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Alex's back-up vocals??


Domenic
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Okay....I've been a Rush fan since Fly By Night and I love everything about their music. Being a musician myself, it's hard not to be influenced by their masterful playing. But one thing that bothers me when I see them live (since the Hold Your Fire era) is when Alex sings "back-up vocals" when they're obviously Geddy's sample tracks. I realize that the complexity of Rush's music calls for the use of triggers and samples for their live shows but it hurts to watch Alex lip sync to Geddy's voice. Is Alex just triggering a sample by doing this? Is Alex singing along with the mic turned down? I've seen instances where you could actually hear Alex's voice but for the most part, you can't. I'm surprised that this subject doesn't come up more often in discussions. I'd like to hear some other opinions on this.....
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Well right now I'm watching the ASOH video on youtube in another Chrome tab (current song, "Manhattan Project") and I have absolutely no problem hearing Alex sing (and I can't help but squeal a bit every time *ahem*). I think he does a pretty good job.
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The impression I have is that they use both solutions at the same time: Geddy's sampled backing vocals and Alex singing, with a VERY low volume, to give the impression that he's the one actually doing the vocals.
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Okay....I've been a Rush fan since Fly By Night and I love everything about their music. Being a musician myself, it's hard not to be influenced by their masterful playing. But one thing that bothers me when I see them live (since the Hold Your Fire era) is when Alex sings "back-up vocals" when they're obviously Geddy's sample tracks. I realize that the complexity of Rush's music calls for the use of triggers and samples for their live shows but it hurts to watch Alex lip sync to Geddy's voice. Is Alex just triggering a sample by doing this? Is Alex singing along with the mic turned down? I've seen instances where you could actually hear Alex's voice but for the most part, you can't. I'm surprised that this subject doesn't come up more often in discussions. I'd like to hear some other opinions on this.....

 

I believe he's singing along to a sample, with his voice buried in the mix. It creates an "illusion" of sorts that it's his voice you're hearing. I don't particularly like it either. Generally, songs with the Geddy chorus that Geddy can't recreate live (because he's singing lead) are the weakers ones to begin with. Wish they would just drop that style altogether.

 

I've read others speculate that maybe by singing along he "triggers" the sample, but I seriously doubt that. Maybe one of our tech-nerds/wizards would know if that's even possible.

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Alex definitely is singing. Back in the older days they had his mic pretty damn loud. If you look on youtube, you can find random concerts from SnA, TM, and some CA shows where they don't have it as low as it should be, and you can really here him. As for the Geddy samples, 95% of the time they are set off by Ged. I've seen Alex do a few though, such as "We are Young" in dreamline, and "Turn around" in the pass.
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There are songs that you can clearly hear Alex singing in. Check out the Rush in Rio DVD or album and on Subdivisions you can loudly and clearly hear Alex sing "Blah, blah, blah." or on Dreamline I think his vocals may even be louder than Geddy's are when he sings "Blah, blah blah blah.".
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Let's look at a song like "Subdivisions". In the more recent live videos....it's definitely not Alex saying "SUBDIVISIONS" ....it's not even Geddy (it's actually the late Mark Daly from CityTV Toronto News). It just looks a bit weird when Alex gets behind the mic and lip syncs SUBDIVISIONS in a low, ominous voice. In earlier days, he used to "try" and say it himself. It didn't sound as good, but it looked a little more authentic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiNc2lGuxQ

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Let's look at a song like "Subdivisions". In the more recent live videos....it's definitely not Alex saying "SUBDIVISIONS" ....it's not even Geddy (it's actually the late Mark Daly from CityTV Toronto News). It just looks a bit weird when Alex gets behind the mic and lip syncs SUBDIVISIONS in a low, ominous voice. In earlier days, he used to "try" and say it himself. It didn't sound as good, but it looked a little more authentic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiNc2lGuxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Lx_PLPUNE

 

You know they have technology to alter his voice to say "subdivisions" more like the actual album, right?

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This is something I've wondered about, too - is the audience really supposed to believe it's Alex singing along, when it's obviously Geddy's voice in the background? Though Alex does sometimes actually sing, or at least can be heard singing.

 

An example is 'Closer to the Heart' from the A View From the Palace dvd bootleg (should be able to find it on youtube - Auburn Hills, Michigan, March 22, 1994) - Alex definitely sings along with Geddy during the closing refrain, and even takes over the singing ("Closer to your couch").

 

I'm understanding that Alex doesn't do much singing because he's not that great a singer, though he likes to sing (I think I've gotten this from an interview from somewhere), but yeah, as to why concert songs are often set up to make it seem like Alex is singing when it isn't his voice - I don't know. I hope the boys haven't set that up to try to fool their audience into thinking Alex is singing those back-up Geddy parts... because we certainly know what is Geddy's voice and what isn't!

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Let's look at a song like "Subdivisions". In the more recent live videos....it's definitely not Alex saying "SUBDIVISIONS" ....it's not even Geddy (it's actually the late Mark Daly from CityTV Toronto News). It just looks a bit weird when Alex gets behind the mic and lip syncs SUBDIVISIONS in a low, ominous voice. In earlier days, he used to "try" and say it himself. It didn't sound as good, but it looked a little more authentic.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiNc2lGuxQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2Lx_PLPUNE

 

You know they have technology to alter his voice to say "subdivisions" more like the actual album, right?

 

It's pretty much a sample which Alex triggers with his synth/sampler pedals. Unlike on the previous tours, he isn't lip syncing on Subdivisions anymore. If you watch videos from the latest shows, you can notice he doesn't even open his mouth during the word "Subdivisions", though he still triggers the sample with his foot.

He might not be saying the word, but he's definitely singing the "Any escape.." part.

 

p.s I don't know about the rest of the songs, but you can definitely hear his voice on the Freewill chorus.

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Alex sings. I'd guess he's autotuned since he's not a singer. I think there's no way he's phony singing and faking it. That'd be ridiculous.

This is sort of correct. He is singing through digital/computer processing which changes his voice to sound like whatever the hell they want it to sound like, same technology as autotone. So he can sound like Geddy or like ethereal choirs from dee hebbins or like a giant fart depending on the tweak of a knob.

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Great topic.

 

I recall a friend of mine who worked in radio mentioning to me (many years ago) that he'd heard isolated recordings of Alex's singing during live shows..... and that they weren't all that flattering.

 

I suppose it would be possible to isolate Alex's vocal mic, and it'd be interesting to hear it. I wonder if anything of the sort can be found online?

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Alex sings. I'd guess he's autotuned since he's not a singer. I think there's no way he's phony singing and faking it. That'd be ridiculous.

This is sort of correct. He is singing through digital/computer processing which changes his voice to sound like whatever the hell they want it to sound like, same technology as autotone. So he can sound like Geddy or like ethereal choirs from dee hebbins or like a giant fart depending on the tweak of a knob.

 

Oh, can anyone imagine - Rush is putting on a fantastic show, everything is perfect, and then they realize someone has messed up the back-up singing setting when loud farting noises suddenly erupt from Alex's mic.... I wonder how the band would react to that? Oh, the looks on everyone's faces would be priceless!

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Alex sings. I'd guess he's autotuned since he's not a singer. I think there's no way he's phony singing and faking it. That'd be ridiculous.

This is sort of correct. He is singing through digital/computer processing which changes his voice to sound like whatever the hell they want it to sound like, same technology as autotone. So he can sound like Geddy or like ethereal choirs from dee hebbins or like a giant fart depending on the tweak of a knob.

Yeah thanks, that's kind of where I was trying to go. In essence, his mic'd vocals are modulated to suit the song.

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Great topic.

 

I recall a friend of mine who worked in radio mentioning to me (many years ago) that he'd heard isolated recordings of Alex's singing during live shows..... and that they weren't all that flattering.

 

I suppose it would be possible to isolate Alex's vocal mic, and it'd be interesting to hear it. I wonder if anything of the sort can be found online?

 

This is a pretty entertaining site. :LOL:

 

http://www.musicintheabstract.org/#OdD Vocals - Alex sings!! (OdD, because he sings) -

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This made me wonder, too. My Hubby - the techie - explained that the sound board can change Alex's voice to sound like Geddy. Personally, I don't think he's THAT bad of a singer. LIsten to his solo album some time; he sings on At The End. Still, it's good that Geddy is their lead singer ;)
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I am not going to pretend that I am an expert since I'm not, but some of that backup vocal is low. Can Geddy sing that low? I am thinking in particular of Secret Touch from Rio.

 

And while we are on this subject, I have noticed that a lot of the background music is canned as well.

 

Well. It's better than going to a concert forty years ago and being disappointed because the band didn't even come close to sounding like the album cut.

Edited by Lorraine
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The CBC live broadcasting of RUSH's performance at the 2003 Toronto Rocks SARS benefit concert is where you can really hear Alex's background vocals during the performance. If anyone sees the video on YouTube with the CBC logo on the bottom right, it means this is the version that wasn't edited.

 

Whereas the truncated performance on the DVD release is mixed where Alex's mic is removed and Geddy's background vocals added.

Edited by RushFanForever
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