Here's the problem...*I* think... *SPOILERS*

[losingit2k]

QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 4 2012, 11:48 AM)

The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band. The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album. Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are.

Agreed! First let me say I Love this setlist expect for the use of Working Man. Now that said, during the past few tours they have made us expect to hear at least 6 staples and at least 1 to 2 Epics. This current tour has absolutley no Epics and only 3 staples and one of them (TSOR) is on shaky grounds. Most fans, casual, die-hards, and newbies included have grown to expect at least 6 of these songs since the T4E tour. We have been accustomed to hearing:

 

Tom Sawyer, The Spirit of Radio, Limelight, Freewill, 2112 O/T, YYZ, Closer to the Heart, and and at least one Epic.

 

The lack of the latter has left many saying

 

At this point I would only make a few changes to the setlist. First make TSOR and 2112 permanent fixtures in the Encore. Secondly, drop Working Man permanently and replace with any other Epic preferably Jacobs Ladder, Xanadu , Natural Science or even The Camera Eye again. Finally add Limelight after The Analog Kid. Oh, One more thing don't make the fans have to choose between the gems, have The Body Electric, Middletown Dreams, and Manhattan Project in the sets permanently, its easy all you have to do is to place Middletown Dreams after Territories (The first set is too short anyway). Additionally, keep Manhattan Project permanently in its slot during the second set. Play around with Red Sector A/ Dreamline as alternates.

 

Honestly, they should never touch TS, TSOR , LL or 2112. These songs are essentials at a RUSH show now. Additionally, Just the addition of one Epic would change the setlist for the best.

 

Below is the setlist I would like to see: Its very realistic:

 

Set 1:

 

Subdivisions

The Big Money

Force 10

Grand Design

The Body Electric (Made Permanent)

Territories

Middletown Dreams (Added and Made Permanent)

Bravado/ The Pass

The Analog Kid (Moved down 2 Slots)

Limelight (Added)

Where's My Thing?

Far Cry

 

 

Set 2:

 

Caravan

BU2B (Replaced Wish them Well)

Clockwork Angels

The Anarchist

Carnies

Halo Effect

Seven Cities of Gold (Made Permanent)

The Wreckers

Headlong Flight

Manhattamn Project (Made permanent)

The Percussor (drum solo)

Red Sector A/ Dreamline (New Alternates)

YYZ

Xanadu (Replaces Working Man)

 

Encore:

The Spirit of Radio (Made Permanent)

Tom Sawyer

2112 O/T/F

 

 

Edited October 4, 2012 by losingit2k

[drgrendel]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Oct 4 2012, 01:37 PM)

QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 4 2012, 11:48 AM) The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band. The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album. Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are. Agreed! First let me say I Love this setlist expect for the use of Working Man. Now that said, during the past few tours they have made us expect to hear at least 6 staples and at least 1 to 2 Epics. This current tour has absolutley no Epics and only 3 staples and one of them (TSOR) is on shaky grounds. Most fans, casual, die-hards, and newbies included have grown to expect at least 6 of these songs since the T4E tour. We have been accustomed to hearing:   Tom Sawyer, The Spirit of Radio, Limelight, Freewill, 2112 O/T, YYZ, Closer to the Heart, and and at least one Epic.   The lack of the latter has left many saying   At this point I would only make a few changes to the setlist. First make TSOR and 2112 permanent fixtures in the Encore. Secondly, drop Working Man permanently and replace with any other Epic preferably Jacobs Ladder, Xanadu or Natural Science. Finally drop Far Cry, how ever much I love that song, and replace with Limelight. Oh One more thing don't make the fans have to choose between the gems, have The Body Electric, Middletown Dreams, and Manhattan Project in the sets permanently, its easy all you have to do is to place Middletown Dreams before Bravado/ The Pass (The first set is a song short anyway). Additionally, keep Manhattan Project permanently in its slot during the second set. Play around with Red Sector A/ Dreamline as alternates.   Honestly, they should never touch TS, TSOR , LL or 2112. These songs are essentials at a RUSH show now. Additionally, Just the addition of one Epic would change the setlist for the best.   Below is the setlist I would like to see: Its very realistic:   Set 1:   Subdivisions The Big Money Force 10 Grand Design The Body Electric (Made Permanent) Territories Middletown Dreams (Made Permanent)Bravado/ The Pass (Moved up one slot) The Analog Kid (Moved down 2 Slots) Where's My Thing? Limelight (Replaces Far Cry)   Set 2:   Caravan BU2B (Replaced Wish them Well) Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Halo Effect Seven Cities of Gold (Made Permanent) The Wreckers Headlong Flight Manhattamn Project (Made permanent) Red Sector A/ Dreamline (New Alternates) YYZ Xanadu (Replaces Working Man)   Encore: The Spirit of Radio (Made Permanent) Tom Sawyer 2112 O/T/F     Love it!

[losingit2k]

[ReRushed]

Well, I know they've always

Told you selfishness was wrong

Yet it was for me not you

I came to write this song

[Mystic Rythm]

QUOTE (OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan @ Oct 4 2012, 04:26 AM)

Still starting threads about this?

Yes and I have a sneaking suspision you're still reading threads about this............. just saying my friend, just saying.

[Mystic Rythm]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 4 2012, 10:16 AM)

QUOTE (Gemari77 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:38 AM) The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs. That's going to happen with older bands that are still making new music, still experimenting, still striving to keep their careers fresh and exciting.   One can buy tickets to a KISS concert a year in advance and know exactly what will be played. Can't do that with Rush or any other band that's still putting out new music.

[rushgoober]

[The Cat 3]

I completely understand ALifeson85's point.

 

This will the 35th year I've been seeing this band live and I'm at that point where I really don't care what they play.

 

Of course, I have my "dream set list", but I'm always just happy to be seeing them play live again and that transcends my song wish list.

 

I know and appreciate all phases of their recording career and will sing along to whatever they choose to play.

 

That being said, and back to the ALifeson85's point, I completely understand the idea of the "casual Rush fan" and them (understandably) wanting this (or any "classic rock") band sticking to the familiar.

[ALifeson85]

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 11:24 AM)

CASUAL fan TRUE fan HARDCORE Fan

"Casual" fan = Someone who only knows Rush, solely because of the songs they hear on the radio, but don't really bother to dig deeper into their catalogue.

 

"True"/"Hardcore" fan = Someone who owns just about, if not ALL of the band's music, and would recognize every (or just about every) song, if it were played to them.

 

Edited October 4, 2012 by ALifeson85

[drgrendel]

QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 4 2012, 04:09 PM)

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 11:24 AM) CASUAL fan TRUE fan HARDCORE Fan "Casual" fan = Someone who only knows Rush, solely because of the songs they hear on the radio, but don't really bother to dig deeper into their catalogue.   "True"/"Hardcore" fan = Someone who owns just about, if not ALL of the band's music, and would recognize every (or just about every) song, if it were played to them.   Ok...thank you...put me down as a Hardcore fan that was a "lil" disappointed with the CA Tour.

[ALifeson85]

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 03:12 PM)

QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 4 2012, 04:09 PM) QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 11:24 AM) CASUAL fan TRUE fan HARDCORE Fan "Casual" fan = Someone who only knows Rush, solely because of the songs they hear on the radio, but don't really bother to dig deeper into their catalogue.   "True"/"Hardcore" fan = Someone who owns just about, if not ALL of the band's music, and would recognize every (or just about every) song, if it were played to them.   Ok...thank you...put me down as a Hardcore fan that was a "lil" disappointed with the CA Tour.   Actually - let me rephrase the "Casual" definition...Someone who enjoys Rush's music, but only from the hits they hear on the radio - but never really bother to dig deeper into the band's catalogue.   That sounds better.

[hunter]

QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 4 2012, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 11:24 AM) CASUAL fan TRUE fan HARDCORE Fan "Casual" fan = Someone who only knows Rush, solely because of the songs they hear on the radio, but don't really bother to dig deeper into their catalogue.   "True"/"Hardcore" fan = Someone who owns just about, if not ALL of the band's music, and would recognize every (or just about every) song, if it were played to them.   Casual, Has heard Tom Sawyer. True, Knows Tom Sawyer air drum part lick for lick. Hardcore owns the bobble heads.

[gingermart]

i am happy and pleased to just be able to see my favourite band live,what ever songs they play.

 

I am a hardcore fan but do not own any bobble heads

 

I do have songs that I would like to hear live but if they don't its not the end of the world.

[OGr8imL84AD8inF8sBlackSedan]

[crazygeo]

 

"This is a f*ckin rock-'n-roll concert, not a f*ckin teaparty!

[Cygnus 2112]

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 4 2012, 07:16 AM)

QUOTE (Gemari77 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:38 AM) The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs. That's going to happen with older bands that are still making new music, still experimenting, still striving to keep their careers fresh and exciting.   One can buy tickets to a KISS concert a year in advance and know exactly what will be played. Can't do that with Rush or any other band that's still putting out new music. Kiss is releasing a new album on tuesday.

[losingit2k]

[Principled Man]

QUOTE (billybobjoe1881 @ Oct 4 2012, 08:31 PM)

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 4 2012, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (Gemari77 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:38 AM) The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs. That's going to happen with older bands that are still making new music, still experimenting, still striving to keep their careers fresh and exciting.   One can buy tickets to a KISS concert a year in advance and know exactly what will be played. Can't do that with Rush or any other band that's still putting out new music. Kiss is releasing a new album on tuesday. Have you seen the setlist for their current tour? The very large majority consists of their classic songs from the 70's....just like it always does.

[DBJetsman]

When I pay $150 for a ticket to my 1st Rush show ever, I better hear some damn hits!

 

At least throw me the Red Barchetta bone...

[Silas Lang]

Goober,

 

I totally get what you're saying about Rush being your band and all and sure anyone has the right to express their disappointment or disenchantment about anything. I wasn't referring to you specifically but there are some longtime fans who feel entitled to the right to demand and expect certain things from the band. I can't think of another rational explanation for the outright anger and venom and vicious attacks on the band about the current setlist....Can you? Admittedly it's a pretty small number of folks who feel that way and it doesn't really concern me very much, but you gotta admit they seem to take it way too personally.

[J2112YYZ]

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Oct 4 2012, 12:37 PM)

QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 4 2012, 11:48 AM) The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band. The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album. Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are. Agreed! First let me say I Love this setlist expect for the use of Working Man. Now that said, during the past few tours they have made us expect to hear at least 6 staples and at least 1 to 2 Epics. This current tour has absolutley no Epics and only 3 staples and one of them (TSOR) is on shaky grounds. Most fans, casual, die-hards, and newbies included have grown to expect at least 6 of these songs since the T4E tour. We have been accustomed to hearing:   Tom Sawyer, The Spirit of Radio, Limelight, Freewill, 2112 O/T, YYZ, Closer to the Heart, and and at least one Epic.   The lack of the latter has left many saying   At this point I would only make a few changes to the setlist. First make TSOR and 2112 permanent fixtures in the Encore. Secondly, drop Working Man permanently and replace with any other Epic preferably Jacobs Ladder, Xanadu , Natural Science or even The Camera Eye again. Finally add Limelight after The Analog Kid. Oh, One more thing don't make the fans have to choose between the gems, have The Body Electric, Middletown Dreams, and Manhattan Project in the sets permanently, its easy all you have to do is to place Middletown Dreams after Territories (The first set is too short anyway). Additionally, keep Manhattan Project permanently in its slot during the second set. Play around with Red Sector A/ Dreamline as alternates.   Honestly, they should never touch TS, TSOR , LL or 2112. These songs are essentials at a RUSH show now. Additionally, Just the addition of one Epic would change the setlist for the best.   Below is the setlist I would like to see: Its very realistic:   Set 1:   Subdivisions The Big Money Force 10 Grand Design The Body Electric (Made Permanent) Territories Middletown Dreams (Added and Made Permanent) Bravado/ The Pass The Analog Kid (Moved down 2 Slots) Limelight (Added) Where's My Thing? Far Cry     Set 2:   Caravan BU2B (Replaced Wish them Well) Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Halo Effect Seven Cities of Gold (Made Permanent) The Wreckers Headlong Flight Manhattamn Project (Made permanent) The Percussor (drum solo) Red Sector A/ Dreamline (New Alternates) YYZ Xanadu (Replaces Working Man)   Encore: The Spirit of Radio (Made Permanent) Tom Sawyer 2112 O/T/F     Nice, my personal tweeking of the current set would be something like this:   Set One:   Subdivisions The Big Money Force Ten Grand Designs The Body Electric Territorries New World Man The Analog Kid Bravado Where's My Thing? Limelight   Set Two:   Caravan Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Red Barchetta Seven Cities Of Gold The Weckers Headlong Flight The Garden Manhattan Project Xanadu Hemispheres: Prelude/YYZ The Spirit Of Radio   Tom Sawyer Overture/Temples/Grand Finale   With the first set only being ten songs I figured adding in NWM which is short wouldn't hurt the time of the set too bad. Plus, it fits the whole 80s theme of the first set and after playing three rarely played deep cuts there are a lot of people in the crowd who could use a wake up call by hearing a song they know. Far Cry just seems out of place and I feel it's better to end the first set with a big song and Limelight fits that perfectly.   It's good that they're playing a lot of new stuff but playing it for an hour straight isn't a good idea. There's a lot of people going to the shows who aren't familiar enough with CA or haven't even bought it at all. That's why throwing something like Red Barchetta in the middle or the new stuff will help keep a lot of people from tuning out due to hearing a lot of material they're not familiar with. Adding in Xanadu and Prelude is just a way to acknowledge a part of their career they're ignoring this tour. Like others have said there would be less bitching if the 70s stuff was represented a little better. We know that Geddy can't sing the bulk of that material anymore but AFTK and Hemispheres should at least be represented every tour. They're too important to the bands history and too loved by the fanbase for them to not be doing at least a little something from them.

[drgrendel]

QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 5 2012, 09:21 AM)

QUOTE (losingit2k @ Oct 4 2012, 12:37 PM) QUOTE (J2112YYZ @ Oct 4 2012, 11:48 AM) The OP brings up some good points about how concert goers get used to hearing the hits live because a lot of calssic rock bands do just that tour after tour. But I think Rush is a little guilty of letting fans think that they'll be playing the hits just as much as any other classic rock band. The reason I say this is because of the setlists they've done for the VT, R30 and TM tours. Three out of the last four tours before the current one started have had setlists that have a good amount of hits in them. Especially with playing all of MP last tour, it's not unreasonable for some fans to think that they'll have another tour where the big songs will be featured as opposed to the new album. Now obviously these "fans" aren't aware that Rush isn't a nostalgia band like the ones you've mentioned. But most of the setlists they've done over the last decade of touring can easily lead a lot of people to believe that they are. Agreed! First let me say I Love this setlist expect for the use of Working Man. Now that said, during the past few tours they have made us expect to hear at least 6 staples and at least 1 to 2 Epics. This current tour has absolutley no Epics and only 3 staples and one of them (TSOR) is on shaky grounds. Most fans, casual, die-hards, and newbies included have grown to expect at least 6 of these songs since the T4E tour. We have been accustomed to hearing:   Tom Sawyer, The Spirit of Radio, Limelight, Freewill, 2112 O/T, YYZ, Closer to the Heart, and and at least one Epic.   The lack of the latter has left many saying   At this point I would only make a few changes to the setlist. First make TSOR and 2112 permanent fixtures in the Encore. Secondly, drop Working Man permanently and replace with any other Epic preferably Jacobs Ladder, Xanadu , Natural Science or even The Camera Eye again. Finally add Limelight after The Analog Kid. Oh, One more thing don't make the fans have to choose between the gems, have The Body Electric, Middletown Dreams, and Manhattan Project in the sets permanently, its easy all you have to do is to place Middletown Dreams after Territories (The first set is too short anyway). Additionally, keep Manhattan Project permanently in its slot during the second set. Play around with Red Sector A/ Dreamline as alternates.   Honestly, they should never touch TS, TSOR , LL or 2112. These songs are essentials at a RUSH show now. Additionally, Just the addition of one Epic would change the setlist for the best.   Below is the setlist I would like to see: Its very realistic:   Set 1:   Subdivisions The Big Money Force 10 Grand Design The Body Electric (Made Permanent) Territories Middletown Dreams (Added and Made Permanent) Bravado/ The Pass The Analog Kid (Moved down 2 Slots) Limelight (Added) Where's My Thing? Far Cry     Set 2:   Caravan BU2B (Replaced Wish them Well) Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Halo Effect Seven Cities of Gold (Made Permanent) The Wreckers Headlong Flight Manhattamn Project (Made permanent) The Percussor (drum solo) Red Sector A/ Dreamline (New Alternates) YYZ Xanadu (Replaces Working Man)   Encore: The Spirit of Radio (Made Permanent) Tom Sawyer 2112 O/T/F     Nice, my personal tweeking of the current set would be something like this:   Set One:   Subdivisions The Big Money Force Ten Grand Designs The Body Electric Territorries New World Man The Analog Kid Bravado Where's My Thing? Limelight   Set Two:   Caravan Clockwork Angels The Anarchist Carnies Red Barchetta Seven Cities Of Gold The Weckers Headlong Flight The Garden Manhattan Project Xanadu Hemispheres: Prelude/YYZ The Spirit Of Radio   Tom Sawyer Overture/Temples/Grand Finale   With the first set only being ten songs I figured adding in NWM which is short wouldn't hurt the time of the set too bad. Plus, it fits the whole 80s theme of the first set and after playing three rarely played deep cuts there are a lot of people in the crowd who could use a wake up call by hearing a song they know. Far Cry just seems out of place and I feel it's better to end the first set with a big song and Limelight fits that perfectly.   It's good that they're playing a lot of new stuff but playing it for an hour straight isn't a good idea. There's a lot of people going to the shows who aren't familiar enough with CA or haven't even bought it at all. That's why throwing something like Red Barchetta in the middle or the new stuff will help keep a lot of people from tuning out due to hearing a lot of material they're not familiar with. Adding in Xanadu and Prelude is just a way to acknowledge a part of their career they're ignoring this tour. Like others have said there would be less bitching if the 70s stuff was represented a little better. We know that Geddy can't sing the bulk of that material anymore but AFTK and Hemispheres should at least be represented every tour. They're too important to the bands history and too loved by the fanbase for them to not be doing at least a little something from them.   I agree with your comments regarding the new material. The new material could have been "sprinkled" throughout the set without losing any sort of flow. Yes it is a "concept" album, but not so much of one that songs had to be played back-to-back to make any sort of impact.   I personally would have gone to a second show on this tour if they would have spread the CA material out over the course of the entire show.   I really hope that on future tours they refrain from doing that.

Edited October 5, 2012 by drgrendel

[drgrendel]

QUOTE (billybobjoe1881 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:31 PM)

QUOTE (Workaholic Man @ Oct 4 2012, 07:16 AM) QUOTE (Gemari77 @ Oct 4 2012, 09:38 AM) The problem comes in when tickets are purchased months in advance, and you have no idea that the band is going to ignore almost all of their most well known songs. That's going to happen with older bands that are still making new music, still experimenting, still striving to keep their careers fresh and exciting.   One can buy tickets to a KISS concert a year in advance and know exactly what will be played. Can't do that with Rush or any other band that's still putting out new music. Kiss is releasing a new album on tuesday. From what I am hearing...it is not too bad at all. I bet KISS sells-out all over the place after this release.

[ALifeson85]

QUOTE (ALifeson85 @ Oct 4 2012, 12:09 PM)

QUOTE (drgrendel @ Oct 4 2012, 11:24 AM) CASUAL fan TRUE fan HARDCORE Fan "Casual" fan = Someone who only knows Rush, solely because of the songs they hear on the radio, but don't really bother to dig deeper into their catalogue.   "True"/"Hardcore" fan = Someone who owns just about, if not ALL of the band's music, and would recognize every (or just about every) song, if it were played to them.   Casual, Has heard Tom Sawyer. True, Knows Tom Sawyer air drum part lick for lick. Hardcore owns the bobble heads.   Pretty much! lol

Edited October 5, 2012 by ALifeson85

[Presto-digitation]

f*ck the casual fan.

 

Rush needs to play whatever material that's interesting enough to make them want to tour again. Believe me, if they'd stuck to 90% the same setlist for the last 20 years, they'd have quit outright 15 years ago out of abject BOREDOM.

 

The band needs to be inspired FIRST AND FOREMOST. Nothing else can happen if that doesn't.

 

The whole "impact" of this is so overstated. Rush goes out, people scream "how could they..." (not play this? play so much new material? etc) and the very next tour Rush goes out and plays in front of similar-sized crowds and people say it all over again. It really doesn't impact attendance and if it bothered you (them, whomever) so much, you'd stop going and concert attendance numbers would rightly plummet.

 

That's how you send a message to a band; not by saying "oh this sucks" and then going again. Rush's tour numbers surely vary SOME from tour-to-tour, but nothing so drastic (in the negative) that it's become cost prohibitive because they can only put 3K into every show. I can't speak for the actual figures, but I've got to guess it hasn't fallen off tremendously after Neil came back. Good enough to get them back on the road the next go 'round and that's the point about making an impact with one's dissatisfaction.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Presto-digitation