Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsYh.jpg Everything you need to know. ;) The Fool definitely seems to be involved somehow, but . . . . I watched this episode again last night, paying close attention to where Joffrey's cup was. After the Cake comes out, Joffrey hands his cup to Margery, who then walks over and places it down directly in front of her mother, where it sits till Tyrion later picks it up. So, I think the Tyrells did it! Lady Olenna is Margery's grandmother, and mother to Mace Tyrell lord of Highgarden... anyhoo this imgur album is pretty good at detailing how it could have happened. http://imgur.com/a/2DtPH I will also note that the sequence of events is also very similar in "A Storm of Swords", Sansa is wearing a hairnet with small little black crystals instead of a necklace, but that doesnt matter that much... but in the books the Queen of Thorns comes over to Sansa and has a similar conversation... during which she adjusts the hairnet for her. Ack, that link needs a serious Spoiler alert. wow I didn't catch any of that. It was even harder to figure out what was going on in the book. You knew Joffrey died, of course, but all of the details didn't come out until later. I think the only reason people were so on top of what happened in the show is because they had read the book, else they'd have missed it. I've never read anything from the books, but I happened to see the old woman palm the gem on the necklace, then saw it missing from the strand in the next shot. Seriously? It never registered with me at all how many gems that necklace had on it, either before or after one was taken. You normally pay that much attention to jewelry? And I still can't see Olenna palm it. Sure, she is reaching at the necklace, pulling at it as if to admire it/rearrange it, whatever, but I don't see a gem come off the necklace and going into her hand. For those of you who don't know, you can watch the episode anytime on the internet at HBO GO -- with the benefit of being able to pause it, rewind, etc. You pulling our legs here, Ken? Edited April 15, 2014 by Dread Pirate Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Okay, I see it now, with the benefit of pause feature. I can see her take the small gem. Olenna did a very skillful job of hiding what she was doing from everybody there (and most of us here in the TV audience) I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenJennings Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsYh.jpg Everything you need to know. ;) The Fool definitely seems to be involved somehow, but . . . . I watched this episode again last night, paying close attention to where Joffrey's cup was. After the Cake comes out, Joffrey hands his cup to Margery, who then walks over and places it down directly in front of her mother, where it sits till Tyrion later picks it up. So, I think the Tyrells did it! Lady Olenna is Margery's grandmother, and mother to Mace Tyrell lord of Highgarden... anyhoo this imgur album is pretty good at detailing how it could have happened. http://imgur.com/a/2DtPH I will also note that the sequence of events is also very similar in "A Storm of Swords", Sansa is wearing a hairnet with small little black crystals instead of a necklace, but that doesnt matter that much... but in the books the Queen of Thorns comes over to Sansa and has a similar conversation... during which she adjusts the hairnet for her. Ack, that link needs a serious Spoiler alert. wow I didn't catch any of that. It was even harder to figure out what was going on in the book. You knew Joffrey died, of course, but all of the details didn't come out until later. I think the only reason people were so on top of what happened in the show is because they had read the book, else they'd have missed it. I've never read anything from the books, but I happened to see the old woman palm the gem on the necklace, then saw it missing from the strand in the next shot. Seriously? It never registered with me at all how many gems that necklace had on it, either before or after one was taken. You normally pay that much attention to jewelry? And I still can't see Olenna palm it. Sure, she is reaching at the necklace, pulling at it as if to admire it/rearrange it, whatever, but I don't see a gem come off the necklace and going into her hand. For those of you who don't know, you can watch the episode anytime on the internet at HBO GO -- with the benefit of being able to pause it, rewind, etc. You pulling our legs here, Ken? Not at all. The necklace was a clear Chekhov's gun in some way, then when Olenna came up to Sansa and took a good hard look at necklace, I watched her reaction to it very carefully. She pulled the rightmost gem into her hand with her thumb and palmed it away. I wasn't certain that was the move, but it piqued my interest enough to make me lean in and examine the necklace on the next shot. Sure enough it was gone. Edited April 16, 2014 by KenJennings 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsYh.jpg Everything you need to know. ;) The Fool definitely seems to be involved somehow, but . . . . I watched this episode again last night, paying close attention to where Joffrey's cup was. After the Cake comes out, Joffrey hands his cup to Margery, who then walks over and places it down directly in front of her mother, where it sits till Tyrion later picks it up. So, I think the Tyrells did it! Lady Olenna is Margery's grandmother, and mother to Mace Tyrell lord of Highgarden... anyhoo this imgur album is pretty good at detailing how it could have happened. http://imgur.com/a/2DtPH I will also note that the sequence of events is also very similar in "A Storm of Swords", Sansa is wearing a hairnet with small little black crystals instead of a necklace, but that doesnt matter that much... but in the books the Queen of Thorns comes over to Sansa and has a similar conversation... during which she adjusts the hairnet for her. Ack, that link needs a serious Spoiler alert. wow I didn't catch any of that. It was even harder to figure out what was going on in the book. You knew Joffrey died, of course, but all of the details didn't come out until later. I think the only reason people were so on top of what happened in the show is because they had read the book, else they'd have missed it. I've never read anything from the books, but I happened to see the old woman palm the gem on the necklace, then saw it missing from the strand in the next shot. Seriously? It never registered with me at all how many gems that necklace had on it, either before or after one was taken. You normally pay that much attention to jewelry? And I still can't see Olenna palm it. Sure, she is reaching at the necklace, pulling at it as if to admire it/rearrange it, whatever, but I don't see a gem come off the necklace and going into her hand. For those of you who don't know, you can watch the episode anytime on the internet at HBO GO -- with the benefit of being able to pause it, rewind, etc. You pulling our legs here, Ken? Not at all. The necklace was a clear Chekhov's gun in some way, then when Olenna came up to Sansa and took a good hard look at necklace, I watched her reaction to it very carefully. She pulled the rightmost gem into her hand with her thumb and palmed it away. I wasn't certain that was the move, but it piqued my interest enough to make me lean in and examine the necklace on the next shot. Sure enough it was gone. Well, I overlooked the necklace entirely. I just took it at face value as to what the Fool said it was - a present out of gratitude for having his life spared. Should have known better than to make that assumption, in that world of constant intrigue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Btw, awesome of Joffrey to take another swig of the poisoned wine after he started rasping from it already. Yeah, drink more of it, Joffrey! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Owl Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsYh.jpg Everything you need to know. ;) The Fool definitely seems to be involved somehow, but . . . . I watched this episode again last night, paying close attention to where Joffrey's cup was. After the Cake comes out, Joffrey hands his cup to Margery, who then walks over and places it down directly in front of her mother, where it sits till Tyrion later picks it up. So, I think the Tyrells did it! Lady Olenna is Margery's grandmother, and mother to Mace Tyrell lord of Highgarden... anyhoo this imgur album is pretty good at detailing how it could have happened. http://imgur.com/a/2DtPH I will also note that the sequence of events is also very similar in "A Storm of Swords", Sansa is wearing a hairnet with small little black crystals instead of a necklace, but that doesnt matter that much... but in the books the Queen of Thorns comes over to Sansa and has a similar conversation... during which she adjusts the hairnet for her. Ack, that link needs a serious Spoiler alert. Shit, sorry if I spoiled anything... the point was that something very similar happens in the books, the same evidence book readers had... Lady Olenna took same of the very same movements in the episode that she did in the book.. To be fair, even to book readers it hasn't been confirmed that this is what happened to Joff... just heavily implied, by once again examining The Queen of Thorns actions during the wedding.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleMoon Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Oh please, it's not a spoiler if the book has been out for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 http://i.imgur.com/W0oQVsYh.jpg Everything you need to know. ;) The Fool definitely seems to be involved somehow, but . . . . I watched this episode again last night, paying close attention to where Joffrey's cup was. After the Cake comes out, Joffrey hands his cup to Margery, who then walks over and places it down directly in front of her mother, where it sits till Tyrion later picks it up. So, I think the Tyrells did it! Lady Olenna is Margery's grandmother, and mother to Mace Tyrell lord of Highgarden... anyhoo this imgur album is pretty good at detailing how it could have happened. http://imgur.com/a/2DtPH I will also note that the sequence of events is also very similar in "A Storm of Swords", Sansa is wearing a hairnet with small little black crystals instead of a necklace, but that doesnt matter that much... but in the books the Queen of Thorns comes over to Sansa and has a similar conversation... during which she adjusts the hairnet for her. Ack, that link needs a serious Spoiler alert. Shit, sorry if I spoiled anything... the point was that something very similar happens in the books, the same evidence book readers had... Lady Olenna took same of the very same movements in the episode that she did in the book.. To be fair, even to book readers it hasn't been confirmed that this is what happened to Joff... just heavily implied, by once again examining The Queen of Thorns actions during the wedding.. Being one who really doesn't mind spoilers and without having read any of the books other than the first (ponderously boring BTW), I love the show and can't wait to see what happens so I've read up on just about everything on Wiki type sites and knew how it went down in the books but just couldn't see it on the TV show. That link is a great help!!! Didn't even pick up on any of that. Thanks for posting...But I still think spoiler alerts are a good thing even if just being polite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Aubrey Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Ogr8's right. Please, folks, just remember: "when in doubt, use the spoiler feature". It's better to err on the side of caution than it is to spoil a show that not everyone may have seen. I don't care if the book has been out for a hundred years, just please be cool with spoilers, all right? Thanks everybody! Edited April 16, 2014 by Jack Aubrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J2112YYZ Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Ogr8's right. Please, folks, just remember: "when in doubt, use the spoiler feature". It's better to err on the side of caution than it is to spoil a show that not everyone may have seen. I don't care if the book has been out for a hundred years, just please be cool with spoilers, all right? Thanks everybody! Or you don't come into a thread about a show while the current season is going before you've seen the latest episodes. It works both ways. If you're talking about clicking on the link that was posted about how Joffrey was killed than that's on you. The poster clearly says before the link "this is pretty good a detailing how it could have happened". Does that not warn people that there's spoilers coming? I'm not trying to be rude but there are ways to avoid these things and clicking on links that talk about the show isn't one of them. Edited April 16, 2014 by J2112YYZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union 5-3992 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't understand how it's a spoiler if you can see it actually happen. All the evidence is there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman14 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ogr8's right. Please, folks, just remember: "when in doubt, use the spoiler feature". It's better to err on the side of caution than it is to spoil a show that not everyone may have seen. I don't care if the book has been out for a hundred years, just please be cool with spoilers, all right? Thanks everybody! Or you don't come into a thread about a show while the current season is going before you've seen the latest episodes. It works both ways. If you're talking about clicking on the link that was posted about how Joffrey was killed than that's on you. The poster clearly says before the link "this is pretty good a detailing how it could have happened". Does that not warn people that there's spoilers coming? I'm not trying to be rude but there are ways to avoid these things and clicking on links that talk about the show isn't one of them. if I haven't watched the most recent episode. I avoid the thread like a plague. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 WOOHOO! f**k YEAH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Enemy Without Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Except now I have to figure out who I'm going to hate next... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Except now I have to figure out who I'm going to hate next... hmmm . . . good question. For me, probably Cersei 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenJennings Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei for sure... and now Ramsey Snow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Who are your favorite characters? At this point, I guess my list includes Tyrion and Bron . . .maybe Arya as well. Margery is increasingly intriguing to me, though still not sure what to make of her. She may be as utterly ruthless at bottom as anybody on the show, carefully hidden under her charming/sweet/tenderness act. I like Jaime Lannister and the Hound much more now than as they were portrayed earlier in the series, and Daenarys less. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dread Pirate Robert Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei for sure... and now Ramsey Snow. What I wanted Joffrey's fate to be was for Ramsey to give him the "Reek Treatment". Oh well, the poisoning will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenJennings Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) I had an interesting discussion yesterday with a friend about Joffrey's death, and how (while I was very happy to see it finally happen) I felt like he got off kind of light. Sure, they portrayed a reasonably painful death, but still- he went from on top of the world to death in less than a minute. I was hoping to see Joffrey fall from grace and hit every branch along the way to the ground, constantly forced to look up and see what he lost being torn slowly from him... Meanwhile, Theon Greyjoy is meeting one of the most atrocious and horrific series of consequences that I've ever seen any character in any story ever endure; and while Theon certainly deserved to die (and probably painfully) for his antics in Winterfell, I can't help but feel he's more than paid his penance. There's no way that justice should let Joffrey get off lighter than Theon did. What I think could've made an interesting hypothetical situation, would've been to devise a scenario where Joffrey met the kind of fate that Theon has. Rather than the dumb, overly ambitious, clumsy Greyjoy meeting this awful end; let Joffrey meet those screws, let Joffrey suffer physically, psychologically, and torturously to an unending degree. Then the viewer would find themselves in an interesting social experiment: how long can you watch the heinous downfall of Joffrey before you begin to sympathize with him? How much can the viewer take before they re-humanize that asshole? It would be like the reverse of the "Breaking Bad experiment", where the viewer is initially led to sympathize with Walter White, and travels with him as he descends into real evil- seeing how long you can watch as a viewer before you turn against this man... Edited April 16, 2014 by KenJennings 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KenJennings Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 (edited) Who are your favorite characters? At this point, I guess my list includes Tyrion and Bron . . .maybe Arya as well. Agreed on all. Ayra and the Hound are a really likable duo at this point. And I've liked Tyrion all along. I also can't wait to see what Daenerys amounts to when she finally meets Westeros face to face. I like Jaime Lannister and the Hound much more now than as they were portrayed earlier in the series, and Daenarys less. I just can't forgive Jaime for what he did in the first episode of the series. I know a lot of people who are coming around on him, and I can certainly tell that he's grown as a character, but I can't forget that incestuous prick who treated everyone like shit and coldbloodedly shoved a little boy out of a tower. Edited April 16, 2014 by KenJennings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Who are your favorite characters? At this point, I guess my list includes Tyrion and Bron . . .maybe Arya as well. Margery is increasingly intriguing to me, though still not sure what to make of her. She may be as utterly ruthless at bottom as anybody on the show, carefully hidden under her charming/sweet/tenderness act. I like Jaime Lannister and the Hound much more now than as they were portrayed earlier in the series, and Daenarys less. I feel exactly the same way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
x1yyz Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Who are your favorite characters? At this point, I guess my list includes Tyrion and Bron . . .maybe Arya as well. Margery is increasingly intriguing to me, though still not sure what to make of her. She may be as utterly ruthless at bottom as anybody on the show, carefully hidden under her charming/sweet/tenderness act. I like Jaime Lannister and the Hound much more now than as they were portrayed earlier in the series, and Daenarys less. I feel exactly the same way!!! I've been a fan of the books for years, having read them all at least twice. (And not-so-patiently waiting for the next!) I think George RR Martin does a great job of manipulating your feelings towards characters, where first you hate them, then feel sorry for or end up liking them. Or vice-versa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rushman14 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Who are your favorite characters? At this point, I guess my list includes Tyrion and Bron . . .maybe Arya as well. Margery is increasingly intriguing to me, though still not sure what to make of her. She may be as utterly ruthless at bottom as anybody on the show, carefully hidden under her charming/sweet/tenderness act. I like Jaime Lannister and the Hound much more now than as they were portrayed earlier in the series, and Daenarys less. I feel exactly the same way!!! I've been a fan of the books for years, having read them all at least twice. (And not-so-patiently waiting for the next!) I think George RR Martin does a great job of manipulating your feelings towards characters, where first you hate them, then feel sorry for or end up liking them. Or vice-versa. yes I even feel bad for Theon now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Union 5-3992 Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 I had an interesting discussion yesterday with a friend about Joffrey's death, and how (while I was very happy to see it finally happen) I felt like he got off kind of light. Sure, they portrayed a reasonably painful death, but still- he went from on top of the world to death in less than a minute. I was hoping to see Joffrey fall from grace and hit every branch along the way to the ground, constantly forced to look up and see what he lost being torn slowly from him... Meanwhile, Theon Greyjoy is meeting one of the most atrocious and horrific series of consequences that I've ever seen any character in any story ever endure; and while Theon certainly deserved to die (and probably painfully) for his antics in Winterfell, I can't help but feel he's more than paid his penance. There's no way that justice should let Joffrey get off lighter than Theon did. What I think could've made an interesting hypothetical situation, would've been to devise a scenario where Joffrey met the kind of fate that Theon has. Rather than the dumb, overly ambitious, clumsy Greyjoy meeting this awful end; let Joffrey meet those screws, let Joffrey suffer physically, psychologically, and torturously to an unending degree. Then the viewer would find themselves in an interesting social experiment: how long can you watch the heinous downfall of Joffrey before you begin to sympathize with him? How much can the viewer take before they re-humanize that asshole? It would be like the reverse of the "Breaking Bad experiment", where the viewer is initially led to sympathize with Walter White, and travels with him as he descends into real evil- seeing how long you can watch as a viewer before you turn against this man... The whole point of the books are to show that real evil exists and can get away with it. And killing Joffrey relatively quickly is another example of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Aubrey Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Ogr8's right. Please, folks, just remember: "when in doubt, use the spoiler feature". It's better to err on the side of caution than it is to spoil a show that not everyone may have seen. I don't care if the book has been out for a hundred years, just please be cool with spoilers, all right? Thanks everybody! Or you don't come into a thread about a show while the current season is going before you've seen the latest episodes. It works both ways. If you're talking about clicking on the link that was posted about how Joffrey was killed than that's on you. The poster clearly says before the link "this is pretty good a detailing how it could have happened". Does that not warn people that there's spoilers coming? I'm not trying to be rude but there are ways to avoid these things and clicking on links that talk about the show isn't one of them.I completely understand your point. What I'm requesting of people is what I've found works best after 8 years of moderating this forum. So please, warn people if you're in doubt, just to be safe. I didn't mean to start a whole big thing here, just asking y'all to be cool. Thank you in advance, I appreciate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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