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Live Overdubs??


Rockosmith
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Sorry if this has been discussed. Can anyone tell me how much if any overdub work has been put into the live albums? The only info I could find was some minor overdubbing on ESL. Most of their live releases just sound too darn perfect.
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There's a fairly obvious dub in the ATWAS version of 2112, and a more subltle one in the ATWAS version of Bytor.
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Sorry if this has been discussed. Can anyone tell me how much if any overdub work has been put into the live albums? The only info I could find was some minor overdubbing on ESL. Most of their live releases just sound too darn perfect.

 

It's funny you should bring this up. The other day, when I was watching Rush In Rio, I wondered the same thing. I thought it was too perfect sounding for a concert. With the exception of Limelight (where Geddy's voice really sounded bad), I thought I even detected the singing and Geddy's lips off by a fraction of a second. Could be my imagination. Or could be my DVD player.

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I saw many complaints on the audio quality of Rush in Rio-mixing is bad, crowd to forward, etc. If my suspicions are correct, they did very little if any overdubbing on this release, bumped the crowd noise to mask the subtle mistakes. In comparison, A Show of Hands, it sounds like a studio recording-almost as if all the vocals were done later. I hope not... :(
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I saw many complaints on the audio quality of Rush in Rio-mixing is bad, crowd to forward, etc. If my suspicions are correct, they did very little if any overdubbing on this release, bumped the crowd noise to mask the subtle mistakes. In comparison, A Show of Hands, it sounds like a studio recording-almost as if all the vocals were done later. I hope not... :(

 

"as if all the vocals were done later." - well, that's not true at all. The vocals ARE live. You think it sounds "too good to be live" because the audio was remastered for the DVD release, and the final cut contains some auto tune on the vocals. Sad to think of, but true...

You can notice it here (skip to 1:15):

 

I've also noticed few corrections on the Time Machine DVD. The most noticeable one is the "a cell of..." vocal part on Freewill. The vocals on the DVD during that part are different from the one you can hear on the actual show. Here's a front row video of Freewill from Cleveland (1:20):

 

The second dub I've noticed on the TM DVD is on Presto, which is a correction for a little mistake the band made during the song. I think they made this mistake to prove us they're human beans, after all ;)

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I saw many complaints on the audio quality of Rush in Rio-mixing is bad, crowd to forward, etc. If my suspicions are correct, they did very little if any overdubbing on this release, bumped the crowd noise to mask the subtle mistakes. In comparison, A Show of Hands, it sounds like a studio recording-almost as if all the vocals were done later. I hope not... :(

 

"as if all the vocals were done later." - well, that's not true at all. The vocals ARE live. You think it sounds "too good to be live" because the audio was remastered for the DVD release, and the final cut contains some auto tune on the vocals. Sad to think of, but true...

You can notice it here (skip to 1:15):

 

I've also noticed few corrections on the Time Machine DVD. The most noticeable one is the "a cell of..." vocal part on Freewill. The vocals on the DVD during that part are different from the one you can hear on the actual show. Here's a front row video of Freewill from Cleveland (1:20):

 

The second dub I've noticed on the TM DVD is on Presto, which is a correction for a little mistake the band made during the song. I think they made this mistake to prove us they're human beans, after all ;)

 

Thanks for the info! I will check it out. I have no issue with them fixing up the live albums with some small overdubs,EQing, etc. What I would be bummed about is if they re-recorded entire songs-be it just the vocals, drums, etc.

 

Exit..Stage Left was my first meeting with Rush and I have heard a little about people saying it's too overproduced-not sure what they actually mean by this-but It's still my favorite for sentimental reasons.

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I saw many complaints on the audio quality of Rush in Rio-mixing is bad, crowd to forward, etc. If my suspicions are correct, they did very little if any overdubbing on this release, bumped the crowd noise to mask the subtle mistakes. In comparison, A Show of Hands, it sounds like a studio recording-almost as if all the vocals were done later. I hope not... :(

 

"as if all the vocals were done later." - well, that's not true at all. The vocals ARE live. You think it sounds "too good to be live" because the audio was remastered for the DVD release, and the final cut contains some auto tune on the vocals. Sad to think of, but true...

You can notice it here (skip to 1:15):

 

I've also noticed few corrections on the Time Machine DVD. The most noticeable one is the "a cell of..." vocal part on Freewill. The vocals on the DVD during that part are different from the one you can hear on the actual show. Here's a front row video of Freewill from Cleveland (1:20):

 

The second dub I've noticed on the TM DVD is on Presto, which is a correction for a little mistake the band made during the song. I think they made this mistake to prove us they're human beans, after all ;)

Just checked Freewill, it's true that it's different but it's still amazingly good (full voice, better than the original studio version to me, wich was more a bizarre throat voice..) !! he still CAN sing these high parts when we wants to make the effort ;)

The real thing that bothers me and i don't know if it's already been mentionned, is that alex is always doing fake background vocals over geddy's sampled backing vocals during live shows... No need to do that, there are already tons of instrument's samples they trigger themself live with their foot pedals so there's no shame to launch backing vocals and it's part of the performance to do it at the right time!

I'd rather hear alex's real voice rather than seeing him behind the mic for nothing!

I guess it's better visually but I would more expect that from a Janet Jackon show... :)

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It's common practice to "patch it up" in the studio afterwards. Think it was Kiss who started it, because back in the day they wanted their energy from live shows to come across on recordings. It never worked until they put some overdubs on it. I can't remember which documentary it was I saw, so please take my word for it.

 

Another example is Peter Gabriel's Plays Live album. The liner notes states as follows: 'Although this album was compiled from four concerts in the mid-west of the United States, some additional recording took place not a thousand miles away from the home of the artiste. The generic term of this process is "cheating". Care has been taken to keep the essence of the gigs intact, including "human imperfection". The producers.'

 

Personally it doesn't bother me, as long as it's not a complete re-recording of the concert.

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It's common practice to "patch it up" in the studio afterwards. Think it was Kiss who started it, because back in the day they wanted their energy from live shows to come across on recordings. It never worked until they put some overdubs on it. I can't remember which documentary it was I saw, so please take my word for it.

 

Another example is Peter Gabriel's Plays Live album. The liner notes states as follows: 'Although this album was compiled from four concerts in the mid-west of the United States, some additional recording took place not a thousand miles away from the home of the artiste. The generic term of this process is "cheating". Care has been taken to keep the essence of the gigs intact, including "human imperfection". The producers.'

 

Personally it doesn't bother me, as long as it's not a complete re-recording of the concert.

 

Oh no, it goes back a long time. Oldest example off the top of my head would be KCs USA, where most of David Cross' parts had to be re-done by Eddie Jobson.

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It's common practice to "patch it up" in the studio afterwards. Think it was Kiss who started it, because back in the day they wanted their energy from live shows to come across on recordings. It never worked until they put some overdubs on it. I can't remember which documentary it was I saw, so please take my word for it.

 

Another example is Peter Gabriel's Plays Live album. The liner notes states as follows: 'Although this album was compiled from four concerts in the mid-west of the United States, some additional recording took place not a thousand miles away from the home of the artiste. The generic term of this process is "cheating". Care has been taken to keep the essence of the gigs intact, including "human imperfection". The producers.'

 

Personally it doesn't bother me, as long as it's not a complete re-recording of the concert.

 

Oh no, it goes back a long time. Oldest example off the top of my head would be KCs USA, where most of David Cross' parts had to be re-done by Eddie Jobson.

 

Okay, did not know that. But we make the same point :)

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There's a fairly obvious dub in the ATWAS version of 2112, and a more subltle one in the ATWAS version of Bytor.

 

Where?

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There's a fairly obvious dub in the ATWAS version of 2112, and a more subltle one in the ATWAS version of Bytor.

 

Where?

 

The first measure and half (or so) of the Overtures solo (about 11:59 - 12:05).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBNRierFueI

 

 

 

And in Bytor, listen carefully for the "ghosting" at 1:16 - 1:25

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There's a fairly obvious dub in the ATWAS version of 2112, and a more subltle one in the ATWAS version of Bytor.

 

Where?

 

The first measure and half (or so) of the Overtures solo (about 11:59 - 12:05).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBNRierFueI

 

 

 

And in Bytor, listen carefully for the "ghosting" at 1:16 - 1:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBpVKwwmh-Q

I don't know what you're talking about. It really just sounds like Alex hit a string, then hit another string while the previous string was still vibrating. Is there something I'm missing?
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There's a fairly obvious dub in the ATWAS version of 2112, and a more subltle one in the ATWAS version of Bytor.

 

Where?

 

The first measure and half (or so) of the Overtures solo (about 11:59 - 12:05).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBNRierFueI

 

 

 

And in Bytor, listen carefully for the "ghosting" at 1:16 - 1:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBpVKwwmh-Q

I don't know what you're talking about. It really just sounds like Alex hit a string, then hit another string while the previous string was still vibrating. Is there something I'm missing?

 

You're asking about Bytor, I presume?

 

He's hitting harmonics during that section and if you're a player, then you know that when you hit a harmonic, you lift your hand off the string(s) as soon as you sound them, but in this track you can hear underneath the harmonics some lower notes which are not harmonics which means he would have to have been fretting those notes. Additionally those low notes are coming from a different channel -- Alex didn't run a stereo rig back then. The most reasonable explanation for those stereo-separated non-harmonic notes is that they were bleeding through from someone else's instrument mic (maybe Geddy's) from a different take.

Edited by JARG
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Guitar solos and vocals get cleaned up. I have read that much of ESL is rerecorded. At least it's not like KISS Alive II which is sound checks with added audience noise.
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This one.... it is hard to tell if it is a studio overdub or just a close directional mic with a noise-gate to block out the ambient surrounding sounds . . .

 

ESL - Limelight vocals isolated

 

There's something funny going on with "I" in the "I can't pretend a stranger..." line...a sloppy punch-in, maybe?Di

 

Ditto for "universal" in the chorus after the solo.

Edited by JARG
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What we can be thankful for is that Rush does a lot less post-production on live material than some other famous bands, with ESL being somewhat of an exception.
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