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Why is there so much hate against Snakes & Arrows?


YYZumbi
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I just gave S&A a listen and really enjoyed it. The only tunes I could take or leave are Larger Bowl and Hope.

 

You picked 2 of the 5 ok ones, for me. Hope is so short, how can you hate it? And even if you do, it doesn't provide enough time to hit the bathroom like Armour and Sword or Spindrift. Add the Way the Wind Blows, and you can have a toke and get a beer and miss nothing.

 

I don't hate either of the songs. Hope is fine, but it doesn't need to be part of the album. The Larger Bowl is a fine song, just not as interesting to me as others on the record.

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What did people on the forum think when the record first came out? I wasn't a member back then.

 

Also, I'm not very successful using the search function on this thing...

Edited by toymaker
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What did people on the forum think when the record first came out? I wasn't a member back then.

 

Also, I'm not very successful using the search function on this thing...

That's a good question, and I'd like to read the threads myself.

 

This is an assignment for Len. If we can get him out of Spam long enough to fetch the threads for us. :unsure:

 

In the meantime, I will see what I can do, but I'm not much better than you at this, Toymaker.

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There was a Snakes sub forum a while back if I'm not mistaken (Internet Archive said there was one)... there SHOULD be a few hundred threads which were last posted to in 2008. If I could find the right page on the subforum I could see how people reacted...
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Yes, thanks. Loads of reading there! It seems there were a few mixed feelings, but I haven't read too much yet.

I thought Rushgoober's take on the album was spot on
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I know from where I was reading stuff at the time that it was very well received. But then you've got to take into consideration what came before it. Almost anything would've been well received. However that being said, I do like the album.
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Geddy's three favorite Rush albums are: Power Windows, Roll The Bones, and Test For Echo. :unsure:

 

Really? I didn't know that. I was aware of how highly he regards Power Windows (which I used to not care for very much, but just in the past two or three years I discovered I love it tremendously), but not the other two.

That's what it says in my Rush book.

 

What's the name of this book please ?

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Geddy's three favorite Rush albums are: Power Windows, Roll The Bones, and Test For Echo. :unsure:

 

Really? I didn't know that. I was aware of how highly he regards Power Windows (which I used to not care for very much, but just in the past two or three years I discovered I love it tremendously), but not the other two.

That's what it says in my Rush book.

 

What's the name of this book please ?

I believe it's Contents Under Pressure
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Geddy's three favorite Rush albums are: Power Windows, Roll The Bones, and Test For Echo. :unsure:

 

Really? I didn't know that. I was aware of how highly he regards Power Windows (which I used to not care for very much, but just in the past two or three years I discovered I love it tremendously), but not the other two.

That's what it says in my Rush book.

 

What's the name of this book please ?

I believe it's Contents Under Pressure

 

Thanks :)

Edited by Tuesday's Gone
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Is S&A generally hated? Most Rush fans I know IRL seem to regard it as anywhere from pretty good to awesome, rarely as bad.

 

I myself like the album, but how much I like it seems to vary with every listen. Sometimes I'm struck with the sense that it is a very underrated album that should rank up their on the short list of their bests, and other times it doesn't move me nearly as much. I suppose on that basis I would have to rate it below such obvious first tier albums as PeW and 2112 and such (which never fail to move me if I'm in the mood to listen to them), but it still overall strikes me as a pretty damn good record, even if I'm not quite sure where it fits in the pantheon of great Rush albums.

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Is S&A generally hated? Most Rush fans I know IRL seem to regard it as anywhere from pretty good to awesome, rarely as bad.

 

I myself like the album, but how much I like it seems to vary with every listen. Sometimes I'm struck with the sense that it is a very underrated album that should rank up their on the short list of their bests, and other times it doesn't move me nearly as much. I suppose on that basis I would have to rate it below such obvious first tier albums as PeW and 2112 and such (which never fail to move me if I'm in the mood to listen to them), but it still overall strikes me as a pretty damn good record, even if I'm not quite sure where it fits in the pantheon of great Rush albums.

 

I like your post, and more or less agree. I think it's a very musical album, but it's missing something sometimes. I don't know why sometimes I'm in the mood for it and sometimes not. I know that if I'm listening to a Rush mix, I'll quite often skip the songs from this album. But there are times when I just want to play and enjoy the whole album. Which of course reminds me of the ol' vinyl LP days (corresponding to my youth), when listening to an album was an event (often involving mood lighting, a bean bag chair, and stimulants of various types) and not just something to do while doing something else, which it often is now.

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I think I am in the majority have little to NO opinion on S&A.

 

After Vapor Trails and then Feedback, I had no interest in S&A. I felt Rush was reaching to still be making new music.

I honestly never gave S&A a chance until maybe 2010. Actually never owned the record until 2010.

VT and Feedback turned me off on new music from Rush this century, so S&A was just sort of there. I would rather hear songs I love, then go through any new music which pales in comparison to the 70's and 80's....I have probably heard more songs from S&A live in person then I ever have listened to on record.

It does nothing for me. Don't HATE it, just don't care to hear it.

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For a long time I would skip Larger Bowl and Bravest Face. Nowadays I skip Faithless and Bravest Face. I like Good News first but its not as strong as some of the other cuts, but its not bad.

 

That being said this is a top 10 album for me, easily my favorite of the post tragedy era.

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I like S&A too. But I always have a feeling "What if..." when I listen to it. It has potential but the end result is not that great.

 

Working them Angels and Armor & Sword are pretty good.

 

But there are too few good melodies and too few "nyances" in S&A. A lot of oppressive, disturbing "hard songs"... like Spindrift... don't like it.

 

But what difference it was when Rush introduced strings/synths back in CA. That large Rush sound, that huge "sound wall", emotion and melodies in songs like The Garden and The Wreckers, etc. Huge difference. HUGE.

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I like old cars, the kinds with cassette players, and if they're really fancy they've got a CD player in the trunk. Recently got a new "driver" with a 6-CD changer in the trunk, an well cared for old Taurus SHO. Funny thing is that in choosing what 6 CDs to put in there, VT and S&A made the list, to my surprise. Surprising because despite a love for Terry Brown-era Rush I don't consider myself a Rush fanboy; like how I love classic Star Trek but would feel totally out of place at a convention. So, after choosing ESL as a sort of greatest hits album (when I had an Alfa 164 with a 12 disc player in the trunk -- very fancy for a mid-90s car -- ATWAS was also included) I figured I was done with Rush until going through my hundreds of CDs and realizing that I wanted VT and S&A in there more than anything else that I might have figured I'd choose well before them. I realized for the first time that I really like those albums because they have REALLY good music. Not great songs the way PeW and MP has great songs, but really great music and performances. I had always thought I liked VT and S&A because I HAD to like SOMETHING Rush did after 1984, and they seemed like the least disappointing compared to the early stuff. Now I realize that I just really like those albums, regardless of what I think of Rush's past music. This was a bit of a revelation really, and a really welcome one. I love that I now think that if Rush had never made an album before VT, they'd still be one of my very favorite bands.

 

It also helps that I made LP-length versions for the old cars without CD players, just radio/cassette; I think those really made me appreciate those albums. No fatigue. I've posted a version of this list before, but for what it's worth, I have tapes of each of these song lists (2 LPs and an EP), and there's nothing quite like driving along in a old car with The Main Monkey Business blasting out of the speakers.The boys are in top form on these.

 

Vapor Trails LP:

I. One Little Victory, Ceiling Unlimited, Ghost Rider, Secret Touch

II. Vapor Trail, Earthshine, Freeze, Out of the Cradle

 

Peaceable Kingdom EP:

I. Peaceable Kingdom, The Stars Look Down, That's How It Is

II. Sweet Miracle, Nocturne, Good News First

 

Snakes and Arrows LP:

I. Far Cry, Armor and Sword, The Main Monkey Business, Spindrift

II. Workin' Them Angels, A Larger Bowl, Hope, Faithless, Malignant Narcissism, We Hold On

 

Great stuff. LP length I don't get VT or S&A fatigue. Learned to appreciate the songs, and the nuances within them, much more.

Edited by Rutlefan
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Great post, Rutlefan! I have much of S &A and VT on my I-shuffle. As you note, many of the songs are strong, and that really shows when they are removed from the context of their respective albums. The fatigue factor is gone.
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