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Please stop whining


coventry
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So I'm really late to reply here and I will say right off the bat that I did not read all the posts. So forgive me if I repeat the thoughts of others.

 

Is the premise that if I speak out against escalating ticket costs, scalpers, or God forbid, bands that claim to be "all about the fans" proving to be everything but that-- WHINING??? If so, well.... Call me a whiner, because I will never stop seeing the world for what it is at times. I love Rush. I have loved them for 35 of my 45 years but I have no doubt that Rush is in fact, all about the money. If they wanted to control costs, they could and they would. If they wanted to take care of Backstage members and ensure that scalpers and bots didn't take over, the could and they would. The truth is--- and this may be a little hard for some--- Rush is about getting as much as they can from each and every one of us. Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with this. What I struggle with is this notion that Rush is engaged in some sort of musical philanthropy. They play exactly what pleases them at the time and they charge whatever they believe they can get for a ticket. If they could get $200 in Denver, a la Fleetwood Mac, they certainly would.

 

Truthfully, it's not really the money that bothers me. It's the lack of protection for the fan club folks that have been with them FOREVER. Take a look at other bands with similar followings, nearly all of them take much better care of their fans. I've never drawn worse than row 3 for Iron Maiden (even in Europe) and I've never stood next to anyone that didn't have the cred of a long-time fan. On the C.A. tour I landed my first front row seat for Rush (by chance after seeing every tour since GUP) and I stood next to three people that had never seen a Rush show and were given their tickets by a work associate who, "had a bunch of extras."

 

The Rush pre-sales have been awful since... Well since forever. People have asked/begged for a little fan-love from Anthem and we've never been heard. Or perhaps we have been heard but Anthem just doesn't really give a crap. I suppose that's their right. Sometimes we just want so desperately for our heroes to be someone they're not. Geddy Lee is not Steve Harris. When Harris says, "It's all about the fans" I can believe him.

 

Now, on the flipside: They do give us one hell of a show and they are the greatest trio to ever take the stage.

 

I don't think Rush has ever been too vocal about the synergy and connection with their fandom. Outside of Geddy's shout-out to the "Glaswegian chorus" on the ESL liner notes and the surprised acknowledgment of how rabid the Brazilian fans were on the R30 documentary, this has been a band who has for the most part remained aloof and distant from the fans that created them.

 

I don't think they "owe" us anything. They've filled the last 26 years of my life with indelible music. That's all I could ask for. This idea that we as hardcore fans "deserve" something seems self-entitled.

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"I don't think they "owe" us anything. They've filled the last 26 years of my life with indelible music. That's all I could ask for. This idea that we as hardcore fans "deserve" something seems self-entitled."

 

+1 :yes:

 

Its all about reciprocity. Give-give = Win-win. Imo Rush has failed to keep up their end of the equation.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

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Point was, those presales and fan club accesses are limited. They do not represent the bulk of the tickets.

 

Then I do not understand how TM resale can have 2472 tickets for resale and Stub Hub 2245 tickets for sale for the Tampa show THE DAY BEFORE the public sale. These were tickets with section, row and seat number - in some cases, you could find entire rows on the floor for resale (At ~3 to 10 times face) before the public sale ever happened. Yeah, it's not a majority of the tickets in a ~20k seat venue (~15k for end stage concert?) - but the preponderance of floor and lower bowl tickets availabe for resale before public sale and experience of fans largely getting offered crap upper bowl tickets during presale strongly suggests that ticket sales are not "random pulls" or that it's even "free market" ecomonics. I think many are not "whining" about face prices - it's the massively inflated prices that a rigged system has created.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

Really...?

 

Is it because a 'best of' setlist would be too mundane for you?

 

Or a 'deep cuts' setlist may be.... too deep for you?

 

Or whatever Rush plans on playing, including A/B alternates, may just be not to your liking, at least not enough to attend the show?

 

I can understand how a certain setlist could greatly enhance your concert experience....

 

...but to have the setlist alone, determine if you are attending or not...

 

I think you should save your money and spin your favorites at home.

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Point was, those presales and fan club accesses are limited. They do not represent the bulk of the tickets.

 

Then I do not understand how TM resale can have 2472 tickets for resale and Stub Hub 2245 tickets for sale for the Tampa show THE DAY BEFORE the public sale. These were tickets with section, row and seat number - in some cases, you could find entire rows on the floor for resale (At ~3 to 10 times face) before the public sale ever happened. Yeah, it's not a majority of the tickets in a ~20k seat venue (~15k for end stage concert?) - but the preponderance of floor and lower bowl tickets availabe for resale before public sale and experience of fans largely getting offered crap upper bowl tickets during presale strongly suggests that ticket sales are not "random pulls" or that it's even "free market" ecomonics. I think many are not "whining" about face prices - it's the massively inflated prices that a rigged system has created.

 

Well, it's not hard to understand if you know the business of the secondary market. Brokers can advertise those seats pre-sale because they KNOW they're going to acquire a vast array of said seats, not via this 'rigged' system everyone keeps whining about, but because of their sheer manpower in being able to flood those general sales with their people doing the SAME things we all do at 10 am....click through the TM process as fast as possible, purchase said tickets, then resell them. The reason they have so many? Because they HIRE people to scoop up those tickets, via online checkout, just as we do. The problem is numbers...they simply have more people snatching up the opportunities for good seats than we do at home (on average, most of us just have one computer, with one ISP address, reserving one spot in the TM queue line). They literally have hundreds of people spread across the country doing this for every single high demand show that goes on sale online. They also have long term contracts with season ticket holders and corporate VIP comps, who, should they decide not to attend said show, throw up their premium seating for sale on StubHub or TicketsNow sites.

 

I realize it's more palatable for most folks to want to believe there's a conspiracy afoot, that TM MUST be holding back those premium seats to ensure their placement on their secondary market subsidiaries, but the truth is much simpler. They have more runners jockeying for position in the queue line. MANY more than your one household. It's simply a matter of numbers.

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I think it's actually live nation that controls most of the tickets, since they are the promoter, and they have the right to block off tickets for their major customers (ticket brokers). Since live nation merged with ticketmaster, technically they are under the same corporate umbrella. But historically the broker has always had the right to control tickets, since they front large minimum fees to the artists.
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"I don't think they "owe" us anything. They've filled the last 26 years of my life with indelible music. That's all I could ask for. This idea that we as hardcore fans "deserve" something seems self-entitled."

 

+1 :yes:

 

Its all about reciprocity. Give-give = Win-win. Imo Rush has failed to keep up their end of the equation.

 

As you can tell by the lackluster reception their music has been getting and how sparsely attended their shows are

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

They're limited to playing songs that Geddy can actually sing. Unfortunately that eliminates much of their earlier work. Most "old Rush good/new Rush bad" fans have trouble understanding or accepting that, and they get flustered when they don't play all of Hemispheres.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

They're limited to playing songs that Geddy can actually sing. Unfortunately that eliminates much of their earlier work. Most "old Rush good/new Rush bad" fans have trouble understanding or accepting that, and they get flustered when they don't play all of Hemispheres.

 

:yes: And even with songs that he can sing, surely they must consider whether playing them will be so strenuous as to negatively affect the rest of the performance...

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

Seriously? Um, how much "integrity" have they lost, iyho? Please, do tell. That is, after you get done dressing down the band for their lack of set creativity and selfish nonconformity.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

They're limited to playing songs that Geddy can actually sing. Unfortunately that eliminates much of their earlier work. Most "old Rush good/new Rush bad" fans have trouble understanding or accepting that, and they get flustered when they don't play all of Hemispheres.

 

Problem is, "old Rush" fans have a cutoff of Signals (1982), some 33 years ago.

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

Seriously? Um, how much "integrity" have they lost, iyho? Please, do tell. That is, after you get done dressing down the band for their lack of set creativity and selfish nonconformity.

 

Gemini makes his living playing the malcontent card. Only a time machine set to 1979 would make him happy. Don't take him too seriously.

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Point was, those presales and fan club accesses are limited. They do not represent the bulk of the tickets.

 

Then I do not understand how TM resale can have 2472 tickets for resale and Stub Hub 2245 tickets for sale for the Tampa show THE DAY BEFORE the public sale. These were tickets with section, row and seat number - in some cases, you could find entire rows on the floor for resale (At ~3 to 10 times face) before the public sale ever happened. Yeah, it's not a majority of the tickets in a ~20k seat venue (~15k for end stage concert?) - but the preponderance of floor and lower bowl tickets availabe for resale before public sale and experience of fans largely getting offered crap upper bowl tickets during presale strongly suggests that ticket sales are not "random pulls" or that it's even "free market" ecomonics. I think many are not "whining" about face prices - it's the massively inflated prices that a rigged system has created.

 

It's been rigged for 20 years running man.

 

I got 10th row tickets for the Roll The Bones Tour back in 92 at $95 a ticket. Do you know what the face value was on those? 35 bucks.

 

170% premium. Seems cheap now...but 23 years ago that was a lot of money for a concert.

 

A lot of these floor seats are VIP tickets at $400 face and people are asking for a 100% mark up on them. So the VIP system for the fans has now turned on us. The brokers and scalpers got whiff of it and since they did not do what they did the last two tours with will call pick-up (which should never have been taken away for VIP tickets) the blood sucking brokers pounced. Also season ticket holders have become more and more prevalent and brokers are the ones who become these so-called season ticket holders as a business investment.

 

It sucks. But it is the reality. I am lucky I snagged great lower bowl seats for Tampa in the pre-sale and lucky I had a great connection for my floor Vegas tickets. Otherwise I would have been waiting till the week of the show to snag tickets from desperate sellers.

Edited by Todem
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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

They're limited to playing songs that Geddy can actually sing. Unfortunately that eliminates much of their earlier work. Most "old Rush good/new Rush bad" fans have trouble understanding or accepting that, and they get flustered when they don't play all of Hemispheres.

 

Been waiting for Hemispheres since 1982!!! (when I first saw Rush live). It ain't happening! When they played Prelude on the CP tour I went ape shit....thought it was finally happening.....but no. And he was strainng back then...badly.

 

Hell I have been pining for Jacobs Ladder a song so undemanding vocally you could not ask for a better old Rush song to bring out.

 

Still waiting.

Edited by Todem
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Point was, those presales and fan club accesses are limited. They do not represent the bulk of the tickets.

 

Then I do not understand how TM resale can have 2472 tickets for resale and Stub Hub 2245 tickets for sale for the Tampa show THE DAY BEFORE the public sale. These were tickets with section, row and seat number - in some cases, you could find entire rows on the floor for resale (At ~3 to 10 times face) before the public sale ever happened. Yeah, it's not a majority of the tickets in a ~20k seat venue (~15k for end stage concert?) - but the preponderance of floor and lower bowl tickets availabe for resale before public sale and experience of fans largely getting offered crap upper bowl tickets during presale strongly suggests that ticket sales are not "random pulls" or that it's even "free market" ecomonics. I think many are not "whining" about face prices - it's the massively inflated prices that a rigged system has created.

 

It's been rigged for 20 years running man.

 

I got 10th row tickets for the Roll The Bones Tour back in 92 at $95 a ticket. Do you know what the face value was on those? 35 bucks.

 

170% premium. Seems cheap now...but 23 years ago that was a lot of money for a concert.

 

A lot of these floor seats are VIP tickets at $400 face and people are asking for a 100% mark up on them. So the VIP system for the fans has now turned on us. The brokers and scalpers got whiff of it and since they did not do what they did the last two tours with will call pick-up (which should never have been taken away for VIP tickets) the blood sucking brokers pounced. Also season ticket holders have become more and more prevalent and brokers are the ones who become these so-called season ticket holders as a business investment.

 

It sucks. But it is the reality. I am lucky I snagged great lower bowl seats for Tampa in the pre-sale and lucky I had a great connection for my floor Vegas tickets. Otherwise I would have been waiting till the week of the show to snag tickets from desperate sellers.

 

 

 

You complain about the scalpers, but on the other hand admit to supporting them. What am I missing here?

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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

They're limited to playing songs that Geddy can actually sing. Unfortunately that eliminates much of their earlier work. Most "old Rush good/new Rush bad" fans have trouble understanding or accepting that, and they get flustered when they don't play all of Hemispheres.

 

I've taken this into consideration. There are alternate ways to circumvent Ged's limitations. If they want to present those songs in a different manner, they can, but its easier for them just to whine about the intricacies involved in doing so and not play songs they'd just prefer to flush. I'm sick of hearing the bullchit excuses. If they won't make an effort then, pardon moi, but F.M.

Edited by GeminiRising79
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Not-buying-tickets-until-I-see-the-setlist crew, checking in.

 

I understand the band plans to invite you to rehearsals so you can see the setlist firsthand, because your attendance is REALLY important to them. They're actually pretty nervous about it as they'd be forced to consider canceling the tour if you couldn't attend. :(

 

Well, imo, they should simply cancel any tour plans if its a continuation of a tour with the SOS. I mean, seriously, at this stage of the game its now or never- pull out the big guns or go into fckin' retirement. Who has the time or patience for them adhering to old philosophies regarding tour protocol? "Oh, we'll never do a greatest hits tour like all those down-and-out loser bands". Get over yourselves, ffs. If Rush won't perform a setlist worthy of representing songs crucial to their development and success and satisfying their "deepest" fans, then they've lost any remaining integrity they have left.

 

Seriously? Um, how much "integrity" have they lost, iyho? Please, do tell. That is, after you get done dressing down the band for their lack of set creativity and selfish nonconformity.

 

Gemini makes his living playing the malcontent card. Only a time machine set to 1979 would make him happy. Don't take him too seriously.

 

There are no cards being "played". I'm telling it like it is.

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