coventry Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (I've moved this from the "Virtuality" thread as it seems more appropriate as a separate thread. Please forgive any forum hubris or trespass for doing that). Truthfully, none of the tunes on T4E seem at all personal or intimate. Not that Neil's a Tom Waits or Suzanne Vega of intimate lyrics, but this album really resonates with cold, mechanical lyrics. Even the attempts at humor get lost in Neil's view-from-on-high mentality. From the detached aloofness of the title track and "Totem", to the can't-think-of-a-topic mentality of "Dog Years", "Half the World", and "Color of Right", to the attempt-to-capture-the-social-buzz of "Virtuality", the album just falls flat. Even something as seemingly initmate as "Resist" is built around an unoriginal thought (first penned by Oscar Wilde) and I really don't believe Neil has had any trouble resisting temptation to any great extent. Neil and Oscar Wilde are diametric opposites in personality, whimsy, and where they stick/stuck their cocks. Compared with the open-heart surgery emotion of VT and the powerful explorarion of gender identity of CP, T4E comes across as Neil clutching at lyrical straws and, ultimately, sinking. In fact, the only songs with even a shred of personal depth and "flesh and blood and fire" are "Time and Motion" and "Carve Away the Stone". They're the only ones that feel accessible to anyone but Neil - I mean, we can all relate to that feeling of filling our days like boxcars in a train, or waiting for someone else to move before we can get on with our own life. But other than that, what's left are pithy observations about a two-dimensional world. Which is a shame as Neil has seen more of the world firsthand and intimately than most of us have. Compare, for instance, "Scars" or "Ghost Rider" or "Chain Lightning" with any of the paper cut-out lyrics on T4E. Edit: The music, as has been pointed out a bunch of times, is interesting and well-constructed, especially on "Totem" and a few others. In fact, this album grooves way more than others! 2
Lerxster Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. If you don't dig the lyrics, no problem, but complaining they are not personal or intimate? They go there, but Rush is not known for their personal intimate lyrics. I don't get it.
rushgoober Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 We can pick apart the lyrics in a lot of songs on T4E, and rightly so, but the truth of the matter, and what's even more important, is that while T4E is a weak effort from Rush, compared to VT, it's a frickin masterpiece.
theanalogmiddleagedman Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions!
An Enemy Without Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 They are not personal or intimate to me because for the most part, I cannot connect with them.
coventry Posted July 23, 2013 Author Posted July 23, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. That's a cop-out observation, Lerxster. Anyone's lyrics are what they want them to be - that doesn't make them successful or resonant. I just don't get the feeling that Neil especially believes in the lyrics on T4E; that any of them really resonate with him. The "my" in "Driven" ("it's MY turn to drive", etc.) - is that really Neil speaking or is that Neil hiding behind a generic speaker? With 'Scars" and "Chain Lightning" and "Losing It" and "Sweet Miracle" I know that's Neil behind those emotions. For much of T4E, it's not Neil; rather, it's Neil being different characters or handing out judgments of society. They are not personal or intimate to me because for the most part, I cannot connect with them. Which is the major flaw in the album as a whole. With the exception of a few aforementioned tunes, how many of these songs have relatable lyrics?
presto123 Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Lyrics are one of the last things I judge a record on honestly. I'm not a big fan of the record sonically. This is the record that Neil switched from Ludwig to DW and he took a step backwards IMO. The drums are way too warm sounding. After the excellent drum sound on Counterparts it was disappointing. Not a big fan of the guitar sound here either. It's heavy yet almost mixed into the background on a lot of songs. I had a virtuoso guitar player friend of mine with me when I first bought this record(at Best Buy midnight) and he agreed that it sounds like the guitar was recorded in a french fryer.(was his words...lol) Too much of a straight ahead 4/4 feel on the record too. VT was heavy and we all know it had sonic problems, but at least VT is loaded with interesting arrangement ideas and odd times all over the place. All this being said, T4E did grow on me and has a few gems on there. Edited July 23, 2013 by presto123
rushgoober Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album.
coventry Posted July 23, 2013 Author Posted July 23, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Because it's one of the more real albums Rush has ever made - "real" in the sense of lyrical honesty and sonic interest (production aside - I'm just talking about structure and composition).
drbirdsong Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 When Test For Echo came out I tired to like it, but it felt like a slip backwards from Counterparts. It's a bit unfocused and has some going-through-the-motions feel to it. I'm not sure the band was of one mind on that one. I like it better than I used to especially after hearing Driven and some of the other songs live. The title track has held up very well and now when I listen to it I really dig the music more than I used to. Virtuality is a fine example of great music versus weak lyrics. I don't get the hatred for Dog Years, but the humor feels a little forced. To my way of thinking Vapor Trails was much better musically and lyrically despite its mastering issues.
Steevo Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Really? I haven't seen you mention that before. 2
rushgoober Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Really? I haven't seen you mention that before. Oh no? :P
rushgoober Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 (edited) Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Because it's one of the more real albums Rush has ever made - "real" in the sense of lyrical honesty and sonic interest (production aside - I'm just talking about structure and composition). The only thing real about VT is that it's REAL bad. Edited July 23, 2013 by rushgoober
Lerxster Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. That's a cop-out observation, Lerxster. Anyone's lyrics are what they want them to be - that doesn't make them successful or resonant. I just don't get the feeling that Neil especially believes in the lyrics on T4E; that any of them really resonate with him. The "my" in "Driven" ("it's MY turn to drive", etc.) - is that really Neil speaking or is that Neil hiding behind a generic speaker? With 'Scars" and "Chain Lightning" and "Losing It" and "Sweet Miracle" I know that's Neil behind those emotions. For much of T4E, it's not Neil; rather, it's Neil being different characters or handing out judgments of society. What I meant was, Neil writes what he writes, and well, let me quote myself since you didn't respond to my main point: If you don't dig the lyrics, no problem, but complaining they are not personal or intimate? They go there, but Rush is not known for their personal intimate lyrics. I don't get it. Obviously there was a bit of experimentation lyrically on T4E- or rather, continued experimentation. It seems like the lyrics didn't meet your expectations, subject wise. Neil, like Rush, change every album so to have lyric expectations is not realistic. And I reject your drift that Neil was being somehow disingenuous on this album
laughedatbytime Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 Half the world thinks that the lyrics to T4E suckAnd the other half the world agrees 4
LedRush Posted July 23, 2013 Posted July 23, 2013 After the complete inability to believable relate to others in CP (Animate and Nobody's Hero excepted), Neil tries another tack and write more about society and the way people attempt to interact. It is a very good album which stands head and shoulders above its predecessor in both music and lyrics. The album took the good sound from CP and really ignored the rest, making a good comeback album.
coventry Posted July 23, 2013 Author Posted July 23, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. That's a cop-out observation, Lerxster. Anyone's lyrics are what they want them to be - that doesn't make them successful or resonant. I just don't get the feeling that Neil especially believes in the lyrics on T4E; that any of them really resonate with him. The "my" in "Driven" ("it's MY turn to drive", etc.) - is that really Neil speaking or is that Neil hiding behind a generic speaker? With 'Scars" and "Chain Lightning" and "Losing It" and "Sweet Miracle" I know that's Neil behind those emotions. For much of T4E, it's not Neil; rather, it's Neil being different characters or handing out judgments of society. What I meant was, Neil writes what he writes, and well, let me quote myself since you didn't respond to my main point: If you don't dig the lyrics, no problem, but complaining they are not personal or intimate? They go there, but Rush is not known for their personal intimate lyrics. I don't get it. Obviously there was a bit of experimentation lyrically on T4E- or rather, continued experimentation. It seems like the lyrics didn't meet your expectations, subject wise. Neil, like Rush, change every album so to have lyric expectations is not realistic. And I reject your drift that Neil was being somehow disingenuous on this album Reject all you want, but there's almost nothing on this album that sounds sincere. In fact, when you factor in the socio-political drivel of "T4E", Neil comes across as even more narcissistic than usual.
Lerxster Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. That's a cop-out observation, Lerxster. Anyone's lyrics are what they want them to be - that doesn't make them successful or resonant. I just don't get the feeling that Neil especially believes in the lyrics on T4E; that any of them really resonate with him. The "my" in "Driven" ("it's MY turn to drive", etc.) - is that really Neil speaking or is that Neil hiding behind a generic speaker? With 'Scars" and "Chain Lightning" and "Losing It" and "Sweet Miracle" I know that's Neil behind those emotions. For much of T4E, it's not Neil; rather, it's Neil being different characters or handing out judgments of society. What I meant was, Neil writes what he writes, and well, let me quote myself since you didn't respond to my main point: If you don't dig the lyrics, no problem, but complaining they are not personal or intimate? They go there, but Rush is not known for their personal intimate lyrics. I don't get it. Obviously there was a bit of experimentation lyrically on T4E- or rather, continued experimentation. It seems like the lyrics didn't meet your expectations, subject wise. Neil, like Rush, change every album so to have lyric expectations is not realistic. And I reject your drift that Neil was being somehow disingenuous on this album Reject all you want, but there's almost nothing on this album that sounds sincere. In fact, when you factor in the socio-political drivel of "T4E", Neil comes across as even more narcissistic than usual.Even more narcissistic than usual? Uh boy. :eyeroll:
coventry Posted July 24, 2013 Author Posted July 24, 2013 Are the lyrics suppose to be personal or intimate? They are what Neil wants them to be. Driven seems very personal and intimate- "but it's my turn to drive". Resist is nothing but personal and intimate. I hear touches of personal or intimate in most of TFE's songs. That's a cop-out observation, Lerxster. Anyone's lyrics are what they want them to be - that doesn't make them successful or resonant. I just don't get the feeling that Neil especially believes in the lyrics on T4E; that any of them really resonate with him. The "my" in "Driven" ("it's MY turn to drive", etc.) - is that really Neil speaking or is that Neil hiding behind a generic speaker? With 'Scars" and "Chain Lightning" and "Losing It" and "Sweet Miracle" I know that's Neil behind those emotions. For much of T4E, it's not Neil; rather, it's Neil being different characters or handing out judgments of society. What I meant was, Neil writes what he writes, and well, let me quote myself since you didn't respond to my main point: If you don't dig the lyrics, no problem, but complaining they are not personal or intimate? They go there, but Rush is not known for their personal intimate lyrics. I don't get it. Obviously there was a bit of experimentation lyrically on T4E- or rather, continued experimentation. It seems like the lyrics didn't meet your expectations, subject wise. Neil, like Rush, change every album so to have lyric expectations is not realistic. And I reject your drift that Neil was being somehow disingenuous on this album Reject all you want, but there's almost nothing on this album that sounds sincere. In fact, when you factor in the socio-political drivel of "T4E", Neil comes across as even more narcissistic than usual.Even more narcissistic than usual? Uh boy. :eyeroll: I mean, I love the man and his work as much as the next guy, but having dove into his lyrics and prose for the past 25 years, he definitely is firmly entrenched in his opinion and world view.
goose Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 (I've moved this from the "Virtuality" thread as it seems more appropriate as a separate thread. Please forgive any forum hubris or trespass for doing that). Truthfully, none of the tunes on T4E seem at all personal or intimate. Not that Neil's a Tom Waits or Suzanne Vega of intimate lyrics, but this album really resonates with cold, mechanical lyrics. Even the attempts at humor get lost in Neil's view-from-on-high mentality. From the detached aloofness of the title track and "Totem", to the can't-think-of-a-topic mentality of "Dog Years", "Half the World", and "Color of Right", to the attempt-to-capture-the-social-buzz of "Virtuality", the album just falls flat. Even something as seemingly initmate as "Resist" is built around an unoriginal thought (first penned by Oscar Wilde) and I really don't believe Neil has had any trouble resisting temptation to any great extent. Neil and Oscar Wilde are diametric opposites in personality, whimsy, and where they stick/stuck their cocks. Compared with the open-heart surgery emotion of VT and the powerful explorarion of gender identity of CP, T4E comes across as Neil clutching at lyrical straws and, ultimately, sinking. In fact, the only songs with even a shred of personal depth and "flesh and blood and fire" are "Time and Motion" and "Carve Away the Stone". They're the only ones that feel accessible to anyone but Neil - I mean, we can all relate to that feeling of filling our days like boxcars in a train, or waiting for someone else to move before we can get on with our own life. But other than that, what's left are pithy observations about a two-dimensional world. Which is a shame as Neil has seen more of the world firsthand and intimately than most of us have. Compare, for instance, "Scars" or "Ghost Rider" or "Chain Lightning" with any of the paper cut-out lyrics on T4E. Edit: The music, as has been pointed out a bunch of times, is interesting and well-constructed, especially on "Totem" and a few others. In fact, this album grooves way more than others! :goodone: Perhaps life was too good at that point in time, leaving him uninspired and left with little more than banal musings as material to write around. Suffering makes for good art, as you note in your reference to the gut-wrenchingly personal and transparent lyrics of Vapor Trails. From T4E, I do like Neil's work on Time and Motion. "Lives connect in webs of gold and razor wire" is well-crafted, for example. 1
goose Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Really? I haven't seen you mention that before. :syrinx:
goose Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) We can pick apart the lyrics in a lot of songs on T4E, and rightly so, but the truth of the matter, and what's even more important, is that while T4E is a weak effort from Rush, compared to VT, it's a frickin masterpiece.There is clearly a gaping hole in your soul that renders you incapable of empathy. Edited July 24, 2013 by goose
KenJennings Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Why can't joy make for good art? Hearing Rush fans complain about T4E's cheesy 'fun' tone is like hearing Larry Flint complain that a porn is too hardcore. This is the kind of thing Rush is all about. They don't play to whatever is 'cool', they play in deference to style and mainstream expectations. They are about the raw expression of individualism- with no concern about whether they are cheesy or not. Embrace the cheese. Love the cheese. Find the joy in cheese. 2
Steevo Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 Ha - I like VT so much better. I love all the different opinions! I often don't mind differences of opinions, except when it comes to VT. I cannot fathom with one ounce of my being how anyone could like that album. Really? I haven't seen you mention that before. Oh no? :P ;)
calirush Posted July 24, 2013 Posted July 24, 2013 After the complete inability to believable relate to others in CP (Animate and Nobody's Hero excepted), Neil tries another tack and write more about society and the way people attempt to interact. It is a very good album which stands head and shoulders above its predecessor in both music and lyrics. The album took the good sound from CP and really ignored the rest, making a good comeback album. No matter the thread you always find a way to put your "I hate CP" point of view into the discussion.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now