The Ashes Thread

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM)

Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...

 

 

Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.

 

Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.

 

England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.

 

England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.

 

England are not crap.

 

 

 

[Roddy]

Think this is my first post in here...thought there was nothing but shitty North American sports going on in here, til I saw 'the Ashes Thread' on top!

I'm absolutely over the moon that we got the coveted urn back (the only thing bad about Perth was that it made Boxing Day in my home town a dead rubber!). I predicted 4-0 Australia before the series, and that prediction's looking good at this point. But don't be deluded, England are coming, finally. After what seemed like an eternity of (yes) crapness, I can see our incredible run of dominance finally coming to an end soon (it can't last for ever), and the Poms becoming number 1. They showed what a good side they have last year, and although they held the Ashes for the shortest period in history, they have youth on their side (especially compared to us, with barely a player under 30).

Anyway, that's my 0.02c for what it's worth. For now, GO AUSSIE!!!!!!!

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were).

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM)

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:31 PM)

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...   Harmison has been in the top 3.   India was a draw.   Pakistan beat us in that series yes, both India and Pakistan are notoriously difficult places to play.   You conveniently leave out the fact we beat Pakistan at home in a test series this summer. I was there at Old trafford on day one. We slaughtered them.   England is ranked number 2 in the world. So your theory of some kind of malaise in English test cricket holds no water, they have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years.   Yes England suck big time at one day cricket but we're not talking about that.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:47 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:31 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...   Harmison has been in the top 3.   India was a draw.   Pakistan beat us in that series yes, both India and Pakistan are notoriously difficult places to play.   You conveniently leave out the fact we beat Pakistan at home in a test series this summer. I was there at Old trafford on day one. We slaughtered them.   England is ranked number 2 in the world. So your theory of some kind of malaise in English test cricket holds no water, they have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years.   Yes England suck big time at one day cricket but we're not talking about that. Then what happened against Australia (again) and why did it take over 20 years to get the ashes back for a brief 15 month spell? One ashes series win in two decades is not the form of a top team mate is it?   Can you say that England weren't outplayed in all three tests? If you can then why didn't they win one of them at least?

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:57 PM)

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:47 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:31 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...   Harmison has been in the top 3.   India was a draw.   Pakistan beat us in that series yes, both India and Pakistan are notoriously difficult places to play.   You conveniently leave out the fact we beat Pakistan at home in a test series this summer. I was there at Old trafford on day one. We slaughtered them.   England is ranked number 2 in the world. So your theory of some kind of malaise in English test cricket holds no water, they have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years.   Yes England suck big time at one day cricket but we're not talking about that. Then what happened against Australia (again) and why did it take over 20 years to get the ashes back for a brief 15 month spell? One ashes series win in two decades is not the form of a top team mate is it?   Can you say that England weren't outplayed in all three tests? If you can then why didn't they win one of them at least?   I never said we weren't outplayed, I said they have no more ability than our players (Warne excluded). As I said previously Austraia were definately more up for it this time around. They were out to avenge their defeat no doubt. England were never going to win this series but there is still 2 more tests to play.   I'm not talking about the past 2 decades. England have been crap since the late 80's and most of the 90's but my point is "matey" we have improved tremendously in the last 6 years you can't deny that fact. WE ARE RANKED NUMBER 2 IN THE WORLD! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?   You are saying that England are still the useless team they were 10 years ago but that's obviously not true, due to our ranking and ashes win of last year.   When Warne, McGrath and others have retired in the next couple of years, England will have a much better chance. Warne is the best spin bowler ever period.

[treeduck]

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:57 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:47 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:31 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...   Harmison has been in the top 3.   India was a draw.   Pakistan beat us in that series yes, both India and Pakistan are notoriously difficult places to play.   You conveniently leave out the fact we beat Pakistan at home in a test series this summer. I was there at Old trafford on day one. We slaughtered them.   England is ranked number 2 in the world. So your theory of some kind of malaise in English test cricket holds no water, they have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years.   Yes England suck big time at one day cricket but we're not talking about that. Then what happened against Australia (again) and why did it take over 20 years to get the ashes back for a brief 15 month spell? One ashes series win in two decades is not the form of a top team mate is it?   Can you say that England weren't outplayed in all three tests? If you can then why didn't they win one of them at least?   I never said we weren't outplayed, I said they have no more ability than our players (Warne excluded). As I said previously Austraia were definately more up for it this time around. They were out to avenge their defeat no doubt. England were never going to win this series but there is still 2 more tests to play.   I'm not talking about the past 2 decades. England have been crap since the late 80's and most of the 90's but my point is "matey" we have improved tremendously in the last 6 years you can't deny that fact. WE ARE RANKED NUMBER 2 IN THE WORLD! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?   You are saying that England are still the useless team they were 10 years ago but that's obviously not true, due to our ranking and ashes win of last year.   When Warne, McGrath and others have retired in the next couple of years, England will have a much better chance. Warne is the best spin bowler ever period. This takes me back to my original point, you mention Warne and Mcgrath and that we'd have a better chance when they're gone but answer me this, if he had two guys as good as those guys i mean measure for measure, would the likes of Harmison not be be reduced to bit part supporting roles? That's what England needs the ability and the confidence that comes with the consistent ability to bowl sides out. This would stop most of those batting collapses...   Harmison is not as good as these guys that I mentioned Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath not is he as good as Willis or Botham, he's about on the same level as Graham Dilley that's average at world level...   Unless you think he's really as good as those players?

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 09:20 PM)

QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 04:09 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:57 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:47 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:31 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 03:08 PM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 19 2006, 07:37 PM) QUOTE (Huck @ Dec 19 2006, 08:32 AM) QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 18 2006, 08:47 PM) Apart from a few spasms here and there, like the ashes series over here, England have been crap for ages. They seem to have this "we're doomed" mentality that induces those embarrasing collapses we see so often. The main problem with England though is they need some genuine good and consistent bowlers, I mean truly world class front line guys, not guys who are good for one game in 6. Until they get at least two guys like this they're always gonna be shaky at best...     Hmm I beg to differ on that. It may seem like England has been crap for ages but this is the typical attitude of people over here who don't know anything about cricket..."oh England are crap"etc etc.   Prior to their ashes win England had been improving over a period of time, especially in the last 3 or 4 years and had won test series after test series playing superb cricket and have actually been ranked number 2 in the world at test cricket for sometime now.   England definately peaked during their ashes win of 1 and a half years ago but have gone slightly down hill since then. The injuries to Simon Jones (who bowled superbly in the ashes) and Captain Vaughan have had something to do with this.   England have 2 bowlers in the top 10 world rankings......the same as Australia. I don't believe there is that much difference in talent between the 2 sides but this time Australia were definately more hungry and more focused than England and deserved to win each of the 3 tests so far. Harmison has not bowled well, Flintoff has only just come back from a lenghty injury and Panesar should have played in the first 2 tests.   England are not crap. How do you explain those oh so familiar collapses? It's a disease mate and I think it comes from the county cricket pie throwing attitude.   Name the England bowlers of the last few years that you think measure up to these world class bowlers:   Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath to name just a few...   When was the last time we had a truly world class bowler, woh was the accepted best in the world or even top 5?   It's all very well beating Sri Lanka and New Zealand but when England meet the big boys they come up short more often than not...   It's only since the west Indies went into decline that we've been able to match them, the 1984 series crushing is still fresh in my mind and in those days we still had Willis and Botham (past their best as they probably were). Batting collapses happen mate to every team, even Australia.   As for having no world class bowlers you are wrong, in the Test world rankings Hoggard is ranked 6th and Flintoff 8th. Harmison has been in the top 3 FACT. Please use facts and stats to back up your argument. If jones hadn't been injured for over a year he'd be in the top 5.   You're asking for me to name England bowlers who match up with your list....the majority of who finished playing test cricket in the early 90's after long and industrious careers, as our Australian friend rightly stated the England team are still young men. Flintoff is an all rounder and when his carrer has finished will undoubtly be up there with the worlds best ever (of recent years).   Please name these big boys of crickt that we fail against? I seem to rememberus beating the aussies last time. I say again we are ranked 2nd in the world in test cricket...by a long way. Number 6 and 8, I said number 1 or top 5 matey...   Well England have just been crushed by Australia for starters...in march i think it was england won a test match against India in Mumbai their first win there for 21 years to tie the series that's not great form over two decades is it? Then they lost the one day series 5-1.   This time last year England lost the series 2-0 to Pakistan the other match they held on for a draw or it would have been 3-0...   So the big boys they've lost to are Australia and Pakistan and India they drew with but slaughtered in the one dayers...   Harmison has been in the top 3.   India was a draw.   Pakistan beat us in that series yes, both India and Pakistan are notoriously difficult places to play.   You conveniently leave out the fact we beat Pakistan at home in a test series this summer. I was there at Old trafford on day one. We slaughtered them.   England is ranked number 2 in the world. So your theory of some kind of malaise in English test cricket holds no water, they have come on leaps and bounds in the last few years.   Yes England suck big time at one day cricket but we're not talking about that. Then what happened against Australia (again) and why did it take over 20 years to get the ashes back for a brief 15 month spell? One ashes series win in two decades is not the form of a top team mate is it?   Can you say that England weren't outplayed in all three tests? If you can then why didn't they win one of them at least?   I never said we weren't outplayed, I said they have no more ability than our players (Warne excluded). As I said previously Austraia were definately more up for it this time around. They were out to avenge their defeat no doubt. England were never going to win this series but there is still 2 more tests to play.   I'm not talking about the past 2 decades. England have been crap since the late 80's and most of the 90's but my point is "matey" we have improved tremendously in the last 6 years you can't deny that fact. WE ARE RANKED NUMBER 2 IN THE WORLD! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?   You are saying that England are still the useless team they were 10 years ago but that's obviously not true, due to our ranking and ashes win of last year.   When Warne, McGrath and others have retired in the next couple of years, England will have a much better chance. Warne is the best spin bowler ever period. This takes me back to my original point, you mention Warne and Mcgrath and that we'd have a better chance when they're gone but answer me this, if he had two guys as good as those guys i mean measure for measure, would the likes of Harmison not be be reduced to bit part supporting roles? That's what England needs the ability and the confidence that comes with the consistent ability to bowl sides out. This would stop most of those batting collapses...   Harmison is not as good as these guys that I mentioned Shane Warne, Malcolm Marshall, Courtney Walsh, Curtis Ambrose, Imran Khan, Anil Kumble, Saqlain Mushtaq, Allan Donald, Glenn Mcgrath not is he as good as Willis or Botham, he's about on the same level as Graham Dilley that's average at world level...   Unless you think he's really as good as those players?   How soon you forget how good Harmison was a couple of years ago, he's definately in a slump right now and I believe shouldn't have been playing.   Hoggard is a world class bowler so is Flintoff they are ranked 6 and 8 in the world. With Jones fit and Harmison on form those bowlers are the best strike force in the world as the Aussies found out last year. As I stated previosly Flintoff is coming back from injury and has hardly played any cricket at all in the last six months. You can't expect a bowler to perform at his best under those circumstances. You can't expect to beat Australia with only one in form fully fit bowler. Flintoff is not fit Harmison is short of confidence but could still be a modern great only time will tell.   I agree with you totally that if the England bowling attack was capable of bowling sides out then that would give the batsmen something to aim at. Our batting strength is agression, we fail when we are trying to defend against a big total.   You can't expect Hoggard to do it all on his own and Flintoff is short of games. Panesar should have played in the first two matches and Harmison shouldn't have played at all. Who's to blame? Not the players but the selectors. England are not crap.

[treeduck]

So Warne has retired from Test match cricket... Good!! The Aussies are gonna miss the fat bastard I can tell you. But...if he carries on playing 1st class cricket and his form is still good, by the time the next Ashes series rolls around I can see the Australian cricket gurus begging him to come back again for one last roll of the dice and to ruin england's plans all over again, 37 is young for a slow bowler...

[Huck]

QUOTE (treeduck @ Dec 21 2006, 05:27 AM)

So Warne has retired from Test match cricket... Good!! The Aussies are gonna miss the fat bastard I can tell you.

 

[Roddy]

The BD test starts tomorrow!! Like I said, too bad it's a dead rubber. Gunna watch every ball anyway, unless it's rained out, has been the coldest Christmas Day on record here, and rained off and on all day.

 

Still, with our Dam capacity at about 39%, the rain's more important than a cricket match!

[Mandalorian Hunter]

Oh Dear

[Dread Pirate Robert]

QUOTE (Milton Bridge @ Jul 22 2005, 03:55 PM)

I can't believe its taken a Scotsman to start a thread on The Ashes. ( For our US cousins - The greatest cricket series in the world - England versus Australia) I have been looking forward this all summer and boy it hasn't dissapointed so far. England in command early on the first day, the Aussies coming back blasting Engalnd out. 17 wickets on the first day. Then today the Aussies cruising then a slump just before the close of play. I think it may be all over by tomorrow, certainly by Sunday lunchtime. My prediction Aussies to go 1-0 up.

When I first saw this thread title I figured that it was a thread for fans of teams whose seasons have gone up in smoke, a place to bitch and wail and cry and generally commiserate with each other about how the dreams for the season have turned into ashes.

[Huck]

QUOTE (Drunk Pirate Robert @ Dec 27 2006, 01:20 PM)

QUOTE (Milton Bridge @ Jul 22 2005, 03:55 PM) I can't believe its taken a Scotsman to start a thread on The Ashes. ( For our US cousins - The greatest cricket series in the world - England versus Australia) I have been looking forward this all summer and boy it hasn't dissapointed so far. England in command early on the first day, the Aussies coming back blasting Engalnd out. 17 wickets on the first day. Then today the Aussies cruising then a slump just before the close of play. I think it may be all over by tomorrow, certainly by Sunday lunchtime. My prediction Aussies to go 1-0 up. When I first saw this thread title I figured that it was a thread for fans of teams whose seasons have gone up in smoke, a place to bitch and wail and cry and generally commiserate with each other about how the dreams for the season have turned into ashes.   If you're an England cricket fan you're bang on there DPR, that's what exactly this thread is

[Roddy]

Still the undisputed Kings!!!!

[different strings]

QUOTE (different strings @ Dec 7 2006, 09:03 PM)

QUOTE (slambozzio @ Dec 7 2006, 06:45 AM) just thought i'd kickstart this thread again  2 - 0 to the Aussies so far this series .... looks like The Ashes are coming home where they belong  Looks like a whitewash to me I't looking that way DS just became 4 - 0 in 3 days in the Melb Test Bring it on here in Sydney for WARNE'S LAST TEST.

[treeduck]

Although Flintoff said they're trying their best I think they gave up in that match...

[rickyrob]

[Melll]

I think I'm praying for a 5-0 now, just so they can get shook up and the coach gets his ass kicked.

 

Shambolic performance, all the way through.

[different strings]

Well I just wanted to report it was indeed 5-0 and what a fitting finish for Warne, Langer and Mcgrath - an ashes whitewash.

[Roddy]

Question for cricket lovers....is Australia's seemingly never ending dominance of world cricket actually bad for game worldwide????