Would Rush have "made it" if they had never met Neil?

[Thunder Bay Rush]

I always wondered about this and seeing the pictures the other day of Rush (with Neil) playing an outdoor festival in St. Louis back in '75, really made me think about it.

 

Let's say, that John Rutsey stayed in the band for whatever reason (better health, musical styles didn't clash with Alex and Geddy), what would have become of Rush?

 

1 - Would they have "made it" to the level they eventually did?

 

I say no way... adding Neil was the key element that made Rush go the progressive route (which is what made them popular) with his lyrics and influences. Also, his drumming (much better than Rutsey) is one of the main things that early Rush fans loved about the band... I know people who, back in the 70s, would go to Rush concerts just to see Neil play.

 

2 - Or, would they have fizzled out on the mid-west touring circuit, eventually being pushed out by bands like Styx, Nugent and similar rock bands of the day? Let's face it, the first Rush album is NOTHING like the next four or five... or 18.

 

I couldn't imagine Rush without Neil. For starters, 2112 would never have happened... and that was THE album that really got them out of the shit storm they were in at the time.

[Snaked]

They would have been a *good* band, but not the RUSH we know and love.

And they wouldn't have lasted nearly as long as they have.

 

But remember, they got their first US opening gig before Neil even joined the band.. so they were getting exposure and I'm sure Mercury would have given them at least 2-3 more albums before dropping them. Let's face it, FBN and CoS didn't exactly light up the cash registers when they were released. Mercury was going to be patient with them, at least for a little while.

 

 

 

(amazing how different the music industry is today.. if any band had had the modest success RUSH had in the early days they would have been dropped VERY quickly)

[MMCXII]

Alex and Ged surely would've done something big. There was no stopping them they way they were such ferocious musicians.

Some of that would've rubbed off on Rutsey but they would be a completely different band.. Still great but less proggy and more hard rock.. I think they would've sounded like Mid 70's Zeppelin..

[Animate]

Geddy and Alex are talented, smart and were pretty driven. They would have almost certainly made a few more albums at least.

 

The flip question is if Neil would have ever been recorded as a drummer, or ever been a lyricist at all without Rush. I don't think so- I think he needed Geddy and Alex more then they needed him to have at least some professional career. Obviously, not due to his drumming but because he is so brilliant. Being brilliant can be a professional handicap when it comes to getting along with others, so it sort of took Geddy and Alex to allow him to shine.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Animate

[eshine]

Ged and Alex were exceptional and hungry young musicians back then, but all the talent and drive in the world means nothing if you have no chemistry as songwriters in a band.

 

Rutsey wasn't into it - and Ged and Alex wanted to stretch their legs. Neil came along in the nick of time and just happened to be a fericious and experienced young drummer who also loved to read and write quirky sci-fi shit. They wanted to jam and not write lyrics so they were like, "cool, you're our new drummer and lyricist - let's write Fly By Night! Cool - lets go tour. Cool, lets smoke a shit ton of hash and weed and write a sci-fi concept peice about a Necromancer and call it Carress of Steel!!! ..."uhm, why is our recordl label looking at us like we're crazy? What - they want us to write more short singles like from the first two albums?? Yeah - f**k that, let's write 2112 - all else fails and we go back to our day jobs...

 

The rest, shall we say, is history.

 

Had 2112 failed, that would have been the end - but the three of them had found a perfect storm of rebellion, abandon and the desire to push the boundaries of what Rock music should be.

 

As musicians and writers, each one of them brought a such skill to their craft that, when they put it all together - seemed designed by the Gods.

 

It was only after that album took off that the record company said - "okay guys, do your thing and we'll never bother you again."

 

Without Neil, Carress of Steel would not have happened. Without the failure and dissapointment of Carress of Steel, 2112 would not have happened.

 

Without 2112 - Rush would not have been given the creative freedom to write the music that has made them superstars.

 

So, no Neil = no 2112 = no Rush

 

:)

[peter_heijnen]

You could ask yourself another question: would neil have made it to that level if he hadn't met alex and geddy?

 

It's the three of them that makes the magic.

Edited March 30, 2013 by peter_heijnen

[Thunder Bay Rush]

Geddy and Alex are talented, smart and were pretty driven. They would have almost certainly made a few more albums at least.

 

The flip question is if Neil would have ever been recorded as a drummer, or ever been a lyricist at all without Rush. I don't think so- I think he needed Geddy and Alex more then they needed him to have at least some professional career. Obviously, not due to his drumming but because he is so brilliant. Being brilliant can be a professional handicap when it comes to getting along with others, so it sort of took Geddy and Alex to allow him to shine.

 

 

 

Hey, good point. From what history tells us and from Neil's own words, he was about ready to give up on being a professional musician and just play for fun. Good thing for him too, then, they he met up with the boys... Neil's dad during BTL Stage Doc... "A white Corvette pulled up in front of the farm equipment dealership and the guy asked me if he could Neil out for lunch to talk about auditioning for Rush."

 

Coool little story there. I always wondered though, how Ray Danniels had heard of Neil? Usually, when there's an audition situation, the person auditioning approaches the people who he is auditioning for, not the other way around.

[apetersvt]

m

 

Without Neil, Carress of Steel would not have happened. Without the failure and dissapointment of Carress of Steel, 2112 would not have happened.

 

 

Minor edit: Without the commercial failure and dissapoinment of Rush's greatest album, 2112 would not have happened.

[JohnnyBlaze]

Geddy and Alex are talented, smart and were pretty driven. They would have almost certainly made a few more albums at least.

 

The flip question is if Neil would have ever been recorded as a drummer, or ever been a lyricist at all without Rush. I don't think so- I think he needed Geddy and Alex more then they needed him to have at least some professional career. Obviously, not due to his drumming but because he is so brilliant. Being brilliant can be a professional handicap when it comes to getting along with others, so it sort of took Geddy and Alex to allow him to shine.

 

 

 

Hey, good point. From what history tells us and from Neil's own words, he was about ready to give up on being a professional musician and just play for fun. Good thing for him too, then, they he met up with the boys... Neil's dad during BTL Stage Doc... "A white Corvette pulled up in front of the farm equipment dealership and the guy asked me if he could Neil out for lunch to talk about auditioning for Rush."

 

Coool little story there. I always wondered though, how Ray Danniels had heard of Neil? Usually, when there's an audition situation, the person auditioning approaches the people who he is auditioning for, not the other way around.

Neil stated in an interview that one of his friends recommended him

[ShlappinDahBass]

m

Without Neil, Carress of Steel would not have happened. Without the failure and dissapointment of Carress of Steel, 2112 would not have happened.

 

 

Minor edit: Without the commercial failure and dissapoinment of Rush's greatest album, 2112 would not have happened.

 

I was going to say this, too. This is actually a pretty tough question. I feel if they would've had an okay drummer, they wouldn't be as big as they are now. I would think kind of an "under the radar" band but they have those one or two songs everyone has on their iPod.

[John V]

I am very happy and we are all very lucky these three came together.

[bluesbreaker]

Hi folks, new kid on the block here.

I have listened to Rush for a while now and can't stop listening to their late 70's and early 80's albums!

To me if Neil never met Ged and Alex, they may be less proggy, but most importantly, the lyrics won't be as interesting and thought-provoking as they are.

 

My 2 cents.

[rushgoober]

No.

 

That said, their debut is tremendously underrated.

[losingit2k]

I always wondered about this and seeing the pictures the other day of Rush (with Neil) playing an outdoor festival in St. Louis back in '75, really made me think about it.

 

Let's say, that John Rutsey stayed in the band for whatever reason (better health, musical styles didn't clash with Alex and Geddy), what would have become of Rush?

 

1 - Would they have "made it" to the level they eventually did?

 

I say no way... adding Neil was the key element that made Rush go the progressive route (which is what made them popular) with his lyrics and influences. Also, his drumming (much better than Rutsey) is one of the main things that early Rush fans loved about the band... I know people who, back in the 70s, would go to Rush concerts just to see Neil play.

 

2 - Or, would they have fizzled out on the mid-west touring circuit, eventually being pushed out by bands like Styx, Nugent and similar rock bands of the day? Let's face it, the first Rush album is NOTHING like the next four or five... or 18.

 

I couldn't imagine Rush without Neil. For starters, 2112 would never have happened... and that was THE album that really got them out of the shit storm they were in at the time.

 

I think they would have progressed much slower and eventually stopped in their tracks after 5 or 6 albums that would basically have sounded much like their first. I don't think albums like 2112, AFTK , or Hemispheres, would ever have came to light. Not to mention everything that followed. Lets face it, Geddy and Alex are the soul of this band but Neil is the Brain that has allowed it to happen. The best decision RUSH ever made was to go to The Professor early in their career.

 

:codger:

Edited April 5, 2013 by losingit2k

[ILSnwdog]

Alex + Geddy + Neil = synergy

 

They were good with Rutsey, but not great.

[JohnnyBlaze]

I always wondered about this and seeing the pictures the other day of Rush (with Neil) playing an outdoor festival in St. Louis back in '75, really made me think about it.

 

Let's say, that John Rutsey stayed in the band for whatever reason (better health, musical styles didn't clash with Alex and Geddy), what would have become of Rush?

 

1 - Would they have "made it" to the level they eventually did?

 

I say no way... adding Neil was the key element that made Rush go the progressive route (which is what made them popular) with his lyrics and influences. Also, his drumming (much better than Rutsey) is one of the main things that early Rush fans loved about the band... I know people who, back in the 70s, would go to Rush concerts just to see Neil play.

 

2 - Or, would they have fizzled out on the mid-west touring circuit, eventually being pushed out by bands like Styx, Nugent and similar rock bands of the day? Let's face it, the first Rush album is NOTHING like the next four or five... or 18.

 

I couldn't imagine Rush without Neil. For starters, 2112 would never have happened... and that was THE album that really got them out of the shit storm they were in at the time.

 

I think they would have progressed much slower and eventually stopped in their tracks after 5 or 6 albums that would basically have sounded much like their first. I don't think albums like 2112, AFTK , or Hemispheres, would ever have came to light. Not to mention everything that followed. Lets face it, Geddy and Alex are the soul of this band but Neil is the Brain that has allowed it to happen. The best decision RUSH ever made was to go to The Professor early in their career.

 

:codger:

I agree with almost everything here. However, I don't think they would've "...stopped in their tracks after 5 or 6 albums that would basically have sounded like their first". Who knows how many albums they would've made without Peart BUT I definitely don't think we would've had 5 or 6 more albums worth of What You're Doing or Finding My Way. Lee and Lifeson were already wanting to move away from the sound of that debut album. Look how different Fly By Night was.

[Jaminbenb]

I think they get through Fly By Night and fizzle...some of the stuff on that album was already written, but wouldn't have had the "umph" as it did when Neil came on board. If anything, they go a different direction, and become mediocre...but as someone else said up the page, it took the THREE of them to get to this level! I think on their own, you don't get any greatness like this!

[CygnusGal]

In this one of many possible worlds...

It is what it is...

 

All I really know is that it is, and always has been, about the power of the trio. It took Neil, Geddy and Alex to write CoS to put them "down the tubes" and force Rush's last stand of 2112. Rutsey's last stand was the debut album. FBN had an old song (In the End) where Neil has no songwriting credit, so presumably it was an old riff Geddy and Alex had been kicking around for a while. Without Neil, we'd have some great riffs with poorer drumming and lyrics (like Chemistry...ewww....Geddy, please give the pen back to Neil, your hands are full enough).

 

At this point in their career, they are all irreplaceable. I don't think they could tolerate another new guy.

[Jsteinrush]

Yes they would have made it. Drummer's are a dime a dozen. However, Rush did end up with a good one!

[RushFlyer2112]

Nooooo,Geddy and Alex would really never have made it with our beloved Neil!!!!

[driventotheedge]

The whole is always greater than the sum of the parts. IMO, the three created something they couldn't have necessarily done without the others. It's also true of Roger and Dave as well as John and Paul (off the top of my head). All were good as solo artists but better in their "main" bands. Edited April 6, 2013 by driventotheedge

[Thunder Bay Rush]

The whole is always greater than the sum of the parts. IMO, the three created something they couldn't have necessarily done without the others. It's also true of Roger and Dave as well as John and Paul (off the top of my head). All were good as solo artists but better in their "main" bands.

Yes, good point. Jimmy Page and Plante both put out solo albums that were horrible. So, did David Lee Roth... he was good with the early VH, but on his own...??

[Todem]

Hard to say.....but my answer would be no.

 

No Neil......Rush would have faded away IMO.

 

They needed that third brilliant player and creator. The sun and moon aligned and Neil brought it together with his insane drumming and thoughtful and visual lyrics.

 

Rush is Alex, Geddy and the new guy.

 

Period.

[Freedom]

I would say that they would not be where they are today if it weren't for Neil.

 

Don't get me wrong, I love their early stuff, but they wouldn't have been pushed to a more progressive sound reminiscent of 2112 without Neil. Not only that, I often wonder what their songs would have lyrically as well without Neil.

[kooma]

Of course they WOULD...http://1.1.1.1/bmi/www.therushforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/wtf.gif