Apollo Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 This can't even be a question. When one looks at the increased use of synthesizers and shorter songs (nothing over 9 minutes), one can only conclude that Permanent Waves belongs in the '80s. A pesky little thing called the date on the album also confirms Permanent Waves as a member of the '80s. Naysayers may claim that PW was actually composed and recorded in "the 70s." These well meaning but intellectually inferior folk fail to realize the great power of Rush to foresee the future and to compose an album that belonged in the '80s while the date at the time of composition was the '70s. To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer. This line will go over good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer. This line will go over good. No doubt! :eyeroll: I don't have the wherewithal to argue every possible reason why it might be one or the other. But to my mind- it was written and recorded in the seventies. It was informed, let's say, by prog and new wave- both products of the seventies. No matter that it was released on the very first day of 1980. It is purely a product of the seventies. The more pertinent question, I think, is why does it even matter whether it is considered a seventies or an eighties album? It's bloody fantastic music! Why does anything else matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 29, 2015 Author Share Posted January 29, 2015 It doesn't matter. The thread was started to occupy antsy Rush fans who were awaiting news of a tour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 It matters because 70s Rush is better than 80s Rush . . . . can't catch me!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) It matters because 70s Rush is better than 80s Rush . . . . can't catch me!!But everyone knows the eighties didn't being until 1982, so Permanent Waves is safe. ;) Edited January 30, 2015 by Lorraine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
len(songs) Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 First heard it Christmas 1979 so it's 70's for me.Interesting... 7 days before it was released? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Timeline: - the Tour of the Hemispheres ended June 4, 1979 (Pink Pop festival)- the band took six weeks off (did they consult their crystal balls to see into the future to find out what the musical trends would be? I don't think so.)- August 1979: wrote and rehearsed at Lakewoods Farm (for only a few days, apparently - really goes to show ya...)- recorded demos at Sound Kitchen studios in Toronto- 1979 warm up tour started in August: set list included Spirit and Freewill- late September/early October? - recording at Le Studio, and mixing at Trident studios in London - again, this all happened relatively quickly. They were at the peak of their powers. They were "in the moment" - a late 70s moment. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddy's Soul Patch Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This can't even be a question. When one looks at the increased use of synthesizers and shorter songs (nothing over 9 minutes), one can only conclude that Permanent Waves belongs in the '80s. A pesky little thing called the date on the album also confirms Permanent Waves as a member of the '80s. Naysayers may claim that PW was actually composed and recorded in "the 70s." These well meaning but intellectually inferior folk fail to realize the great power of Rush to foresee the future and to compose an album that belonged in the '80s while the date at the time of composition was the '70s. To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer. There are a few issues here. First, PeW hardly featured more synth than Hemispheres. In addition, Natural Science is over 9 minutes and much closer to the style of Hemispheres than either MP or Signals. As far as the date goes, Rush could have waited until last week to release the album, it doesn't change the fact that the sounds were made in the 70s 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ged Lent's sis Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 This can't even be a question. When one looks at the increased use of synthesizers and shorter songs (nothing over 9 minutes), one can only conclude that Permanent Waves belongs in the '80s. A pesky little thing called the date on the album also confirms Permanent Waves as a member of the '80s. Naysayers may claim that PW was actually composed and recorded in "the 70s." These well meaning but intellectually inferior folk fail to realize the great power of Rush to foresee the future and to compose an album that belonged in the '80s while the date at the time of composition was the '70s. To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer. There are a few issues here. First, PeW hardly featured more synth than Hemispheres. In addition, Natural Science is over 9 minutes and much closer to the style of Hemispheres than either MP or Signals. As far as the date goes, Rush could have waited until last week to release the album, it doesn't change the fact that the sounds were made in the 70s Though my humble noggin isn't the most equipped for the task, I'm going to try to dumb it down for the others of you not privy to the generative power that flows from the River of Intellectual Superiority (with a mouth in Boise, no less!). You see, while it may be true what Geddy's Soul Patch says — that Natural Science does, in fact, clock in over the nine minute mark — it cannot be an oversight on Apollo's part because that would just make him sound cerebrally deficient, which cannot be the case. I mean, he implied quite the opposite! :codger: Confounded, in all likelihood due to my own shortcomings in the reasoning department, I did a little research and to my astonishment found the following video which would seem to indicate that the band's powers of prediction extend beyond what our resident genius was willing to admit — most likely because our psyches couldn't handle it. As is evidenced by the eight-and-a-half minute length of the song on the Snakes and Arrows tour, clearly the band felt that the music from Permanent Waves belongs firmly in the twenty-first century.http://youtu.be/X_EmqJoFIOU 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) As an aside, it seems people approach the argument from two different directions (apart from pointlessly arguing about dates; anyone can see when the album was released, you don't need a thread to figure that out). One is whether PeW belongs with '70s Rush or '80s Rush; or, whether PeW belongs to '70s music in general or '80s music in general. I've been arguing from the latter approach. If I approached it as the former ('70s rush or '80s Rush), I'd still say it is a '70s album (2 of the 6 songs -- or nearly half the album's running time -- are so prog-ish my hipster friends would flee the room in terror if I played them), but at least I better understand the '80s argument. Still don't understand the "use of synths" argument. Synths were a very prog instrument in the '70s, and of course in '80s pop; depends how they're used. Entre Nous and Jacob's Ladder use synth. I wouldn't call either one of those an '80s pop song. Edited January 30, 2015 by Rutlefan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) To each his or her own, it seems. (And by the way- it always is, has been, and will be). True, Natural Science is only about an eight and a half minute song- with nearly a full minute of ocean sounds tacked on to the end of it, making it a bit longer. Maybe they should have given a composition credit to whatever body of water it was (Music by Lee, Lifeson, and Narragansett Bay, Lyrics by Peart...or something like that). Edited January 30, 2015 by Blue J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Natural Science is only about an eight and a half minute song- with nearly a full minute of ocean sounds tacked on to the end of it,.... Er.............that's not an ocean. If I remember correctly, they went out in a canoe on a little lake near either LeStudio or the house they were renting nearby to get those sounds with the oar. I could be wrong :o of course, but I thought that it what I read in my Rush book. Or someplace else. I've become as nitpicky as everyone else finally. :lol: Now, back to the nitpickiest subject of them all..... Edited January 30, 2015 by Lorraine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Natural Science is only about an eight and a half minute song- with nearly a full minute of ocean sounds tacked on to the end of it,.... Er.............that's not an ocean. If I remember correctly, they went out in a canoe on a little lake near either LeStudio or the house they were renting nearby to get those sounds with the oar. I could be wrong :o of course, but I thought that it what I read in my Rush book. Or someplace else. I've become as nitpicky as everyone else finally. :lol: Now, back to the nitpickiest subject of them all..... It's a metaphorical ocean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toymaker Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Natural Science is only about an eight and a half minute song- with nearly a full minute of ocean sounds tacked on to the end of it,.... Er.............that's not an ocean. If I remember correctly, they went out in a canoe on a little lake near either LeStudio or the house they were renting nearby to get those sounds with the oar. I could be wrong :o of course, but I thought that it what I read in my Rush book. Or someplace else. I've become as nitpicky as everyone else finally. :lol: Now, back to the nitpickiest subject of them all..... It's a metaphorical ocean. Probably meant to suggest ocean, what with the "tidal" pools and all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 To get the tide pool sound, Neil and Alex “splashed oars in the lake with shivering hands,” Neil says in the Permanent waves tourbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue J Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I was talking about the crashing waves sounds during the last fifty seconds or so of the song. It sounds like more than a tide pool to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas7 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yes Len(songs) the DJ had a pre release version as radio stations do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Another aside. I can see how those who discovered their "classic" material by exploring the back catalog might think that PeW and MP belong more to what followed than what went before. Looking back it makes some sense to draw a line between Hemi and PeW. But if you were like me and grew up listening to Rush in the '70s, and would run out and buy each of the older albums as they were released (I entered the Rush orbit with ATWAS), PeW certainly sounded like an evolution at the time, but it still sounded like the band I had been following all along. Same with MP, whereas Signals sounded like a New Thing. Signals definitely signaled a new direction (clever huh), wheres PeW and MP felt like they capped a creative arc that started with 2112. At least that's how it seemed at the time, and so still does, though at least I can understand the other side of it. Is this important? No, but is any of this? I just like talking about PeW. It's like reminiscing about an old friend. D*mn that album has aged well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorraine Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Yes, it has aged well, and that's the mark of a true classic album. In fact, if Rush released it today, it wouldn't even sound dated. At least, I don't think it would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 ^ I completely agree, it's really true. Can't say that about many albums for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rutlefan Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Natural Science is only about an eight and a half minute song- with nearly a full minute of ocean sounds tacked on to the end of it,.... Er.............that's not an ocean. If I remember correctly, they went out in a canoe on a little lake near either LeStudio or the house they were renting nearby to get those sounds with the oar. I could be wrong :o of course, but I thought that it what I read in my Rush book. Or someplace else. I've become as nitpicky as everyone else finally. :lol: Now, back to the nitpickiest subject of them all..... It's a metaphorical ocean. And those are the best oceans of all! Metaphorical oceans are all vastness and mystery without the biting, stinging, or stickiness. :) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRogers Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Yeah I discovered Rush with Permanent Waves then quickly Moving Pictures comes along. I only went backwards to the band's material after wearing out Moving Pictures while enjoying Signals the new album. For me Old Rush is Hemispheres on back...the 70's stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 This can't even be a question. When one looks at the increased use of synthesizers and shorter songs (nothing over 9 minutes), one can only conclude that Permanent Waves belongs in the '80s. A pesky little thing called the date on the album also confirms Permanent Waves as a member of the '80s. Naysayers may claim that PW was actually composed and recorded in "the 70s." These well meaning but intellectually inferior folk fail to realize the great power of Rush to foresee the future and to compose an album that belonged in the '80s while the date at the time of composition was the '70s. To argue this reveals a profound lack of sophistication on the part of the arguer.Synths played like can be a 70s thing, ELP, yes, and others used those sounds in the 70s, and far earlier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lerxt1990 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 PeW I think of as a 70s album, and even in a way MP. One thing is clear, if you were around back then, is that Rush were a giant. Big. Look at the discography and what came out between 1977 and 1980 - 4 year span of utter brilliance. IMO PeW and MP were Rush's greatest albums, and two fo the greatest rock albums of all time. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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