What is "The Trees" about?

[fraroc]

In the end, the bitch didn't even believe in her own bullshit because she signed up for Medicare and Social Security in the final days of her life, what a fake.

Seriously? You certainly must be able to understand why doing that was perfectly consistent with her beliefs, don't you?

 

I don't know which Ayn Rand you're taking about, but the one I'm referring to was rabidly anti-handout, anti assistance from anyone, especially the government for most of her life, but proved her hypocrisy in the end.

[laughedatbytime]

In the end, the bitch didn't even believe in her own bullshit because she signed up for Medicare and Social Security in the final days of her life, what a fake.

Seriously? You certainly must be able to understand why doing that was perfectly consistent with her beliefs, don't you?

 

I don't know which Ayn Rand you're taking about, but the one I'm referring to was rabidly anti-handout, anti assistance from anyone, especially the government for most of her life, but proved her hypocrisy in the end.

I'm talking about the real one not your caricature of her. But if you need more time to figure out the answer to this simple question, that's fine.

 

I will give a hint if you ask nicely though.

[blueschica]

So nice to come back from vacation and find 1. lightning blew out Comcast service to our house (still waiting to get all corrected) and 2. the articulate vocabulary in some of the posts on this page. Sheesh. :o

[goose]

So nice to come back from vacation and find 1. lightning blew out Comcast service to our house (still waiting to get all corrected) and 2. the articulate vocabulary in some of the posts on this page. Sheesh. :o

Spreading the message of tolerance can be a vicious enterprise, apparently.

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

It's about the insanity of mediocre people expecting great people to stop being great.

 

The fantastic animated film from Pixar, The Incredibles, addressed the same issue. Superheroes were shunned by society for being great (and for accidentally causing collateral damage), and were forced to become like everyone else - mediocre and "normal". Bob Parr (Mr. Incredible) was all for his super-fast son, Dash, competing in his school's track meets. Bob's wife, Helen (Elasti-Girl), disagreed. She wanted their family to fit in with Society, so she wanted Dash to learn that "everyone is special".

 

Ayn Rand addressed the same issue. She loathed the idea of being "like everyone else". She fiercely supported being one's own self, striving for and achieving greatness, and not dumbing yourself down just to make Society happy.

 

The Oaks can't help how they were made. They're tall, strong, mighty.....why should they have to be like the mediocre Maples?

 

Techinically, everyone is special. Why don't you tell me the last time that you saw two people exactly alike, in personality, looks etc...We're not clones.

 

BTW, Ayn Rand is a selfish fu.cking c,unt and no one should respect her. In the end, the bitch didn't even believe in her own bullshit because she signed up for Medicare and Social Security in the final days of her life, what a fake.

You clearly don't have the faintest idea of what Ayn Rand believes in.

[laughedatbytime]

So nice to come back from vacation and find 1. lightning blew out Comcast service to our house (still waiting to get all corrected) and 2. the articulate vocabulary in some of the posts on this page. Sheesh. :o

Spreading the message of tolerance can be a vicious enterprise, apparently.

Those that don't go along need to be dealt with somehow.

[Principled Man]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

It's about the insanity of mediocre people expecting great people to stop being great.

 

The fantastic animated film from Pixar, The Incredibles, addressed the same issue. Superheroes were shunned by society for being great (and for accidentally causing collateral damage), and were forced to become like everyone else - mediocre and "normal". Bob Parr (Mr. Incredible) was all for his super-fast son, Dash, competing in his school's track meets. Bob's wife, Helen (Elasti-Girl), disagreed. She wanted their family to fit in with Society, so she wanted Dash to learn that "everyone is special".

 

Ayn Rand addressed the same issue. She loathed the idea of being "like everyone else". She fiercely supported being one's own self, striving for and achieving greatness, and not dumbing yourself down just to make Society happy.

 

The Oaks can't help how they were made. They're tall, strong, mighty.....why should they have to be like the mediocre Maples?

 

Techinically, everyone is special. Why don't you tell me the last time that you saw two people exactly alike, in personality, looks etc...We're not clones.

 

Technically, everyone is unique. One of a kind. Indeed, we are not clones. We're more like snowflakes; no two of us are alike. Not even identical twins are absolutely the same.

 

But not everyone is special. On a personal and emotional level, we can be special to our friends and family - to people who know us well. From Society's point of view, though, most of us are mediocre, middle of the road, average.

 

Most of us won't ever be superheroes, or Albert Einstein, or Leonardo Da Vinci. That's fine with me, though. I like my life the way it is. I'm special to the people who are special to me. That's all I need.

 

[Narps]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

It's about the insanity of mediocre people expecting great people to stop being great.

 

The fantastic animated film from Pixar, The Incredibles, addressed the same issue. Superheroes were shunned by society for being great (and for accidentally causing collateral damage), and were forced to become like everyone else - mediocre and "normal". Bob Parr (Mr. Incredible) was all for his super-fast son, Dash, competing in his school's track meets. Bob's wife, Helen (Elasti-Girl), disagreed. She wanted their family to fit in with Society, so she wanted Dash to learn that "everyone is special".

 

Ayn Rand addressed the same issue. She loathed the idea of being "like everyone else". She fiercely supported being one's own self, striving for and achieving greatness, and not dumbing yourself down just to make Society happy.

 

The Oaks can't help how they were made. They're tall, strong, mighty.....why should they have to be like the mediocre Maples?

 

Techinically, everyone is special. Why don't you tell me the last time that you saw two people exactly alike, in personality, looks etc...We're not clones.

 

Technically, everyone is unique.

 

But not everyone is special. On a personal and emotional level, we can be special to our friends and family - to people who know us well. From Society's point of view, though, most of us are mediocre, middle of the road, average.

 

^^^ Yep...

[fraroc]

Okay, enlighen me. Why don't you please tell me how Ayn Rand really was?

[Geddy's Soul Patch]

Okay, enlighen me. Why don't you please tell me how Ayn Rand really was?

Well, as far as accepting Medicare and SS goes, she wasn't against reaping the "benefits" of a system one is forced to pay into.

[laughedatbytime]

Okay, enlighen me. Why don't you please tell me how Ayn Rand really was?

Give up on the answer to the simple question posed above?

 

OK, it's not hard, but apparently it's beyond you, so I'll give you a hint. Social Security and Medicare taxes were mandatory, and paying them reduced her wealth by the amount she was forced to pay. Therefore she viewed getting these benefits as a reduction in the amount that was stolen from her in the form of taxes. It would be the height of silliness to say that if you don't believe that a social program with mandatory taxes should be enacted, when you ultimately have no choice in the matter, that you can't take benefits because you don't think the program should have been started. It would be like if you were robbed and you had a chance to get back some of what was stolen from you and you said no, that's OK, because you didn't think robbery should be legal.

[Lucas]

geeesh, some of the hate for Ayn Rand approaches Westboro Baptist Church mentality in terms of rationale and lack of emotional control . .

 

BTW - I really love the little interlude in The Trees that starts about 1:47 into the song

 

Pure Rush bliss

 

 

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Edited June 28, 2015 by Lucas

[Rick N. Backer]

Okay, time to climb on the soapbox. Now this is not trying to objectively define what The Trees is about, this is just my personal intepretation after listening to the song a lot. It is indeed a damn good song :) I'll rundown the lyrics and with each verse, explain my point.

 

Okay...

 

The Oaks: The Mainstream Media

 

The Maples: LGBT people

 

The Sunlight: Representation in the media

 

"There is unrest in the forest, there is trouble with the trees,

for the maples want more sunlight and the oaks ignore their pleas."

 

Pretty self explanatory. A lot of LGBT people I know would like to see more openly gay, bisexual, or transgender characters on TV shows in mainstream media represented in the same way straight characters are, however it seems that a lot of shows don't listen to what they want and either flat out ignore their pleas, or make LGBT characters a walking, breathing stereotype.

 

"The trouble with the maples, and they're quite convinced they're right

They say the oaks are just to lofty and they grab up all the light,

But the oaks can't help their feelings if they like the way they're made.

And they wonder why the maples can't be happy in their shade."

 

Okay, with this one, we see LGBT people making their point that they don't get equal representation in the media. However the mainstream media has trouble understanding their plight. Even if the head honchos support gay rights, they simply don't get what the other side wants and they wonder why they can't be happy with the gay characters already on TV. (The really stereotypical background characters that don't get much characterization or just exist solely to be a token.)

 

"There is trouble in the forest and the creatures all have fled,

as the maples scream "OPPRESSION" and the oaks just shake their heads."

 

Once again, both sides are at a standstill. Maybe instead of screaming "Oppression!" they scream "Inequality!", either way, the top media execs still have trouble figuring out what the LGBT community wants, despite having it been explained to them several times.

 

 

"So the maples formed a union and demanded equal rights.

The oaks are just too greedy, we will make them give us light!"

 

Realistically, instead of a union, petitions would be made to give the LGBT community a voice, "Let them know we want equality in the media!"

 

"Now there's no more oak oppression, for they passed a noble law,

and the tress are all kept equal by hatchet, axe and saw."

 

Now this last line of the song was pretty difficult to interpret. This scenario would totally not end up in people cutting up each other like trees. This where it stops being literal and starts being figurative. My interpretation of this final line is....this is an example of how banning things to avoid offending people is toxic to both sides. The "noble law" is a law that states that no TV show can display any heterosexual couples at the risk of offending LGBT people. It was put in place as a f***ed up alternative to giving the LGBT community what they wanted the whole time. All they wanted was main, non stereotypical characters that are gay, bi, trans or any letter on the acronym.

 

There is no more oppression or inequality, but there is also no more satisfaction. The LGBT community never got what they desired, and now everyone else is effected by the so-called "Noble Law"

 

"They say the oaks are just too lofty, and and they grab up all the light."

 

"[The LGBT community] say the [mainstream media] are just too [close to the media], and they grab up all the [representation in the media]."

 

That doesn't make any sense.

[JARG]

It's always struck me as a cautionary tale about the "evils of socialism".

[goose]

Okay, enlighen me. Why don't you please tell me how Ayn Rand really was?

Well, as far as accepting Medicare and SS goes, she wasn't against reaping the "benefits" of a system one is forced to pay into.

Recouping a fraction of what was taken from her.

[JARG]

Here's from the article (yes, Neil is now embarrassed, but is too proud to back down so he says that he still stands by it):

And "The Trees," an allegorical power ballad about maples dooming a forest by agitating for "equal rights" with lofty oaks...

Yes, but like many on the left, the Maples were conflating equal rights with equal outcomes, which is what socialism strives for. Part of the genius of the song is that it brings this misunderstanding/intentional "confusing" into focus.

 

In any event, as I said, even though Neil claims to still stand by that, his "bent" is in another direction. That's what I got from the article. That man is quite the dude - seems a bundle of contradictions to me.

 

Is that quote from Neil or from the article writer? I have a hard time imagining Neil referring to The Trees as a "power ballad".

[stone and a hard place]

back in the 80's when I first became familiar with this song I heard an alegory about labor laws and unions--in fact I wrote an english paper on this that received an A and was published in my high school literary collection.

 

now I just hear a song about trees.

[RushIslander]

I think Neil was influenced by The Carpet Crawlers by Genesis from the lyrics..."Like the forest fight for sunlight that takes root in every tree

They are pulled up by the magnet believing they're free", imo.

[Lorraine]

Here's from the article (yes, Neil is now embarrassed, but is too proud to back down so he says that he still stands by it):

And "The Trees," an allegorical power ballad about maples dooming a forest by agitating for "equal rights" with lofty oaks...

Yes, but like many on the left, the Maples were conflating equal rights with equal outcomes, which is what socialism strives for. Part of the genius of the song is that it brings this misunderstanding/intentional "confusing" into focus.

 

In any event, as I said, even though Neil claims to still stand by that, his "bent" is in another direction. That's what I got from the article. That man is quite the dude - seems a bundle of contradictions to me.

 

Is that quote from Neil or from the article writer? I have a hard time imagining Neil referring to The Trees as a "power ballad".

From the man who wrote the article. Don't you worry, If Neil disagrees, he'll write a three page letter to the editor of RS taking the author to task and explaining why he is mistaken.

[goose]

I think Neil was influenced by The Carpet Crawlers by Genesis from the lyrics..."Like the forest fight for sunlight that takes root in every tree

They are pulled up by the magnet believing they're free", imo.

:like:

[RUSHHEAD666]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

I wrote a paper on this song when I was in college. I got an A+. It's so obvious to me but it's just my opinion. The word "shade" is in reference to the African American. The oaks are the greedy white people who take up all the "light."

 

"Shade" could relate to any other race now that I think about it. The white man destroyed the Indians. Asians too. Hell the white man is pure barbarian. Even in the modern age.

 

"Manhattan Project!"

[laughedatbytime]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

I wrote a paper on this song when I was in college. I got an A+. It's so obvious to me but it's just my opinion. The word "shade" is in reference to the African American. The oaks are the greedy white people who take up all the "light."

 

"Shade" could relate to any other race now that I think about it. The white man destroyed the Indians. Asians too. Hell the white man is pure barbarian. Even in the modern age.

 

"Manhattan Project!"

Playing to the prejudices of your professors never hurts one's grades, so well done. But what is accomplished by reducing the status of another? Shouldn't it be the case where we allow those who have been traditionally discriminated against to achieve and grow? If that was Neil's intent, he could have chosen a much better metaphor.

 

On the other hand, it's a perfect metaphor for socialism.

[antiquark]

I've always interpreted it as people bickering among themselves and not paying attention to some serious external threat (i.e. the woodsmen) who then arrive and basically kill everyone (chop them down).

 

So Neil was very prescient with this song. It's obviously about the threat of global warming, decades before it became a mainstream topic.

[rftag]

Maybe it's about noise tolerance legislation.

 

The bickering amongst the trees was so loud it caused the forest creatures to flee. It presumably irked humans in subdivisions within earshot as well.

 

Perhaps the creatures who fled the forest, in concert with local human residents within earshot, then got their local government representative to pass a noble law to cut down the loud, weird ass talking maples and oaks. The creatures perhaps then returned to the forest to live in peace and quiet forever after, perhaps with some docile pine trees planted in their stead.

 

They should have kept a few bickering maples and oaks around as a tourist attraction. I'd pay to see trees bickering.

 

[i read somewhere that in an actual forest ecosystem, maples get more sunlight than oaks, but I digress...]

 

 

 

 

 

[RUSHHEAD666]

About the insanity of equal rights?

 

I wrote a paper on this song when I was in college. I got an A+. It's so obvious to me but it's just my opinion. The word "shade" is in reference to the African American. The oaks are the greedy white people who take up all the "light."

 

"Shade" could relate to any other race now that I think about it. The white man destroyed the Indians. Asians too. Hell the white man is pure barbarian. Even in the modern age.

 

"Manhattan Project!"

Playing to the prejudices of your professors never hurts one's grades, so well done. But what is accomplished by reducing the status of another? Shouldn't it be the case where we allow those who have been traditionally discriminated against to achieve and grow? If that was Neil's intent, he could have chosen a much better metaphor.

 

On the other hand, it's a perfect metaphor for socialism.

 

Thank you my friend.

 

Makes sense since Canada is a Socialistic Nation. The USA is becoming one.

 

I'm moving to New Zealand.