.

[theredtamasrule]

It's ridiculous to say Neil is the #1 rock drummer of all time. He's one of my very favorites in terms of style, but there are absolutely "better" drummers out there in rock.

 

Please define "better".

 

To give an example, I think Mike Mangini is a better drummer than Neil. I MUCH prefer Neil as a player, but Mangini's solos are just insane. He could play Neil's solo without too much trouble, and I just don't think Neil has ever been at the level that it takes to play a solo like Mangini does.

 

OK, so your definition of "better" is your personal opinion of drummers and their solos.

 

Thanks.

 

I think he's trying to point out that there are guys like Mangini or, say, Virgil Donati, or Colaiuta, that have way more technical prowess and can play more notes easier than Peart but prefers the way Peart plays more than Mangini even though Mangini is more than capable of playing Peart's parts of pulling off one of his solos...though to be sure Mangini is a freak of nature he's so fast.

 

Fast and clean playing may make someone a great player of an instrument but doesn't necessarily mean they're a good musician or can create interesting music.

[Maverick]

Not many posts I see. Welcome to the TRF if you are relatively new here... :cheers:

 

I used to be on AMR, but I'm glad to be here. Cheers. (now drinking a Rebel Rouser - a little too hoppy for me)

 

Gimme dem hops!