Star Trek Into Darkness (SPOILERS)

[Principled Man]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. It was fun to watch but it has its share of flaws. It's far from the top of what Trek has to offer, but not quite at the bottom either. I feel it was a wasted opportunity for excellent political commentary. Think about it: if the USS Vengeance looked exactly like all the other starfleet vessels, and the admiral and his crew weren't distinguished from the others in any way (aside from rank), it would have been more along the lines of "starfleet isn't perfect" with the main antagonist acting as the unpredictable factor. Throw in the Klingons bordering on war and it would have been amazing, probably close to Star Trek 6 but at least it would have had a good plot. As it stands, this is just a mindless sci-fi action movie with a Star Trek wrapper with attention to detail/homages to the original series.

 

I see what you mean, but IMO, the political element was well-covered in The Undiscovered Country. Starfleet officers conspired to prevent peace and continue the hostilities with the Klingons. They wanted to start (and win) a war, just like Admiral Marcus did.

 

In this new Starfleet timeline (and Admiral Marcus admitted this), the destruction of Vulcan and near-destruction of Earth motivated Star Fleet to expand their exploration of the quadrant as well as develop bigger and badder weapons (thanks to Section 31). The Romulan attack and early discovery of Khan and his crew altered the natural development of Starfleet. It developed rogue officers decades before what happened in the original timeline.

 

The dark-colored, predator-like USS Vengeance, to me, represents turning to the Dark Side. It's why the film was titled Into Darkness. Khan was born evil, Marcus turned evil, and Kirk and Spock almost turned evil.

 

As much as that explanation is plausible, my issue with that is there is a logical reason for wanting war ships in the federation. There was a 2 part episode on DS9 where changelings had supposedly invaded Earth but it turns out that it's just a power grab to get some militia on Earth. Same idea for motivation, just no black enterprise.

 

I can see that. I do think that the producers really liked the idea of Section 31, which is like a future version of the CIA. Rogue, dark, and quite untrustworthy. I can see a LOT of film producers wanting to make the CIA look bad.....

 

As for that story being covered in ST6, Khan was covered in ST2. If they're going to rehash a story, they may as well have a rehashing with substance.

 

I never wanted to see a rehash of Khan, but when I saw that it was happening, I just accepted it. They should have stayed with a South Asian Khan, IMO. Making him a white Englishman had me scratching my head. I've read that it's pissed off a few Sikhs, who wanted Khan's ethnicity to stay the same.

[ReRushed]

Overall, I enjoyed the movie. It was fun to watch but it has its share of flaws. It's far from the top of what Trek has to offer, but not quite at the bottom either. I feel it was a wasted opportunity for excellent political commentary. Think about it: if the USS Vengeance looked exactly like all the other starfleet vessels, and the admiral and his crew weren't distinguished from the others in any way (aside from rank), it would have been more along the lines of "starfleet isn't perfect" with the main antagonist acting as the unpredictable factor. Throw in the Klingons bordering on war and it would have been amazing, probably close to Star Trek 6 but at least it would have had a good plot. As it stands, this is just a mindless sci-fi action movie with a Star Trek wrapper with attention to detail/homages to the original series.

 

I see what you mean, but IMO, the political element was well-covered in The Undiscovered Country. Starfleet officers conspired to prevent peace and continue the hostilities with the Klingons. They wanted to start (and win) a war, just like Admiral Marcus did.

 

In this new Starfleet timeline (and Admiral Marcus admitted this), the destruction of Vulcan and near-destruction of Earth motivated Star Fleet to expand their exploration of the quadrant as well as develop bigger and badder weapons (thanks to Section 31). The Romulan attack and early discovery of Khan and his crew altered the natural development of Starfleet. It developed rogue officers decades before what happened in the original timeline.

 

The dark-colored, predator-like USS Vengeance, to me, represents turning to the Dark Side. It's why the film was titled Into Darkness. Khan was born evil, Marcus turned evil, and Kirk and Spock almost turned evil.

 

As much as that explanation is plausible, my issue with that is there is a logical reason for wanting war ships in the federation. There was a 2 part episode on DS9 where changelings had supposedly invaded Earth but it turns out that it's just a power grab to get some militia on Earth. Same idea for motivation, just no black enterprise.

 

I can see that. I do think that the producers really liked the idea of Section 31, which is like a future version of the CIA. Rogue, dark, and quite untrustworthy. I can see a LOT of film producers wanting to make the CIA look bad.....

 

As for that story being covered in ST6, Khan was covered in ST2. If they're going to rehash a story, they may as well have a rehashing with substance.

 

I never wanted to see a rehash of Khan, but when I saw that it was happening, I just accepted it. They should have stayed with a South Asian Khan, IMO. Making him a white Englishman had me scratching my head. I've read that it's pissed off a few Sikhs, who wanted Khan's ethnicity to stay the same.

 

Benicio Del Toro apparently turned the role down. Benedict Cumberbatch makes no sense as Kahn. The character of Kahn was totally wasted in this movie. Totally generic with no attachment to or spirit with what Ricardo Montalban created. As good an actor as Cumberbatch may be, he's no Kahn. Kahn is dead.

Edited May 20, 2013 by ReRushed

[AFarewellToHemispheres]

Insurrection was a fine movie. Nothing fancy. But it was OK. It was basically just a big budget two part episode of TNG. Which is exactly what I want from the TNG crew: good episodic storytelling.

 

As for First Contract vs TWOK, I think First Contact would be much more accessible to a non-trekkie. I think it contains the best acting in any Star Trek movie, the special effects look great, the TNG crew is still spry and relevant, and that argument scene between Lily and Picard in the briefing room is one of the most impassioned and emotionally intense moments in Star Trek history. First Contact, in my eyes, is a masterpiece that I don't think Star Trek could ever top again. It is a nearly perfect movie, start to finish.

 

 

In my opinion Insurrection is like Search for Spock, it's not a bad movie but neither is it a great one it's just meh. I think most people's criticisms of it and I am inclined to agree with them is that it felt like an episode and when faced with this kind of dilemma before they've always sided with Starfleet.

[Del_Duio]

No, it's not spelled Kronos, it's Qo'nos

 

I f*ckin' KNEW IT!!!

 

I said to myself: What, it's not Kronos?!

 

I just saw this last night. I thought it was very good however the ending was much too abrupt. I'll give them points for not taking the movie in the direction I thought it would though- How many of you guys thought they were going to fully re-inact the whole "cat and mouse" scene with the 2 damaged starships right out of Wrath of Khan?

 

And I have to admit, I liked how they reversed the roles of the Spock dying scene at the end of WoK.. but.. well when Spock yells "KHAAAAANN!!!" my first reaction was that it was sort of cheesy.

 

Very good, probably not as good as 2009's Star Trek but that was a highwater mark for the whole film series IMO. Here's how I'd list them now. For the record I really like First Contact however after seeing it more than 10 times the whole bits on Earth with Zephrim Cochran are old and tired and don't hold up nearly as well as the rest of the movie. Nemesis is still a solid bottom. To give the amazing cast of TNG a swansong like that crap was terrible, and it nearly killed the franchise I've watched near my whole life.

 

1) Wrath of Khan

2) Star Trek 2009

3) Undiscovered Country

4) Into Darkness

5) The Voyage Home

6) Search for Spock

7) Insurrection

8) Generations

9) The Final Frontier

10) The Motionless Picture

11) Nemesis

 

P.S: The Dreadnaught Class is AWESOME, bring that shit back for the next one!

[Del_Duio]

Here's how I think the next movie will open:

 

A Kllingon bird of prey hovers over the site of the Khan vs. Klingons massacre. A couple of them beam down (or rappel, as it looks like Klingons are now Navy SEALs now haha) and they find a starfleet phaser that was dropped sometime during the first.

 

Thus starting the War that Admril Marcus wanted all along. I think they wouldn't introduce Klingons in this one if they weren't going to use them in the next one.

[pedro2112]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

[Principled Man]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

[Principled Man]

And I have to admit, I liked how they reversed the roles of the Spock dying scene at the end of WoK.. but.. well when Spock yells "KHAAAAANN!!!" my first reaction was that it was sort of cheesy.

 

IMO, the best thing about Abrams' reboot of Star Trek is how he tweaks the timeline here and there. Because of the actions of Nero in the first film, the lives and destinies of everyone are changed a little bit in some places, and are changed greatly in other places. The discovery of Khan and his fellow supermen occurred sooner, technological advancements occur sooner, the crew of the Enterprise is altered, etc.

 

To me, it's fascinating to see how one time-travel event can alter even the smallest actions by people....like who gets to yell "KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANN!!!!!" :laughing guy:

Edited May 21, 2013 by Principled Man

[Del_Duio]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

 

And I believe that's the terrible movie where they showed a picture of Picard back in his academy days and he was BALD. This makes absolutely no sense, even in the TNG epsiode Tapestry they elude to Picard's hair (since he was a cadet in reality though we still see the regular Picard).

 

First Contact is a much much better movie.

Edited May 21, 2013 by Del_Duio

[Principled Man]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

 

And I believe that's the terrible movie where they showed a picture of Picard back in his academy days and he was BALD. This makes absolutely no sense, even in the TNG epsiode Tapestry they elude to Picard's hair (since he was a cadet in reality though we still see the regular Picard).

 

First Contact is a much much better movie.

 

Nemesis was bad in many, many ways. Even the actors said it sucked. :o :o

[pedro2112]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

Phew! I really liked the one with the Borg, and I was worried that was Nemisis... and therfore inducing the nerd rage of the trekkies on this board.

[AFarewellToHemispheres]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

Phew! I really liked the one with the Borg, and I was worried that was Nemisis... and therfore inducing the nerd rage of the trekkies on this board.

 

I personally think Nemesis gets a bit too much hate. It's not the worst but then again it's not that great either. The thing about it is it's a recognisable John Logan script. A story with good ideas and themes that just can't be knitted together in a well enough way. The ideas were good, the execution was bad.

[Principled Man]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

Phew! I really liked the one with the Borg, and I was worried that was Nemisis... and therfore inducing the nerd rage of the trekkies on this board.

 

I personally think Nemesis gets a bit too much hate. It's not the worst but then again it's not that great either. The thing about it is it's a recognisable John Logan script. A story with good ideas and themes that just can't be knitted together in a well enough way. The ideas were good, the execution was bad.

 

I find it very interesting to compare Into Darkness to Nemesis. Into Darkness is a reboot or alternate story of the Enterprise's battle with Khan. Nemesis, IMO, was a shameless borrowing of the Wrath of Khan story....right down to the battle occurring in a dark nebula. The crew is in transition. The brilliant yet sadistic villain has an obsession with the Captain, who questions his life and how he's lived it. The Captain's closest officer sacrifices himself to save the crew. We also get a teaser at the end, where the beloved officer may not be all that dead. I thought it was proof that the film makers had run out of ideas.

 

I liked the ideas in Into Darkness much better than in either Wrath of Khan or Nemesis. How far will you go to protect the ones you love? If you can't even break a rule, how can you break a man's bones? Will you play by the rules, or will you hurt and even kill people? Will you turn to the dark side and commit murder, with the belief that the ends justify the means? The officer with the dying daughter faced that decision, as did Admiral Marcus, Kirk, and Spock.

[USB Connector]

Was Nemesis the one with the Borg?

 

Star Trek: First Contact featured the Borg. Excellent film. :ebert:

 

Nemesis featured an evil clone of Picard, who conquered Romulus. Not an excellent film. :boo hiss:

Phew! I really liked the one with the Borg, and I was worried that was Nemisis... and therfore inducing the nerd rage of the trekkies on this board.

 

It was fantastic. It had a great balance of action and plot. The only gripe I had with the film was the borg queen, but that damage was caused by Voyager, not the movie itself. I wish into darkness had a similar balance instead of half the movie being explosions/chases.

Edited May 22, 2013 by USB Connector

[Rushian King]

But seriously, we can say McCoy knew for a fact that Khan's blood could revive another life form, but he wasn't sure about the others. He couldn't take the chance of having Khan killed and then finding out that the other prisoners were incompatible.

 

But Kirk was dead already, why not try other blood rather than wait for the chance that Khan would be caught? What if there was a time limit on the blood reviving Kirk? There was no legitimate reason to wait for Khan's blood other than the writer's wrote it that way for dramatic affect.

[Principled Man]

But seriously, we can say McCoy knew for a fact that Khan's blood could revive another life form, but he wasn't sure about the others. He couldn't take the chance of having Khan killed and then finding out that the other prisoners were incompatible.

 

But Kirk was dead already, why not try other blood rather than wait for the chance that Khan would be caught? What if there was a time limit on the blood reviving Kirk? There was no legitimate reason to wait for Khan's blood other than the writer's wrote it that way for dramatic affect.

 

As I said in my previous post, what if the other blood had been incompatible?

[Principled Man]

Hilarious interview with Simon Pegg and Alice Eve. Pegg has her almost wetting herself from laughing so hard.... :laughing guy: :laughing guy:

 

[Rushian King]

But seriously, we can say McCoy knew for a fact that Khan's blood could revive another life form, but he wasn't sure about the others. He couldn't take the chance of having Khan killed and then finding out that the other prisoners were incompatible.

 

But Kirk was dead already, why not try other blood rather than wait for the chance that Khan would be caught? What if there was a time limit on the blood reviving Kirk? There was no legitimate reason to wait for Khan's blood other than the writer's wrote it that way for dramatic affect.

 

As I said in my previous post, what if the other blood had been incompatible?

 

And what if Khan's blood was only able to revive that one tribble? Sorry, there's absolutely no reason to believe that Khan's blood would be any better at reviving Kirk than any of his other family members.

[Ancient Ways]

Great movie. Gonna have to disagree with the previous opinions on cumberbatch. Thought he was a great khan and this version is a more believable portrayal than montalabans.

[ReRushed]

Great movie. Gonna have to disagree with the previous opinions on cumberbatch. Thought he was a great khan and this version is a more believable portrayal than montalabans.

 

If you enjoy generic villians!

[Principled Man]

Great movie. Gonna have to disagree with the previous opinions on cumberbatch. Thought he was a great khan and this version is a more believable portrayal than montalabans.

 

If you enjoy generic villians!

 

What should the villain have been like?

[ReRushed]

There's no reason the villian had to be Kahn in this movie. What's the purpose of it being Kahn? Why? So in the last part of the movie the writers can make a pseudo-remake of The Wrath of Kahn? The same story could've been told with another character in Kahn's role. The real villian is Admiral Marcus, not Kahn. Kahn is replaceable. Edited May 25, 2013 by ReRushed

[Principled Man]

There's no reason the villian had to be Khan in this movie. What's the purpose of it being Khan? Why? So in the last part of the movie the writers can make a pseudo-remake of The Wrath of Khan? The same story could've been told with another character in Khan's role. The real villian is Admiral Marcus, not Khan. Khan is replaceable.

 

You know what would have been cool? Have Khan be one of the still frozen supermen, with John Harrison (his actual name) being the one who Marcus thawed out and used. That would have been a very ironic twist to the story, and it would have prevented all arguments about Khan, his ethnicity, and the false need to remake The Wrath of Khan. As everyone's destinies were altered in the first film, it's quite plausible that Khan would not be revived in the new course of events.

[ReRushed]

There's no reason the villian had to be Khan in this movie. What's the purpose of it being Khan? Why? So in the last part of the movie the writers can make a pseudo-remake of The Wrath of Khan? The same story could've been told with another character in Khan's role. The real villian is Admiral Marcus, not Khan. Khan is replaceable.

 

You know what would have been cool? Have Khan be one of the still frozen supermen, with John Harrison (his actual name) being the one who Marcus thawed out and used. That would have been a very ironic twist to the story, and it would have prevented all arguments about Khan, his ethnicity, and the false need to remake The Wrath of Khan. As everyone's destinies were altered in the first film, it's quite plausible that Khan would not be revived in the new course of events.

 

As a fan it's fun to speculate stuff like this. In the end, I thought it was an okay film. I put my nitpicking aside and I enjoyed it for the most part, mostly because of the Enterprise crew. I would never have thought characters like Kirk, Spock, McCoy and Scottie could be played by other actors. They are all great.

[ReRushed]

There's no reason the villian had to be Khan in this movie. What's the purpose of it being Khan? Why? So in the last part of the movie the writers can make a pseudo-remake of The Wrath of Khan? The same story could've been told with another character in Khan's role. The real villian is Admiral Marcus, not Khan. Khan is replaceable.

 

You know what would have been cool? Have Khan be one of the still frozen supermen, with John Harrison (his actual name) being the one who Marcus thawed out and used. That would have been a very ironic twist to the story, and it would have prevented all arguments about Khan, his ethnicity, and the false need to remake The Wrath of Khan. As everyone's destinies were altered in the first film, it's quite plausible that Khan would not be revived in the new course of events.

 

A story about John Harrison trying to revive Khan has potential.